Heaslip speaks on behalf of the Pack

epaddy · Post by **epaddy** » April 20th, 2006, 1:12 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:Jeez Dave, if the PAG are that much against ye why were both Contepomi and Holwell signed, and Green, and Whitaker? Not to mention Warner, Gissing, Gleeson etc.

You're too quick to believe any half-baked rumour that comes your way.

Gleeson? The young Irish chap

Dave Cahill · Post by **Dave Cahill** » April 20th, 2006, 1:15 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:Jeez Dave, if the PAG are that much against ye why were both Contepomi and Holwell signed, and Green, and Whitaker? Not to mention Warner, Gissing, Gleeson etc.

You're too quick to believe any half-baked rumour that comes your way.

Gleeson is Irish Jose, born in Dublin. Contepomi is only on a part time contract, they had to let us have Whitaker after refusing us Campbell...again, Green was signed after they had refused Ronnie permission to return to Leinster initially, and Warner and Gissing predate the PAG, indeed Gissing was naturalised by the time it was set up.

JoseFantastique · Post by **JoseFantastique** » April 20th, 2006, 1:19 pm

True, but plenty of Irish and Irish-qualified players end up in the GP, Leinster were still allowed sign him, Leinster have done pretty well off the PAG, certainly surprisingly well considering how it's ultimate function (in Dave's eyes) is too destroy Leinster rugby.

Next season it's conceivable that Leinster will be starting Green, Jowitt, Whitaker and Contepomi, all ahead of Irish qualified players, especially if Jowitt holds on to his dream of a Black jersey. Worse still, in 2 of those posititons we badly need Irish qualifed cover, and could do with another Irish scrumhalf too.

JoseFantastique · Post by **JoseFantastique** » April 20th, 2006, 1:22 pm

It's doesn't really matter what contract Contepomi is on, or at least, not as much as it matters that now we've only 1 Irish qualified outhalf playing HEC rugby, especially now Wavy Davy is gone.

The PAG is bad for every province, each one has it's horror stories, to claim it's particulary against Leinster is nonsense.

Dave Cahill · Post by **Dave Cahill** » April 20th, 2006, 1:26 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:True, but plenty of Irish and Irish-qualified players end up in the GP, Leinster were still allowed sign him, Leinster have done pretty well off the PAG, certainly surprisingly well considering how it's ultimate function (in Dave's eyes) is too destroy Leinster rugby.

Next season it's conceivable that Leinster will be starting Green, Jowitt, Whitaker and Contepomi, all ahead of Irish qualified players, especially if Jowitt holds on to his dream of a Black jersey. Worse still, in 2 of those posititons we badly need Irish qualifed cover, and could do with another Irish scrumhalf too.

No, its function is to shaft the members of DKs Irish u-19 team. Wallace, Campbell, Keogh, to name but a few have all suffered at its hands.

We tried, twice, to sign an Irish qualified scrum half, and on both occasions were rebuffed, while the same scrum-half sits on the bench for Ulster, first to Neil Doak and now to the admittedly excellent Isaac Boss. We also tried to sign Paddy Wallace, under both Ella and Kidney, but again were rebuffed.

Leinsterman · Post by **Leinsterman** » April 20th, 2006, 1:29 pm

Don't worry about scrummies - Connacht are churning them out.

Mark McHugh for 10 for Ireland!

JoseFantastique · Post by **JoseFantastique** » April 20th, 2006, 1:36 pm

Leinster inherit more talented players than any other province, the schools cup ensures that, it's what ye do with them once ye get them is the problem. Players like O'Riordain and Potts should be starting now but they go off the radar, not to mention Des Dillon, who could have been the best forward in the country.

The PAG is right that with players like O'Riordain at scrumhalf and McAllister, Sexton and Hickey, Leinster doesn't need more halfbacks, it needs to make better use of the ones ye have.

CRAZYDAVE · Post by **CRAZYDAVE** » April 20th, 2006, 1:36 pm

Leinsterman wrote:Don't worry about scrummies - Connacht are churning them out.

Mark McHugh for 10 for Ireland!

McHugh has great potential but has been with Connacht for the last 4-5 years, firstly as understudy to the great Elwood. If the PAG intended to bring him on, they surely would have farmed him out to one of the opther provinces. The opther problem is that most of his appearances have either been ad FB or Centre. Not exactly the way to develop an out-half for International level rugby !

Dave Cahill · Post by **Dave Cahill** » April 20th, 2006, 1:40 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:
The PAG is right that with players like O'Riordain at scrumhalf and McAllister, Sexton and Hickey, Leinster doesn't need more halfbacks, it needs to make better use of the ones ye have.

Yet Munster are allowed sign unqualified and can't-qualify half backs? Surely they should be making use of the likes of Conan Doyle or Stan when he was there?

Leinsterman · Post by **Leinsterman** » April 20th, 2006, 1:43 pm

Good point CRAZYDUDE ...... although he played at 10 last weekend...

JoseFantastique · Post by **JoseFantastique** » April 20th, 2006, 1:47 pm

Manning was brought across by the academy with the intent he qualify before he played for Munster, it's just he was so good he got even more fast-tracked, agree about Stan but what can you do, at least we're trying to bring players like O'Leary and Manning through now. Doyle is an interesting one, is he to be a first centre or outhalf, is he big enough to play CL yet?

jezzer · Post by **jezzer** » April 20th, 2006, 1:48 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:Leinster inherit more talented players than any other province, the schools cup ensures that, it's what ye do with them once ye get them is the problem. Players like O'Riordain and Potts should be starting now but they go off the radar, not to mention Des Dillon, who could have been the best forward in the country.

The PAG is right that with players like O'Riordain at scrumhalf and McAllister, Sexton and Hickey, Leinster doesn't need more halfbacks, it needs to make better use of the ones ye have.

Hmmm... who to trust on halfback selection for leinster..... Jose, the PAG or Wallaby out-half and visionary coach David Knox (who, together with Cheika has stated his obligation to develop an irish halfback partnership capable of challenging for naitonal honours)? I have to say it's a pretty tough call.....

We are currently playing a squad with no back-up outhalf. Do you honestly think that if C&K rated Hickey or Sexton as ready for the senior team that they would not be on the bench? Do you think we'd have signed Whitaker if (a) Knox thought BOR was good enough to start or (b) we could have signed Campbell from Ulster?

There might have been a complaint inthe past (notably under Kidney) that players were pigeon-holed and found it hard to break through, but no coach in recent Leinster history has tried more combinations and used more young talent than Knox in the backs.

If he says, we don't have anyone ready to step up, I believe him (though I do think Hickey deserves a run at 10

)

JoseFantastique · Post by **JoseFantastique** » April 20th, 2006, 1:53 pm

The worrying thing is Jezzer, that if none of these guys is ready to step up, what the f%~ks going wrong with the system? I find it incomprehensible that Leinster haven't produced a good outhalf since.... Dunne (maybe). I'm not expecting miracles, but competence should be achievable.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » April 20th, 2006, 1:54 pm

"Do you think we'd have signed Whitaker if"

You signed him because he was available. Simple as that.

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » April 20th, 2006, 2:02 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:The worrying thing is Jezzer, that if none of these guys is ready to step up, what the f%~ks going wrong with the system? I find it incomprehensible that Leinster haven't produced a good outhalf since.... Dunne (maybe). I'm not expecting miracles, but competence should be achievable.

Until the arrival of Murphy on the scene you could have said the same about really class creative backs from Munster. These things go in cycles.

jezzer · Post by **jezzer** » April 20th, 2006, 2:04 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:The worrying thing is Jezzer, that if none of these guys is ready to step up, what the f%~ks going wrong with the system? I find it incomprehensible that Leinster haven't produced a good outhalf since.... Dunne (maybe). I'm not expecting miracles, but competence should be achievable.

What's so incomprehensible? Munster haven't produced a good fullback since Crotty (maybe). Ireland hasn't produced a top class scrum half in 50 years. I'm not saying the system's perfect by any means, but it's not a Leinster problem.

JoseFantastique · Post by **JoseFantastique** » April 20th, 2006, 2:08 pm

It's incomprehensibe becuase of the numbers of schools players Leinster produce every year. I'm not sure, but I think nealy every schools team played an outhalf this year, so what happens these guys?

If you'd said it was incomprehensible Munster are no longer producing props, (of any variety) I'd have agreed with you. Munster have never produced great backs, think about our most famous centre, Dennison, is known for his tackling and not his creativity.

thecoolfreak · Post by **thecoolfreak** » April 20th, 2006, 2:10 pm

I'm not sure, but I think nealy every schools team played an outhalf this year, so what happens these guys?

Most of the players who a good schoolboys end up with serious injuries in their early 20's and never get to play at a decent level. As well as this a lot of them just quit rugby after they have finished in school

Leinsterman · Post by **Leinsterman** » April 20th, 2006, 2:12 pm

JoseFantastique wrote:so what happens these guys?

Same thing that happens the rest of the players. They consider the SCT the pinnacle of their rugby career after training practically like pros for the guts of 3 years and then lining out in Donnybrook in front of 5,000 people.

After school, where do the majority of them go? Mickey Mouse training sessions once a week and they discover the wonders of booze.....

jezzer · Post by **jezzer** » April 20th, 2006, 2:12 pm

Jose,

For every guy in Leinster playing schools, there's a guy in Munster playing for a club or a school. Club players tend to drop out less than schools players. Without getting into a discussion on schools vs. clubs, suffice to say that you're looking for a bogeyman to point at and blame for our lack of Irish halfbacks on the senior panel and there isn't one.

Babbling 'brook

Heaslip speaks on behalf of the Pack

GingerNuts