Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

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OTT
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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by OTT »

Silvester did very well for that kick chase back and how he stepped the chaser.
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riocard911
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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by riocard911 »

Serb wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 9:04 pm
Tommy O’Brien has definitely been cutting his own hair during this pandemic. Shocking stuff.
Maybe he could give Jack Dunne a hand cutting his - even more shocking stuff, IMO!!! :wink:

Jonny tight lips
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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Jonny tight lips »

Yeah, Tommy was always going to go to 12 once Silvester came on but sure Coms we’re delighted with him coming over from the right wing for his second try 😂

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Blueberry »

Good Leinstertainment, Leo got to bring on some kids from the local park, couple of ball boys and the lad who cuts the grass and it still all hummed and ticked along nicely.

Seriously though, I know Zebre were poor but our tempo and attitude brill and a testament to the group and coaches. Ruddock superb, great to see Leavy back and Harry Byrne coming along nicely. Ed Sheeran looks to have serious potential and the production line continues. Scott P has some engine.....

Anyway plenty for Munster to be shopping for......

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Ruckedtobits »

No doubt either Xanthippe or Hugonaut have already delved into the matter, but re-watching this morning it struck me that that may have been the tallest ever starting pack that Leinster have fielded, even with the presence of Scott Penny.

Certainly with Peter Dooley and Dan Sheehan in the front-row and Dev & Ross Molony in the second and Rhys and Josh Murphy in the back-row, this lot covered a lot of the skyline. It was particularly evident when we defended lineouts and in the subsequent mauls- our body heights were too high to be truly effective on some occasions. Something that Leo, Hugh Hogan and Robyn McBride will no doubt be working on.

But what a lot of genuine ball carriers there are among that lot. Dooley, Sheehan, Molony, Murphy, Ruddock and Penny are genuinely dynamic and Dev & Bent both inflict serious impact on opposing tacklers. Given that the first six all demonstrated the ability to change their feet, either before or just after receiving the ball, we are certainly developing a range of skills to unlocking defences other than through slick backline moves.

The manner in which McGrath and Byrne passed to runners first, second and third out and that almost every receiver was able to change his angle from inside, at, or outside the opposing defender must make defending us a nightmare. Thus far, four, or perhaps five, of that pack are also adept at offloading to close support runners on either side. Judging by the exhibition of that skill from the Kiwi and Aussie players over the past two weekends, this is becoming the latest top-line skill expected at the highest level.

There were far too many handling errors to rave about the overall performance but it certainly was interesting to note that the majority of them were in the first quarter of the game. Despite the tempo which the game was played at our error count seemed to decrease as the game wore on. That a real tribute to the S &C staff and the appetite of the Squad for hard work.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 9:27 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 8:39 am
elephantman wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 10:05 pm


Haha, no chance Penny will play for Munster.
You'd hope they'd back Hodnet at 7 otherwise... it can't be ruled out.
I would like and hope that Munster will back the players that are currently on their books, but it does look inevitable that Leinster will lose at least 1 if not 2 of their international opensides to another province.

If Leavy, Connors and JVF are all fit, it is likely that 2 of those will not even make the match day squads in the big games.
I don’t know the players personally, but I would imagine that the all have aspirations of being a first choice player, not only for Leinster, but also Ireland, and playing against Zebre and in the A games will not help their cause.

Throw Penny into the mix, along with the next guy behind him, and a player runs the risk of their career passing them by.

Massive credit to Leinster on this one. Ireland has produced so few top 7s with SOB being the only one since Wally, and although none of these are at that level yet, it looks like Ireland could be well stocked for a few years.
It's not "inevitable" at all, when it has been shown over and over again that Leinster players are happy to be in one of the best environments in world rugby. Even Bryan Byrne, in a recent interview was saying how he wished to stay at Leinster and was ready to sign a new contract despite being 3rd/4th choice hooker. As I'm sure you know, not being first choice for Leinster does not mean you won't get into the national side and I'm sure Leo and co will be pointing out to their lads how players have damaged their international careers by leaving.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by hugonaut »

I was very happy to see Luke engaging the fringe defense and making lots of darts. It has always been one of the strongest parts of his game, but he has moved away from it over the last two years to become a more 'orthodox' scrum-half.

He had 9 runs with the ball in 56 mins last night – in his 14 appearances [769 mins] in the 2019-20 season, he made 63 runs. Obviously Zebre were absolute garbage and it was never going to be a game where we had to rely on tactical box-kicking to get us out of iffy positions, but it was really good to see him play what he saw in front of him and play with a lot of confidence and brio.

From my perspective, Luke is more Boss than Reddan. I know those two weren't exact opposites, but they were very dissimilar players playing the same position at the same time. Luke is a superb defender, very quick over the first five metres, very strong, nuggety and combative and has a great break and a great nose for when it's on – he has scored 31 tries for Leinster in 130 appearances, compared to Bossy's 14 tries in 133 games and Reddan's 6 tries in 140 games.

I think he has been trying to play more like Reddan over the last couple of seasons, more of a passing scrum-half who doesn't take as much contact and is always there to service the ruck. When you look at how successful we have been over the last two seasons, it's hard to be too critical of that. We've won so many games and a couple of trophies, and he has improved his skillset in terms of passing and box-kicking. But in almost every case if a player is playing better himself, the team benefits from that. That Reddan-esque style doesn't play to Luke's strengths. I think he should continue to play a game that comes more naturally to him – more physical, more decisive, faster.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by wixfjord »

hugonaut wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 2:45 pm
I was very happy to see Luke engaging the fringe defense and making lots of darts. It has always been one of the strongest parts of his game, but he has moved away from it over the last two years to become a more 'orthodox' scrum-half.

He had 9 runs with the ball in 56 mins last night – in his 14 appearances [769 mins] in the 2019-20 season, he made 63 runs. Obviously Zebre were absolute garbage and it was never going to be a game where we had to rely on tactical box-kicking to get us out of iffy positions, but it was really good to see him play what he saw in front of him and play with a lot of confidence and brio.

From my perspective, Luke is more Boss than Reddan. I know those two weren't exact opposites, but they were very dissimilar players playing the same position at the same time. Luke is a superb defender, very quick over the first five metres, very strong, nuggety and combative and has a great break and a great nose for when it's on – he has scored 31 tries for Leinster in 130 appearances, compared to Bossy's 14 tries in 133 games and Reddan's 6 tries in 140 games.

I think he has been trying to play more like Reddan over the last couple of seasons, more of a passing scrum-half who doesn't take as much contact and is always there to service the ruck. When you look at how successful we have been over the last two seasons, it's hard to be too critical of that. We've won so many games and a couple of trophies, and he has improved his skillset in terms of passing and box-kicking. But in almost every case if a player is playing better himself, the team benefits from that. That Reddan-esque style doesn't play to Luke's strengths. I think he should continue to play a game that comes more naturally to him – more physical, more decisive, faster.
Was just about to post something exactly like this (albeit far less eloquently!).

Luke looked waaay more comfortable and confident last night playing that type of game (which as you say was very similar to how Boss used to play, almost a fourth back row).

When you look back at some of Luke's best games over the last few years (Treviso away and Lyon at home last season come to mind) he's been playing this 'darting' style and trying to offload.

I wonder is this a reflection of the opposition or is it actually a tactical change that we're using (along with more offloads in general) to change up our attacking game?

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munster#1
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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by munster#1 »

Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 1:53 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 9:27 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 8:39 am


You'd hope they'd back Hodnet at 7 otherwise... it can't be ruled out.
I would like and hope that Munster will back the players that are currently on their books, but it does look inevitable that Leinster will lose at least 1 if not 2 of their international opensides to another province.

If Leavy, Connors and JVF are all fit, it is likely that 2 of those will not even make the match day squads in the big games.
I don’t know the players personally, but I would imagine that the all have aspirations of being a first choice player, not only for Leinster, but also Ireland, and playing against Zebre and in the A games will not help their cause.

Throw Penny into the mix, along with the next guy behind him, and a player runs the risk of their career passing them by.

Massive credit to Leinster on this one. Ireland has produced so few top 7s with SOB being the only one since Wally, and although none of these are at that level yet, it looks like Ireland could be well stocked for a few years.
It's not "inevitable" at all, when it has been shown over and over again that Leinster players are happy to be in one of the best environments in world rugby. Even Bryan Byrne, in a recent interview was saying how he wished to stay at Leinster and was ready to sign a new contract despite being 3rd/4th choice hooker. As I'm sure you know, not being first choice for Leinster does not mean you won't get into the national side and I'm sure Leo and co will be pointing out to their lads how players have damaged their international careers by leaving.
Byrne is probably a bad example to use. He may have had aspirations to play for Ireland, but I’m sure he was sensible to realise that that was not in his cards in the near future.

If Leinster can manage to keep 3 international 7s happy, then massive credit to them, but you would have to question their decision if they d decide to stay.

7 is not like prop, hooker or the half backs. Generally if a 7 is not starting, they are unlikely to even make the bench.
Leinster have 3 7s which would be safe to define as internationals, I personally would be surprised if all 3 stay with Leinster long term.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by wixfjord »

Impressed with Sheehan’s throwing last night I must say. Lovely flat action. I assume this is one of the benefits of being a taller hooker with more power.

Is that something that’s recognised as a strength of his?

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 3:34 pm
Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 1:53 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 9:27 am

I would like and hope that Munster will back the players that are currently on their books, but it does look inevitable that Leinster will lose at least 1 if not 2 of their international opensides to another province.

If Leavy, Connors and JVF are all fit, it is likely that 2 of those will not even make the match day squads in the big games.
I don’t know the players personally, but I would imagine that the all have aspirations of being a first choice player, not only for Leinster, but also Ireland, and playing against Zebre and in the A games will not help their cause.

Throw Penny into the mix, along with the next guy behind him, and a player runs the risk of their career passing them by.

Massive credit to Leinster on this one. Ireland has produced so few top 7s with SOB being the only one since Wally, and although none of these are at that level yet, it looks like Ireland could be well stocked for a few years.
It's not "inevitable" at all, when it has been shown over and over again that Leinster players are happy to be in one of the best environments in world rugby. Even Bryan Byrne, in a recent interview was saying how he wished to stay at Leinster and was ready to sign a new contract despite being 3rd/4th choice hooker. As I'm sure you know, not being first choice for Leinster does not mean you won't get into the national side and I'm sure Leo and co will be pointing out to their lads how players have damaged their international careers by leaving.
Byrne is probably a bad example to use. He may have had aspirations to play for Ireland, but I’m sure he was sensible to realise that that was not in his cards in the near future.

If Leinster can manage to keep 3 international 7s happy, then massive credit to them, but you would have to question their decision if they d decide to stay.

7 is not like prop, hooker or the half backs. Generally if a 7 is not starting, they are unlikely to even make the bench.
Leinster have 3 7s which would be safe to define as internationals, I personally would be surprised if all 3 stay with Leinster long term.
Of course they can keep them happy, what Leinster player has actually gone to the IRFU and demanded a move to another province recently? I certainly cant think of any. Connors was nowhere a year ago and was rumoured to be joining Connacht, now he is putting in a motm performance in the 6n and he's certainly not a guaranteed starter. I'd love to know what Jordi Murphy is thinking about all this.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by ronk »

Salanoa

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Dave Cahill »

Connors playing for Ireland, and playing so well, guarantees that at least one of the 7s will be moved. Indeed, it would be negligent of Farrell if it weren't the case.
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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by munster#1 »

Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:35 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 3:34 pm
Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 1:53 pm
It's not "inevitable" at all, when it has been shown over and over again that Leinster players are happy to be in one of the best environments in world rugby. Even Bryan Byrne, in a recent interview was saying how he wished to stay at Leinster and was ready to sign a new contract despite being 3rd/4th choice hooker. As I'm sure you know, not being first choice for Leinster does not mean you won't get into the national side and I'm sure Leo and co will be pointing out to their lads how players have damaged their international careers by leaving.
Byrne is probably a bad example to use. He may have had aspirations to play for Ireland, but I’m sure he was sensible to realise that that was not in his cards in the near future.

If Leinster can manage to keep 3 international 7s happy, then massive credit to them, but you would have to question their decision if they d decide to stay.

7 is not like prop, hooker or the half backs. Generally if a 7 is not starting, they are unlikely to even make the bench.
Leinster have 3 7s which would be safe to define as internationals, I personally would be surprised if all 3 stay with Leinster long term.
Of course they can keep them happy, what Leinster player has actually gone to the IRFU and demanded a move to another province recently? I certainly cant think of any. Connors was nowhere a year ago and was rumoured to be joining Connacht, now he is putting in a motm performance in the 6n and he's certainly not a guaranteed starter. I'd love to know what Jordi Murphy is thinking about all this.
Well there have been a fair few players who have left Leinster to join other provinces of late, even taking out Carberry and Salanoa, even if the truth on the latter is unclear. So not sure where you are going with that one?

Only time will tell. I will watch with interest to se how this one pans out. Barring injury I can’t see Leinster retaining the services of all 3, but I do not have a crystal ball.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by ronk »

Dave Cahill wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:38 pm
Connors playing for Ireland, and playing so well, guarantees that at least one of the 7s will be moved. Indeed, it would be negligent of Farrell if it weren't the case.
7s have a shocking attrition rate. Leinster were able to manage 3 international 7s at the same time in SOB, Murphy and vdF. 4 during the overlap with Leavy. Moving did nothing for Murphy and hence nothing for Ireland.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:55 pm
Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:35 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Byrne is probably a bad example to use. He may have had aspirations to play for Ireland, but I’m sure he was sensible to realise that that was not in his cards in the near future.

If Leinster can manage to keep 3 international 7s happy, then massive credit to them, but you would have to question their decision if they d decide to stay.

7 is not like prop, hooker or the half backs. Generally if a 7 is not starting, they are unlikely to even make the bench.
Leinster have 3 7s which would be safe to define as internationals, I personally would be surprised if all 3 stay with Leinster long term.
Of course they can keep them happy, what Leinster player has actually gone to the IRFU and demanded a move to another province recently? I certainly cant think of any. Connors was nowhere a year ago and was rumoured to be joining Connacht, now he is putting in a motm performance in the 6n and he's certainly not a guaranteed starter. I'd love to know what Jordi Murphy is thinking about all this.
Well there have been a fair few players who have left Leinster to join other provinces of late, even taking out Carberry and Salanoa, even if the truth on the latter is unclear. So not sure where you are going with that one?

Only time will tell. I will watch with interest to se how this one pans out. Barring injury I can’t see Leinster retaining the services of all 3, but I do not have a crystal ball.
They asked the IRFU to push the move? I never said nobody had left, read what was wrote.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by munster#1 »

Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 6:50 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:55 pm
Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:35 pm

Of course they can keep them happy, what Leinster player has actually gone to the IRFU and demanded a move to another province recently? I certainly cant think of any. Connors was nowhere a year ago and was rumoured to be joining Connacht, now he is putting in a motm performance in the 6n and he's certainly not a guaranteed starter. I'd love to know what Jordi Murphy is thinking about all this.
Well there have been a fair few players who have left Leinster to join other provinces of late, even taking out Carberry and Salanoa, even if the truth on the latter is unclear. So not sure where you are going with that one?

Only time will tell. I will watch with interest to se how this one pans out. Barring injury I can’t see Leinster retaining the services of all 3, but I do not have a crystal ball.
They asked the IRFU to push the move? I never said nobody had left, read what was wrote.
Ok, I get what you wrote, but not really sure of the relevance? Are you now saying that they may wish to leave, but won’t go to the irfu for permission?
How did you link a player going to the irfu demanding a transfer, with your point that Leinster can keep all 3 happy?

Fairly sure, like others before them, if any player wanted to leave they would be on their way to Cullen’s office rather than Farrell’s.

Again, if Leinster manage to keep them all happy, then more power too them, but I would question the players mentality if any of those 3 are happy to be playing for the Leinster A team just to avoid leaving Leinster.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by riocard911 »

If I knew playing Leinster A put me one injury away from playing in a Heino final, as opposed to joining another province, thereby lessening my chances of involvement in such a scenario, than I might prefer to stay put.

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 7:28 pm
Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 6:50 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Well there have been a fair few players who have left Leinster to join other provinces of late, even taking out Carberry and Salanoa, even if the truth on the latter is unclear. So not sure where you are going with that one?

Only time will tell. I will watch with interest to se how this one pans out. Barring injury I can’t see Leinster retaining the services of all 3, but I do not have a crystal ball.
They asked the IRFU to push the move? I never said nobody had left, read what was wrote.
Ok, I get what you wrote, but not really sure of the relevance? Are you now saying that they may wish to leave, but won’t go to the irfu for permission?
How did you link a player going to the irfu demanding a transfer, with your point that Leinster can keep all 3 happy?

Fairly sure, like others before them, if any player wanted to leave they would be on their way to Cullen’s office rather than Farrell’s.

Again, if Leinster manage to keep them all happy, then more power too them, but I would question the players mentality if any of those 3 are happy to be playing for the Leinster A team just to avoid leaving Leinster.
How in the world are you getting that from what I wrote???

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Re: Zebre at home, 23 Oct. 19:35

Post by Jonny tight lips »

munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 7:28 pm
Keith wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 6:50 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Well there have been a fair few players who have left Leinster to join other provinces of late, even taking out Carberry and Salanoa, even if the truth on the latter is unclear. So not sure where you are going with that one?

Only time will tell. I will watch with interest to se how this one pans out. Barring injury I can’t see Leinster retaining the services of all 3, but I do not have a crystal ball.
They asked the IRFU to push the move? I never said nobody had left, read what was wrote.
Ok, I get what you wrote, but not really sure of the relevance? Are you now saying that they may wish to leave, but won’t go to the irfu for permission?
How did you link a player going to the irfu demanding a transfer, with your point that Leinster can keep all 3 happy?

Fairly sure, like others before them, if any player wanted to leave they would be on their way to Cullen’s office rather than Farrell’s.

Again, if Leinster manage to keep them all happy, then more power too them, but I would question the players mentality if any of those 3 are happy to be playing for the Leinster A team just to avoid leaving Leinster.
If they think that if they are the best they will get to play and back themselves to be the best there is no reason why they would need to leave. People thought Will Connors had too many in front of him and tried to send him off west but he stayed and look at him now.

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