Club Vs Provence

Uncle Mort · Post by **Uncle Mort** » April 27th, 2006, 11:20 am

Malahide Mullet wrote:Wrong I believe. Our system cherry picks the best. All we need is two or three players out of every SCT year to reach Heineken standard. Our system gives us the best. You must be the best in your school in that psoition you must be the best in the comp, you must be the best in your uni. The drain happens in every sport it's just natural selection

Which is true - the drain does happen - but what you have is a pyramid with young players at the bottom and HEC players at the top. To be truly successful the bottom level needs to be as broad as possible - then you'll have more players at each level, more competition for places and a general improvement.

Malahide Mullet · Post by **Malahide Mullet** » April 27th, 2006, 11:26 am

Yeah but that is just the clubs being lazy not the fault of schools. You have career days so why not a rugby day. Schools wouldn't dare refuse with health so high up in news. There needs to be a quick pick up of youngsters who the vast bulk will not make an academy

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » April 27th, 2006, 11:28 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
Malahide Mullet wrote:I disagree schools can drive more commmited youngsters. Just like in Odessa Texas
They can drive them out of the game is what they can do. What is needed is a holistic approach to youth development in rugby. The number of players who peak in the Irish u-19 team and then leave the game or don't go on to the pro game is ridiculous

Yep. My father has been going on about that for years. There needs to be more links between clubs and schools - at the moment the opposite is the case, with schools trying to restrict access to players.

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » April 27th, 2006, 11:33 am

Malahide Mullet wrote:Wrong I believe. Our system cherry picks the best. All we need is two or three players out of every SCT year to reach Heineken standard. Our system gives us the best. You must be the best in your school in that psoition you must be the best in the comp, you must be the best in your uni. The drain happens in every sport it's just natural selection

Your American Football example is misguided - if it was accurate they would have no need for the colleges, players would simply be taken straight from High School to the NFL. We don't have the same college system that they have, we've just got a couple of rugby academies which is hardly the same thing.

It is the case that many players simply don't develop early enough to make an impact at schools level. Rugby, being the very physical game that it is, is different in that regard to games like soccer and GAA where the true elite can usually be spotted very early. Lads are still developing into their twenties - these are the lads who need to feel that they can go down to their local club which isn't happening right now. With the present divide between schools and clubs there simply isn't that connection.

Uncle Mort · Post by **Uncle Mort** » April 27th, 2006, 11:34 am

Malahide Mullet wrote:Yeah but that is just the clubs being lazy not the fault of schools. You have career days so why not a rugby day. Schools wouldn't dare refuse with health so high up in news. There needs to be a quick pick up of youngsters who the vast bulk will not make an academy

But the problem is the perception of those outside the loop - this is the nub of this debate.

It doesn't matter what we think as we are part of the system - be it supporters of the schools system or not - what is important is the perception of those who are not part of the system. Rightly or wrongly they believe Leinster rugby is all about D4 and having gone to the right school. This is the perception that we have to break down. If people see that there is this team called Leinster playing a great game called rugby and that some of the best players in the world can be seen playing and it makes no difference who you are or where you're from - then and only then will we tap into the new markets and vastly broaden our player base and our suppoter base.

As I say it doesn't matter what we (insiders) think or know - it's what is published by the media which forms people's opinions of what we're about is what has to be changed.

jrc · Post by **jrc** » April 27th, 2006, 11:36 am

Malahide Mullet wrote:
I've been on Hill and there's a reason the opposition don't want Hill tickets and it's nothing to do with being drowned out by colour or noise. It's to do with the fact that there's a sizeable element of total focking toerags on the Hill who wouldn't have any qualms about starting fights on Meath men or Kerry men or whoever!!
Go way and shoite

Good response.

Ballyman · Post by **Ballyman** » April 27th, 2006, 11:41 am

This Mullet thing is obviously well educated. Or is that well fed?? No, no, it's educated.

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » April 27th, 2006, 11:49 am

Uncle Mort wrote:But the problem is the perception of those outside the loop - this is the nub of this debate.

It doesn't matter what we think as we are part of the system - be it supporters of the schools system or not - what is important is the perception of those who are not part of the system. Rightly or wrongly they believe Leinster rugby is all about D4 and having gone to the right school. This is the perception that we have to break down. If people see that there is this team called Leinster playing a great game called rugby and that some of the best players in the world can be seen playing and it makes no difference who you are or where you're from - then and only then will we tap into the new markets and vastly broaden our player base and our suppoter base.

As I say it doesn't matter what we (insiders) think or know - it's what is published by the media which forms people's opinions of what we're about is what has to be changed.

Agreed.

Mauler · Post by **Mauler** » April 27th, 2006, 11:55 am

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/members/bb_ ... 21&BF_ID=1

This is a thread on the Leinster Site. This is what we have to put up with. If you open your mouth to support your team your seen as some sort of Neveaux Supporter who should be watching Soccer and probably will once the novelty wears off .... WTF

Allez les Blues!

Ballyman · Post by **Ballyman** » April 27th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Yes indeedy. This is what you are dealing with. Bet he's an "old boy" too!! Ye should listen to Dingbat and UM. They're the only ones making sense.

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » April 27th, 2006, 12:02 pm

Mauler wrote:http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/members/bb_ ... 21&BF_ID=1

This is a thread on the Leinster Site. This is what we have to put up with. If you open your mouth to support your team your seen as some sort of Neveaux Supporter who should be watching Soccer and probably will once the novelty wears off .... WTF

Allez les Blues!

*rolls up sleeves*

I'm going over there.

Malahide Mullet · Post by **Malahide Mullet** » April 27th, 2006, 1:11 pm

Ohh I see when the Dubs do it, it's because they are scum but if Munster do it it's passion. Typical rubbish from the couisn marrying population

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » April 27th, 2006, 1:16 pm

Ah, my message is up. I had to log in three separate times to get the thing posted - the way that site is designed is a disaster...

sexy_rexy · Post by **sexy_rexy** » April 27th, 2006, 1:34 pm

Typical rubbish from the couisn marrying population

Brilliant!

katz · Post by **katz** » April 27th, 2006, 1:53 pm

I've been following this thread and biting my lip so as not to say anything that might offend.

Club rugby is exteremly important to the development of players IMHO. I understand that alot of you feel school rugby is more important - this I both agree and disagree with on the basis that sometimes coaching standards from the ages 14 to 16 are usually better than that of the club scene. I don't agree on the basis that - most players stop playing rugby after 6th year in school, because they try the club scene for 2 months of pre-season stuff and realise that they are playing with "big boys" now because the club scene (excuse the phrase) is more "kick sh^t" rugby.

Clubs to me are sooooo important (can't emphasise enough). This is where the back bone of Irish rugy lies. I can't understand who some people here don't see that (ref back to the ticket allocations). Not all players go to rugby playing schools so where do you think this type of player will come from. See being for the midlands where, yes we have lots of clubs, but not many rugby schools, I can see where the who "D4" thing comes from. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with private schooling (before anyone jumps down my throat) I just think that the Branch needs to introduce rugby to all schools and make it more community based for all communities. This is where the big issue stems. If kids aren't fed the brand in their everyday life (like in Munster) they won't have any affiliation to the brand...
The branch needs to approach clubs and schools all over the provience and promote rugby to the young and old - if a kid comes home and talks rugby the whole time and wants to go to a game - dad or mam will have to go with him/her... end of story - straight away you've got 2/3 more supporters....

dingbat · Post by **dingbat** » April 27th, 2006, 1:56 pm

katz wrote:I've been following this thread and biting my lip so as not to say anything that might offend.

Club rugby is exteremly important to the development of players IMHO. I understand that alot of you feel school rugby is more important - this I both agree and disagree with on the basis that sometimes coaching standards from the ages 14 to 16 are usually better than that of the club scene. I don't agree on the basis that - most players stop playing rugby after 6th year in school, because they try the club scene for 2 months of pre-season stuff and realise that they are playing with "big boys" now because the club scene (excuse the phrase) is more "kick sh^t" rugby.

Clubs to me are sooooo important (can't emphasise enough). This is where the back bone of Irish rugy lies. I can't understand who some people here don't see that (ref back to the ticket allocations). Not all players go to rugby playing schools so where do you think this type of player will come from. See being for the midlands where, yes we have lots of clubs, but not many rugby schools, I can see where the who "D4" thing comes from. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with private schooling (before anyone jumps down my throat) I just think that the Branch needs to introduce rugby to all schools and make it more community based for all communities. This is where the big issue stems. If kids aren't fed the brand in their everyday life (like in Munster) they won't have any affiliation to the brand...
The branch needs to approach clubs and schools all over the provience and promote rugby to the young and old - if a kid comes home and talks rugby the whole time and wants to go to a game - dad or mam will have to go with him/her... end of story - straight away you've got 2/3 more supporters....

Yep. And the way to do that in community schools is via a link to the local club where there's coaching and an infrastructure already in place.

TrueBlue · Post by **TrueBlue** » April 27th, 2006, 3:08 pm

dingbat wrote:
katz wrote:I've been following this thread and biting my lip so as not to say anything that might offend.

Club rugby is exteremly important to the development of players IMHO. I understand that alot of you feel school rugby is more important - this I both agree and disagree with on the basis that sometimes coaching standards from the ages 14 to 16 are usually better than that of the club scene. I don't agree on the basis that - most players stop playing rugby after 6th year in school, because they try the club scene for 2 months of pre-season stuff and realise that they are playing with "big boys" now because the club scene (excuse the phrase) is more "kick sh^t" rugby.

Clubs to me are sooooo important (can't emphasise enough). This is where the back bone of Irish rugy lies. I can't understand who some people here don't see that (ref back to the ticket allocations). Not all players go to rugby playing schools so where do you think this type of player will come from. See being for the midlands where, yes we have lots of clubs, but not many rugby schools, I can see where the who "D4" thing comes from. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with private schooling (before anyone jumps down my throat) I just think that the Branch needs to introduce rugby to all schools and make it more community based for all communities. This is where the big issue stems. If kids aren't fed the brand in their everyday life (like in Munster) they won't have any affiliation to the brand...
The branch needs to approach clubs and schools all over the provience and promote rugby to the young and old - if a kid comes home and talks rugby the whole time and wants to go to a game - dad or mam will have to go with him/her... end of story - straight away you've got 2/3 more supporters....
Yep. And the way to do that in community schools is via a link to the local club where there's coaching and an infrastructure already in place.

Great post katz, and agree wholeheartedly. Being from the "sticks", you realise the importance of the club scene and indeed the qualtiy of players playing in the clubs. Leinster seem to have little presence in these clubs though as opposed to the schools (and i do not have anything against schools or the sytem). An example is a guy playing with Tullamore, and played with Irish Youths last year-great SH and OH. He tours with the Irish Youths, then thats it-nothing-let through the system. Ends up down in Limerick watching his mate (also Tullamore Irish Youth) and was asked to play for UL-Bohs, and was given money to do a course in LIT. Now, he might becaome a Munster player. I am not saying that this guy wil be the next big thing, but it shows that Leinster branch have limited presence in a lot of areas.

And again relating back to the support issue, bringing the brand "Leinster" down to these clubs, and indeed schools in these communities will bring more fans. As I said on another thread, people from Tullamore would relate more to Munster than Leinster, but bring rugby through communities and banish this Leinster D4 image.

Malahide Mullet · Post by **Malahide Mullet** » April 27th, 2006, 3:28 pm

Lads I'm not saying a great club game is not important I play for one FFS but I learned more in first year then in mini from five up

Uncle Mort · Post by **Uncle Mort** » April 27th, 2006, 3:32 pm

Malahide Mullet wrote:Lads I'm not saying a great club game is not important I play for one FFS but I learned more in first year then in mini from five up

This doesn't surprise me - knowing you as I do I bet you were a very awkward youth

Malahide Mullet · Post by **Malahide Mullet** » April 27th, 2006, 3:34 pm

More Bulldozer then Ballerina