Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

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ronk
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by ronk »

joooooe wrote: January 21st, 2021, 10:45 am
joooooe wrote: December 22nd, 2020, 10:01 am 2017: Narrative: Leinster disrespecting the fixture by sending a team of kids to be slaughtered at Thomond Park. The likes of Jordan Larmour, Ross Byrne, Jamison Gibson-Park and James Ryan (who all played that day) were clearly not ready but within a few months had all played for Ireland, many winning a Grand Slam. Result: Leinster win. Go figure.

2018: Narrative: Leinster finally respecting the sanctity of the holy turf of Athenry Thomond Park by sending a “full strength team” (it was far from full strength by any meaningful measure apart from the one metric that if Johnny Sexton is playing then certain elements of the rugby media in Ireland deem that to mean “full strength”). Munster of course won that day, in case you hadn't heard. There is a commemorative DVD and bed spread of Fineen Wycherly hitting Johnny Sexton on the ground. And James Lowe's hit in the air on Andrew Conway was so late it still hasn't actually happened. Result: Munster win. Hadn't you heard?

(By the way, the Venn diagram of those who felt Leinster disrespected the fixture in 2017 and those who still use the 2018 fixture as a reference point to mark either a) the beginning of the end of Irish rugby, and/or b) the beginning of the re-birth of Munster rugby, is a circle.)

2019: Narrative: Leinster disrespect the heavenly shrine by sending a team of players nobody has ever heard of to play a game for men/Gods against Lijinds and warriors in a county now into its 15th month of celebrating a hurling all Ireland title. Who has ever even heard of Hugo Keenan, Will Connors, or Caelan Doris (who all played that day)?... or perhaps one team views the absence of internationals as a disrespectful abomination while the other uses it as an opportunity to prepare future internationals? Result: Leinster win (so the lads in the Venn diagram above had to STFU).

2020: Narrative: I see we're back to disrespecting the holiest of holy, the graciest of goddy, the most lijindree of lijindree, the stand-upiest and fightiest patch of turf that God did ever bestow on the people of Limerick (who are now a bit confused as they have had to say the same about the Gaelic Grounds since all that they mine there is Silver and Gold in the shape of the Liam McCarthy Cup and the Dr Croke Cup). Leinster might actually send a pretty strong team, but the fact that Johnny "his family is from Kirrie anyway" Sexton will not be playing means it must be a team of children being thrown into the Thomond Park Coliseum. To the uninitiated (i.e. the Venn diagram lads above) they will just have to wait until the 6 Nations to understand that Scott Penny, Ciarán Frawley, Tommy O'Brien, Conor O'Brien, Jimmy O'Brien, Dan Sheehan, Tom Clarkson and this NKOTB Dave Kearney are actually not too bad (though maybe not quite the standard of Semi Radradra/Darren Sweetnam). Result: let's see.

Bring it on. Don't buy into the narrative. Win, lose or draw, Leinster will learn from the fixture and know that a non-conference league game 8 games into the season is not the one to peak for. Enjoy yizzer turkey sangijes and scream at the TV like you're in the Laighin Pit on a sunny May afternoon.
I see the narrative has moved on in the 4 weeks of deferment. It's now all about a pre-6 Nations trial match like those of "of yore" (h/t @AssuredlyGerry), while at the same time a lot of inches/air time is being devoted to the fact that a win would be "momentous" for Munster (thank you, Murray K). Oddly, nobody is talking about what a win for Leinster might mean.

As someone noted above, Munster are due a win in this fixture and are in reasonable form. However, I saw someone reference the 2018 "Johnny Sexton meltdown" elsewhere, which means those in certain quarters (the one in the South-West) still cling to a victory in a regular-season out-of-conference league game from 2 years ago like the fella walking out of the diner in Springsteen's Glory Days. Meanwhile, others can reference the more tangible trappings of success, i.e. finals and trophies. Lord help us if they win this weekend as they could dine out on it for another 2 years (or more).
Derby performance can have a real effect on the standing of players within the wider Irish rugby community. Pundits love the trial narrative as they get a build up column with just a list of players and a follow up column with just a list of players, and maybe another with an interview with an underdog at the best possible time.

It really only has an effect for Munster and Connacht when they play Leinster. A win for Leinster doesn’t mean anything as all those players are presumed to have the full attention of national team management anyway.

This is calendar filler due to cancellations, but under the circumstances you can understand why it gets hyped, and none of the derbies are ever small.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by carlow man »

Any team news? Or inside info? Will it be frawley or ringrose alongside robbie. Fardy and Ryan or Ryan and dev. Back row will be hugely important. I'd have Rhys, dan and doris but will prob be vdf at 7.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by limecat »

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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by curates_egg »

carlow man wrote: January 21st, 2021, 1:51 pm I'd have Rhys, dan and doris but will prob be vdf at 7.
As mentioned above, I really don’t understand why so many people on this forum rush to write off VDF. He was excellent, as usual, vs Ulster. Meanwhile, as much as we all want, nothing we have seen from Leavy so far would suggest he is back to a level that is good enough to displace either VDF or Connors, based on their consistently good performances over the past 18 months.

We all naturally hope he will get back to where he was in 2018/18, where he was on his way to becoming one of the best opensides in the world. If and when he does, we really would potentially have one top class openside too many for Nucifora.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by Blueberry »

curates_egg wrote: January 21st, 2021, 5:15 pm
carlow man wrote: January 21st, 2021, 1:51 pm I'd have Rhys, dan and doris but will prob be vdf at 7.
As mentioned above, I really don’t understand why so many people on this forum rush to write off VDF. He was excellent, as usual, vs Ulster. Meanwhile, as much as we all want, nothing we have seen from Leavy so far would suggest he is back to a level that is good enough to displace either VDF or Connors, based on their consistently good performances over the past 18 months.

We all naturally hope he will get back to where he was in 2018/18, where he was on his way to becoming one of the best opensides in the world. If and when he does, we really would potentially have one top class openside too many for Nucifora.
+1 - for me it's Ruddock Doris and VDF to start v Munster. Leavy may well have something to say on the matter but for me VDF is our best 7 ATM. Connors in the mix but VDF just seems to be everywhere all the time.....
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by IanD »

Might be a bit controversial but I always saw Dan Leavy as a 6. Before his injury I would have gone with

6 Leavy
8 Conan
7 VDF

Funnily enough I never liked SOB at 7 either.

Anyway back to Saturday I would start VDF. I think he will make whoever starts at 10 very very nervous.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by carlow man »

curates_egg wrote: January 21st, 2021, 5:15 pm
carlow man wrote: January 21st, 2021, 1:51 pm I'd have Rhys, dan and doris but will prob be vdf at 7.
As mentioned above, I really don’t understand why so many people on this forum rush to write off VDF. He was excellent, as usual, vs Ulster. Meanwhile, as much as we all want, nothing we have seen from Leavy so far would suggest he is back to a level that is good enough to displace either VDF or Connors, based on their consistently good performances over the past 18 months.

We all naturally hope he will get back to where he was in 2018/18, where he was on his way to becoming one of the best opensides in the world. If and when he does, we really would potentially have one top class openside too many for Nucifora.
I wasn't writing vdf off. Just think if leavy can get back the form he had before then he will be first choice at 7. I'm a huge vdf fan, was just thinking that the breakdown will be crucial against munster and we need a real turnover threat and leavy is made for those types of games. He prob is nowhere near that level yet but a big performance from him if he started would he a massive step up in his quest to get back to his pre injury form. If hes not ready yet then vdf will be our starter. Would love josh to be a bit more dominant and aggressive in games where we need the pack to make it a real dogfight.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by ronk »

It will take Leavy a while longer. Probably next season.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by leinsterforever »

carlow man wrote: January 21st, 2021, 1:51 pm Any team news? Or inside info? Will it be frawley or ringrose alongside robbie. Fardy and Ryan or Ryan and dev. Back row will be hugely important. I'd have Rhys, dan and doris but will prob be vdf at 7.
Has the lineout worked better while Molony's been on the pitch? It'd be interesting to see the stats for lineout success rate and percentage of clean lineout ball while the different locks were playing.

He obviously lacks Toner's height, but Toner doesn't call a huge amount of ball on himself anyway. It'd be interesting to see a Ryan-Molony partnership at some stage (have they ever started together?). I think they'd complement each other well.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by carlow man »

I feel moloney brings a lot of calmness and control to our lineout. He has great hands in the air and gets up very quickly making him a very good defensive lineout operator. Its prob his contribution in open play that goes against him. He's at the age where he should be hitting his prime now and hopefully starts being a real option to start in the big games. Very unrated outside leinster where many seem to think hes the last option if Ryan, dev or fardy are unavailable.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by Cianostays »

Very good point re Moloney. I could see Josh Murphy getting a bench spot for similar reasons. With the Six Nations coming up certain players will definitely start but we have options elsewhere.

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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by backrower8 »

Cianostays wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 10:44 am Very good point re Moloney. I could see Josh Murphy getting a bench spot for similar reasons. With the Six Nations coming up certain players will definitely start but we have options elsewhere.

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Ryan (4th yr) partnered Molony (6th yr Captain) at SCT in 2012/13 season. In a side with Nick McCarthy, Ross B, Cian Kelleher, Denis Coulson, Josh Murphy & Max Deegan (4th yr bench) lost a tight final to an outstanding display by Garry Ringrose (intercept try & perfect off the tee) in a Rock side with Loughman, Oliver Jager and Nick Timoney, coached by Peter Smyth.

Molony has almost everything bar that extra grunt which is needed at European level upwards - and likely also against South African packs.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by mildlyinterested »

Munster: Mike Haley; Keith Earls, Chris Farrell, Damian de Allende, Shane Daly; JJ Hanrahan, Conor Murray; James Cronin, Rhys Marshall, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony (C), CJ Stander.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Fineen Wycherley, Jack O’Donoghue, Craig Casey, Ben Healy, Rory Scannell.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by mildlyinterested »

Image
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by wixfjord »

No DK? Wonder if that's an injury.

If the weather is as bad as it sounds then we'll be relying a lot on the pack to carry.

I would've 100% started Dev but hopefully our lineout can hold up.

Back three will be tested aerially.

Big test for our front row subs too.

Conan & VDF are fantastic subs to be bringing on for impact.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by wixfjord »

mildlyinterested wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 11:57 am Munster: Mike Haley; Keith Earls, Chris Farrell, Damian de Allende, Shane Daly; JJ Hanrahan, Conor Murray; James Cronin, Rhys Marshall, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony (C), CJ Stander.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Fineen Wycherley, Jack O’Donoghue, Craig Casey, Ben Healy, Rory Scannell.
I would say that's the strongest Munster side we've seen in this fixture for quite a while.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by Jcahill1 »

Don't really like the 6:2 bench split we've been persisting with. It's already hurt us in a few games, and especially when we don't have flexible bench options. Nice to see Ringrose back, but I'm very surprised Dooley didn't make the squad at all. Feeling a bit nervous, this feels like the least faith I've had in the coaching staff for a long while. Don't understand a lot of stuff going on lately.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by wixfjord »

In a game like this I think the 6/2 split makes sense. These games are always won up front and particularly given the snowy/sleet conditions that are forecast.

Having Conan & VDF to come on is a huge boost.

Obviously it's a risk, but it's probably also down to the lack of backs we have fit.

Ross M is always a good selection for a Munster game too imo. Seems to relish playing down there and is a good lineout option to bring in/disrupt them.
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Anyone brave enough to call it? :D
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Re: Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

Post by wixfjord »

JOB ahead of DK
Clarkson ahead of Bent
Fardy ahead of Toner
Ross B ahead of Frawley

would all be selection choices that I'd disagree with personally.

Wonder if any of those are injury forced?
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