Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

[Jonny tight lips]

@Blueberry got closest with his first para. 110,000 tests done this week and huge pressure on results from HSE on all PCR testing venues to prioritise HSE results over private Tests, paricularly because of the variant.

Pro14 has black and white protocol about dates and times for Test results submission with no flexibility on delivery times. Otherwise, precedents would erode the protocol.

The fact that we got back negatives is irrelevant, because we had a confirmed postponement by that time.

We had substitutes named internally and submitted to Pro14 (you have to name who has been tested and confirm the results for named players). All theories that we couldn't field a Squad and wanted postponement are wide of the mark.

I think the query would be around the “black and white protocols” in reality in all industry’s deviate from internal and regulatory specifications/ protocols if required to with authorisation from senior management which is why senior management are there. The game could of been put to an “at risk” status and all stakeholders informed that results were pending and due in later or the game could very easily if been out back on after postponement. The Pro14 could have been told we were making a planned deviation from the protocol. If there was the will to play this game it could of been played.

If we accept the game could have been we could update the protocol or have a strategy in place to deviate from it should the need arise. The reality is that with pressure increasing on our testing infrastructure this may happen again be it through the lab loosing sample, generating invalids due to technician error or an instrument failure or any number of issues. This testing will be needed for a while so let’s see what lessons can be learned from this instead of saying ahh we had to follow a set timeline we decided on months ago

[IanD]

@Blueberry got closest with his first para. 110,000 tests done this week and huge pressure on results from HSE on all PCR testing venues to prioritise HSE results over private Tests, paricularly because of the variant.

Pro14 has black and white protocol about dates and times for Test results submission with no flexibility on delivery times. Otherwise, precedents would erode the protocol.

The fact that we got back negatives is irrelevant, because we had a confirmed postponement by that time.

We had substitutes named internally and submitted to Pro14 (you have to name who has been tested and confirm the results for named players). All theories that we couldn't field a Squad and wanted postponement are wide of the mark.

I think the query would be around the “black and white protocols” in reality in all industry’s deviate from internal and regulatory specifications/ protocols if required to with authorisation from senior management which is why senior management are there. The game could of been put to an “at risk” status and all stakeholders informed that results were pending and due in later or the game could very easily if been out back on after postponement. The Pro14 could have been told we were making a planned deviation from the protocol. If there was the will to play this game it could of been played.

If we accept the game could have been we could update the protocol or have a strategy in place to deviate from it should the need arise. The reality is that with pressure increasing on our testing infrastructure this may happen again be it through the lab loosing sample, generating invalids due to technician error or an instrument failure or any number of issues. This testing will be needed for a while so let’s see what lessons can be learned from this instead of saying ahh we had to follow a set timeline we decided on months ago

Imagine for a moment.

Protocols agreed with by 5 Governments\Regional Assemblies\Executives, 5 separate health Authorities, 4 different Sporting Associations and 12 individual clubs and 1 Administrating Organisation are changed last minute. Can you see all those involved agreeing to change the agreed protocols?

Now add the new variants into the mix.

Now add in the fact Leinster played an English team located just over an hour up the road from London 5 days previously.

Now add in 1000 confirmed cases a day in this country in the few days before the match.

Now add in the fact that the country was to go into Lock Down on the day of the proposed match.

Still think it was as simple as you make out to deviate from the protocols?


What would the optics be to the other sporting organisations in the country or to Joe/Josephine Public when Rugby can break the agreed rules?


Now imagine that there was an outbreak of Covid among both teams linked to the match. How would that look to the public and imagine the reaction of the press. Imagine Gavin Cummiskey being so excited he could burst slagging off the PRO 14 organisation and the IRFU.

This is surely possible because as you said

'The reality is that with pressure increasing on our testing infrastructure this may happen again be it through the lab loosing sample, generating invalids due to technician error or an instrument failure or any number of issues.'

This could mean Positive tests being returned Negative. I think this is a risk we have to take and may happen. But if it happened at a match where Agreed Protocols were broken imagine the excrement hitting the fan.

Would it be a large leap to see ALL Rugby stopped in Ireland? In my opinion the GAA cancelled all County Championships because they knew they were in trouble with outbreaks linked to celebrating County Finals (eg. 25 lads drinking out of one cup). They knew the optics were bad and sacrificed the County Championships to get the All Ireland played. Rugby has nothing to sacrifice other than the Professional game.


Now I was as disappointed as the next person at the postponement but I can see the rationale for the decision. There are much bigger things at stake than just one rugby match.

[Jonny tight lips]

@Blueberry got closest with his first para. 110,000 tests done this week and huge pressure on results from HSE on all PCR testing venues to prioritise HSE results over private Tests, paricularly because of the variant.

Pro14 has black and white protocol about dates and times for Test results submission with no flexibility on delivery times. Otherwise, precedents would erode the protocol.

The fact that we got back negatives is irrelevant, because we had a confirmed postponement by that time.

We had substitutes named internally and submitted to Pro14 (you have to name who has been tested and confirm the results for named players). All theories that we couldn't field a Squad and wanted postponement are wide of the mark.

I think the query would be around the “black and white protocols” in reality in all industry’s deviate from internal and regulatory specifications/ protocols if required to with authorisation from senior management which is why senior management are there. The game could of been put to an “at risk” status and all stakeholders informed that results were pending and due in later or the game could very easily if been out back on after postponement. The Pro14 could have been told we were making a planned deviation from the protocol. If there was the will to play this game it could of been played.

If we accept the game could have been we could update the protocol or have a strategy in place to deviate from it should the need arise. The reality is that with pressure increasing on our testing infrastructure this may happen again be it through the lab loosing sample, generating invalids due to technician error or an instrument failure or any number of issues. This testing will be needed for a while so let’s see what lessons can be learned from this instead of saying ahh we had to follow a set timeline we decided on months ago

Imagine for a moment.

Protocols agreed with by 5 Governments\Regional Assemblies\Executives, 5 separate health Authorities, 4 different Sporting Associations and 12 individual clubs and 1 Administrating Organisation are changed last minute. Can you see all those involved agreeing to change the agreed protocols?

Now add the new variants into the mix.

Now add in the fact Leinster played an English team located just over an hour up the road from London 5 days previously.

Now add in 1000 confirmed cases a day in this country in the few days before the match.

Now add in the fact that the country was to go into Lock Down on the day of the proposed match.

Still think it was as simple as you make out to deviate from the protocols?


What would the optics be to the other sporting organisations in the country or to Joe/Josephine Public when Rugby can break the agreed rules?


Now imagine that there was an outbreak of Covid among both teams linked to the match. How would that look to the public and imagine the reaction of the press. Imagine Gavin Cummiskey being so excited he could burst slagging off the PRO 14 organisation and the IRFU.

This is surely possible because as you said

'The reality is that with pressure increasing on our testing infrastructure this may happen again be it through the lab loosing sample, generating invalids due to technician error or an instrument failure or any number of issues.'

This could mean Positive tests being returned Negative. I think this is a risk we have to take and may happen. But if it happened at a match where Agreed Protocols were broken imagine the excrement hitting the fan.

Would it be a large leap to see ALL Rugby stopped in Ireland? In my opinion the GAA cancelled all County Championships because they knew they were in trouble with outbreaks linked to celebrating County Finals (eg. 25 lads drinking out of one cup). They knew the optics were bad and sacrificed the County Championships to get the All Ireland played. Rugby has nothing to sacrifice other than the Professional game.


Now I was as disappointed as the next person at the postponement but I can see the rationale for the decision. There are much bigger things at stake than just one rugby match.

By 9 o clock on the 24th they were certain there was no increased risk by the game being played so covid was removed from the equation, the only thing left was to overcome a paperwork exercise. You can’t bring up covid as a reason after 9PM Thursday because it’s removed by getting the test results back and going on about bigger things at stake is just a load of misdirection or “won’t somebody please think of the children” as Helen Lovejoy would say.

[Dave Cahill]

Well paperwork and cutting the grass, putting up the posts, cutting the grass again, lining the pitch, dressing the stadium, testing the floodlights (must be done in daylight under planning regs), deep cleaning and sealing two dressing rooms and any internal areas where people may be working or passing through, the seating areas for the two teams and personnel, setting up cameras, setting up the microphones, setting up the cable runs for the cameras and microphones, setting up the OB units, setting up and testing the satellite uplinks, rehearsing the cameras, all to be done in less than 48 hours with 24 of them taken up by Christmas day - but yeah, just paperwork.

People have no clue about what goes into putting a game on at this level

[Jonny tight lips]

All this work had stated and seeing as the team was decided all that happened was there was a pause of several hours and that’s if Leinster's press release in the negative results was given in real time. Also that work could have continued as planned while they were awaiting the results. All I’m saying is I hope they review it and see if there is a way to be more flexible when results are a couple hours late.

[Blueberry]

Love this thread - we are having a full blown speculating about what goes into setting up a live TV match and who and what was responsible for it !!

In summary:

i) We are all pi**ed off we didn't have a match to watch. I sure am, it was two hours of cursing at the ref which I won't get back and whichever clipboard person called it off is off the Xmas card list. To get my fix I even had to watch Ulster play Connacht yesterday and wonder why every Ulster player interviewed at the end of game had a Dublin accent ?

ii) The match probably could have gone ahead but that is easy to say in hindsight - at the time the head clipboard person possibly didn't have any idea when the tests were going to come back and wasn't going to hang around as they still had to pick up the kids Xmas pressies from Smyth's in Carrickmines so was under pressure. Better to call it off and put up with the anger of thousands of rugby fans than miss the pick up slot in Smyth's. Try explaining that to the rugrats.

iii) PR and being seen to do the right thing in the time of Covid is quite simply 'THE MOST IMPORTANT THING' for every organisation at the moment. Even if something makes absolutely so sense in any business ATM the number one thing is to be seen to do the right thing.....and not end up on the twitter machine.......as a Covidiot.

iv) In reality we all know Leo and Stu were up all night trying to come up with some reason to avoid this game as we were gonna get hammered. Ever since the Munster v Clermont game the 'rugby world' has reset and the blip in the space time continuum between 2008 and 2020 when Munster won shag all in Europe has been corrected and Leinster are back to trembling in their dressing room at the mere thought of having to play the liginds.

[wixfjord]

iv) In reality we all know Leo and Stu were up all night trying to come up with some reason to avoid this game as we were gonna get hammered. Ever since the Munster v Clermont game the 'rugby world' has reset and the blip in the space time continuum between 2008 and 2020 when Munster won shag all in Europe has been corrected and Leinster are back to trembling in their dressing room at the mere thought of having to play the liginds.

[CiaranIrl]

iv) In reality we all know Leo and Stu were up all night trying to come up with some reason to avoid this game as we were gonna get hammered. Ever since the Munster v Clermont game the 'rugby world' has reset and the blip in the space time continuum between 2008 and 2020 when Munster won shag all in Europe has been corrected and Leinster are back to trembling in their dressing room at the mere thought of having to play the liginds.

It all makes sense now! The space time blip must also be responsible for that weird paradox where we don't have enough players to fill out a bench, despite the billions of people living in Dublin giving us a huge advantage against the little village of limerick.

[Keith]

Love this thread - we are having a full blown speculating about what goes into setting up a live TV match and who and what was responsible for it !!

In summary:

i) We are all pi**ed off we didn't have a match to watch. I sure am, it was two hours of cursing at the ref which I won't get back and whichever clipboard person called it off is off the Xmas card list. To get my fix I even had to watch Ulster play Connacht yesterday and wonder why every Ulster player interviewed at the end of game had a Dublin accent ?

ii) The match probably could have gone ahead but that is easy to say in hindsight - at the time the head clipboard person possibly didn't have any idea when the tests were going to come back and wasn't going to hang around as they still had to pick up the kids Xmas pressies from Smyth's in Carrickmines so was under pressure. Better to call it off and put up with the anger of thousands of rugby fans than miss the pick up slot in Smyth's. Try explaining that to the rugrats.

iii) PR and being seen to do the right thing in the time of Covid is quite simply 'THE MOST IMPORTANT THING' for every organisation at the moment. Even if something makes absolutely so sense in any business ATM the number one thing is to be seen to do the right thing.....and not end up on the twitter machine.......as a Covidiot.

iv) In reality we all know Leo and Stu were up all night trying to come up with some reason to avoid this game as we were gonna get hammered. Ever since the Munster v Clermont game the 'rugby world' has reset and the blip in the space time continuum between 2008 and 2020 when Munster won shag all in Europe has been corrected and Leinster are back to trembling in their dressing room at the mere thought of having to play the liginds.

Something tells me you don't like Munster very much

[Peg Leg]

Love that this thread is twice a long as the Ire v Sco match last month and it actually went ahead.

[joooooe]

iv) In reality we all know Leo and Stu were up all night trying to come up with some reason to avoid this game as we were gonna get hammered. Ever since the Munster v Clermont game the 'rugby world' has reset and the blip in the space time continuum between 2008 and 2020 when Munster won shag all in Europe has been corrected and Leinster are back to trembling in their dressing room at the mere thought of having to play the liginds.

[fourthirtythree]

Love that this thread is twice a long as the Ire v Sco match last month and it actually went ahead.

This not going ahead was certainly more interesting than watchi g Ireland play.

[alanair]

Love this thread - we are having a full blown speculating about what goes into setting up a live TV match and who and what was responsible for it !!

In summary:

i) We are all pi**ed off we didn't have a match to watch. I sure am, it was two hours of cursing at the ref which I won't get back and whichever clipboard person called it off is off the Xmas card list. To get my fix I even had to watch Ulster play Connacht yesterday and wonder why every Ulster player interviewed at the end of game had a Dublin accent ?

ii) The match probably could have gone ahead but that is easy to say in hindsight - at the time the head clipboard person possibly didn't have any idea when the tests were going to come back and wasn't going to hang around as they still had to pick up the kids Xmas pressies from Smyth's in Carrickmines so was under pressure. Better to call it off and put up with the anger of thousands of rugby fans than miss the pick up slot in Smyth's. Try explaining that to the rugrats.

iii) PR and being seen to do the right thing in the time of Covid is quite simply 'THE MOST IMPORTANT THING' for every organisation at the moment. Even if something makes absolutely so sense in any business ATM the number one thing is to be seen to do the right thing.....and not end up on the twitter machine.......as a Covidiot.

iv) In reality we all know Leo and Stu were up all night trying to come up with some reason to avoid this game as we were gonna get hammered. Ever since the Munster v Clermont game the 'rugby world' has reset and the blip in the space time continuum between 2008 and 2020 when Munster won shag all in Europe has been corrected and Leinster are back to trembling in their dressing room at the mere thought of having to play the liginds.

Something tells me you don't like Munster very much

Eh ... apart from Munster #1 on this Forum... who does ???

[LeinsterLeader]

We are on for Saturday week, it would seem........

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 55397.html

[Blueberry]

We are on for Saturday week, it would seem........

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 55397.html

Excellent - let the games commence......

I'll start:

In light of Munster thrashing Connacht away so convincingly from home and Connacht pulverizing The Leinster Full senior team led by that donkey Sexton how on earth do we even start to plan to keep the score reasonable v the Liginds ? Suggestions on the back of fag packet to:

Stuart & Leo,
4th Best Province in Ireland,
Horse Show House Pub, (Just outside Johnny Ronan's Fantabulous New Bank Offices),
Dublin 4rrrrrr.


On a serious note - let's put the full month deck out here and put the 'liginds' back in their box.

Healy
Cronin (if fit)
Porter
Ryan
Fardy (Niggle to annoy Angry Face or Baird who deserves it of course)
VDF
Doris
Ruddock
JGP
Sexton
Henshaw
13 TBC (Perhaps some random back who has never played here before ala Ross Byrne success) (Luke McGrath maybe ??)
Lowe
Kearney
Keenan

as a starting xv anyway.....suggestions for subs ?

[wixfjord]

Gotta start Dev against Munster for the lineout imo.

ROL would probably be my choice at 13 too if fit.

[Blueberry]

Gotta start Dev against Munster for the lineout imo.

ROL would probably be my choice at 13 too if fit.

Don't disagree re Dev...........Perhaps Ryan and Toner with Baird on the bench for a 30 minute impact run if needed. Fardy can take a break.

13 is tricky but yes ROL probably the best option there although don't discount Ross getting another run there.....

[carlow man]

Now on sat 23rd jan.

[Blue Man]

From having to draft in Smith and O’Reilly for debuts against Connacht, we now have to omit one of Keenan, Lowe, Larmour and Kearney!

[Blue Man]

Healy
Cronin
Porter
Ryan
Toner
Ruddock
Leavy
Doris
JGP
Sexton
Lowe
Henshaw
ROL
Larmour
Keenan

Kelleher
E Byrne
Bent
Baird
Conan
McGrath
Byrne
Kearney