Justice

Forum for discussion of the British and Irish Lions trip to South Africa in 2009

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sarah_lennon
Jamie Heaslip
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Justice

Post by sarah_lennon »

Irish times wrote:South Africa’s players made a protest in support of banned Springboks lock Bakkies Botha in today’s third Test against the British and Irish Lions at Ellis Park.


The world champions are incensed that Botha received a two-week ban for dangerous charging on Lions prop Adam Jones during last weekend’s second Test in Pretoria.

Many astute judges feel Botha had legally cleared Jones out of a ruck, although the Wales international was left nursing a dislocated shoulder that ended his tour. Botha was cited following the incident, and then suspended, before South African management mounted an unsuccessful appeal.

Players and management, including head coach Peter de Villiers, wore white arm bands with 'Justice' written on them during South Africa’s pre-match warm-up, and the players kept them on their shirts as the game kicked off.

“The Springboks players all feel for Bakkies,” said South African Rugby Players’ Association chief executive Piet Heymans. “Despite comprehensive submissions by the attorney acting for Bakkies Botha and SARPA, where a very important point of principle was developed as to the proper application of this law, and in particular when a player lawfully binds or attempts to bind for the purpose of this law, the appeal was not successful.

“Over an extended period of time, numerous other players have charged into rucks without binding, but were either not penalised at all or received only a penalty.

“Bakkies hit a ruck just before the one in question in a similar style and was not penalised. The players want to send a clear message that they require the International Rugby Board to have an urgent and serious re-look at Law 10.4.

“The inconsistency has upset the players, and they felt very strongly that they must take a firm stance and show their unhappiness with the application of the relevant law.

“We will be consulting with our legal team next week to consider all our legal options available to assist Bakkies Botha and provide him with a sense of justice.”
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ronk
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Re: Justice

Post by ronk »

Law 10.4 ...
(j) Dangerous play in a scrum, ruck or maul.The front row of a scrum must not rush against
its opponents.
Penalty: Penalty Kick
Front row players must not intentionally lift opponents off their feet or force them upwards
out of the scrum.
Penalty: Penalty Kick
Players must not charge into a ruck or maul without binding onto a player in the ruck or
maul.
Penalty: Penalty Kick
Players must not intentionally collapse a scrum, ruck or maul.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

They can talk all they want about this being coached and Botha getting away with it all the time but the fact is that it's in print and it's in a section surrounded by other serious offences. I've always found it anomalous how some people can see the problem with shoulder charging ball carriers as a tackle but people standing (at best) in a ruck don't deserve the same protection.

Citing for the offence is rare (as are penalties) but the seriousness of the injury is often a deciding factor in citings (as it should be). It's not like it was a big punishment. It was far less than what Burger was under-punished by.

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Donny B.
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Re: Justice

Post by Donny B. »

I thought Matfield was trying to spell Jesus on his scrumcap but just got confused!

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RoboProp
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Re: Justice

Post by RoboProp »

Just ice, it is what they wanted in their drinks after the match. :D
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Donny B.
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Re: Justice

Post by Donny B. »

RoboProp wrote:Just ice, it is what they wanted in their drinks after the match. :D


C'mon even for fundamentalist christians that's pretty boring!

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RoboProp
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Re: Justice

Post by RoboProp »

Donny B. wrote:
RoboProp wrote:Just ice, it is what they wanted in their drinks after the match. :D


C'mon even for fundamentalist christians that's pretty boring!



The last thing this world needs is a drunk PDV! I can not even imagine that. Scary!
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Donny B.
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Re: Justice

Post by Donny B. »

RoboProp wrote:
Donny B. wrote:
RoboProp wrote:Just ice, it is what they wanted in their drinks after the match. :D


C'mon even for fundamentalist christians that's pretty boring!



The last thing this world needs is a drunk PDV! I can not even imagine that. Scary!


Yeah right! That motherf%~ker's half cut every press conference he does. Only explanation I can come up with anyway.

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tackle-bag
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Re: Justice

Post by tackle-bag »

That protest was arguably the biggest pile of steaming sh!t I have ever come across. It was completely inappropriate and over the top. A complete thug got banned for a fortnight as a result of what was, to be fair, a somewhat dubious call. It's not as though he's been banned for life without a hearing.

The real injustice last week was a slap on the wrist for one of the most cynical, filthy players in world rugby when he tried to rip out an opponent's eye for no reason.
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tones
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Re: Justice

Post by tones »

So woudl they acknowledge a protest about the lenient sentence for Schalk???? Just wondering, as they're claiming the high moral ground, and therefore would obviously be even handed - and justice for all!
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AidanSloan
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Re: Justice

Post by AidanSloan »

The arrogance of South African rugby is astonishing. Do the boks believe there is a different set of rules that apply to them? Surely the IRB cannot let the protest go unpunished.

orfeo
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Re: Justice

Post by orfeo »

Arrogance coupled with a massive chip on the shoulder in the sense that ''everybody is out to get us'' . that voortrekker spirit is still just below the surface methinks . Utterly inappropriate on so many levels -dismissive of the the players on the receiving end of a brutal tour- disrespectful behaviour from the host nation in a major sporting event- a complete disregard of the responsibilities that being World Champions calls for. On top all all that have these guys no sense of irony - it is still the wrong location for a bunch of mainly white guys to be running around with armbands shouting for JUSTICE .

For all the ills we attribute to the round ball game I can guarantee you Italy Spain or Brazil would be squashed if they tried it without consent. No one team or individual is bigger that their sport and certainly no Bakkies Botha and his 2 weeks - after all he will probably spend in in Sun city and not Robben island. a*$h*les

Comer Toes
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Re: Justice

Post by Comer Toes »

orfeo wrote:Arrogance coupled with a massive chip on the shoulder in the sense that ''everybody is out to get us'' . that voortrekker spirit is still just below the surface methinks . Utterly inappropriate on so many levels -dismissive of the the players on the receiving end of a brutal tour- disrespectful behaviour from the host nation in a major sporting event- a complete disregard of the responsibilities that being World Champions calls for. On top all all that have these guys no sense of irony - it is still the wrong location for a bunch of mainly white guys to be running around with armbands shouting for JUSTICE .

For all the ills we attribute to the round ball game I can guarantee you Italy Spain or Brazil would be squashed if they tried it without consent. No one team or individual is bigger that their sport and certainly no Bakkies Botha and his 2 weeks - after all he will probably spend in in Sun city and not Robben island. a*$h*les


My thoughts exactly. After years of Apartheid's direct hand in SA rugby, to see the likes Nokwe, NDungane etc. wearing 'justice' on their sleeves for such a petty reason was distasteful. It also cheapened the stance of the Iranian players a couple of weeks back who made a powerful statement about a powerful issue through their sport. Bad, bad call from Smit & co.

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ronk
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Re: Justice

Post by ronk »

Comer Toes wrote:
orfeo wrote:Arrogance coupled with a massive chip on the shoulder in the sense that ''everybody is out to get us'' . that voortrekker spirit is still just below the surface methinks . Utterly inappropriate on so many levels -dismissive of the the players on the receiving end of a brutal tour- disrespectful behaviour from the host nation in a major sporting event- a complete disregard of the responsibilities that being World Champions calls for. On top all all that have these guys no sense of irony - it is still the wrong location for a bunch of mainly white guys to be running around with armbands shouting for JUSTICE .

For all the ills we attribute to the round ball game I can guarantee you Italy Spain or Brazil would be squashed if they tried it without consent. No one team or individual is bigger that their sport and certainly no Bakkies Botha and his 2 weeks - after all he will probably spend in in Sun city and not Robben island. a*$h*les


My thoughts exactly. After years of Apartheid's direct hand in SA rugby, to see the likes Nokwe, NDungane etc. wearing 'justice' on their sleeves for such a petty reason was distasteful. It also cheapened the stance of the Iranian players a couple of weeks back who made a powerful statement about a powerful issue through their sport. Bad, bad call from Smit & co.


I missed that. What happened?

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T.C.B.
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Re: Justice

Post by T.C.B. »

ronk wrote:I missed that. What happened?


They wore green (colour of the opposition's party) wristbands as a protest over the election results at a World Cup qualifier match. They subsequently got banned for life from representing their country for it.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... otest.html
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Sarphil
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Re: Justice

Post by Sarphil »

Comer Toes wrote:
orfeo wrote:Arrogance coupled with a massive chip on the shoulder in the sense that ''everybody is out to get us'' . that voortrekker spirit is still just below the surface methinks . Utterly inappropriate on so many levels -dismissive of the the players on the receiving end of a brutal tour- disrespectful behaviour from the host nation in a major sporting event- a complete disregard of the responsibilities that being World Champions calls for. On top all all that have these guys no sense of irony - it is still the wrong location for a bunch of mainly white guys to be running around with armbands shouting for JUSTICE .

For all the ills we attribute to the round ball game I can guarantee you Italy Spain or Brazil would be squashed if they tried it without consent. No one team or individual is bigger that their sport and certainly no Bakkies Botha and his 2 weeks - after all he will probably spend in in Sun city and not Robben island. a*$h*les


My thoughts exactly. After years of Apartheid's direct hand in SA rugby, to see the likes Nokwe, NDungane etc. wearing 'justice' on their sleeves for such a petty reason was distasteful. It also cheapened the stance of the Iranian players a couple of weeks back who made a powerful statement about a powerful issue through their sport. Bad, bad call from Smit & co.


Wholeheartedly agree with you. Can you imagine if the Lions players had done the same protesting about the lenient ban that SB got? It was embarrassing and unnecessary.
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Isaac4leinster
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Re: Justice

Post by Isaac4leinster »

Its like the Scottish players winking during the anthems in 2003 WC when Martin (John?) Leslie was banned for headbutt or knee or elbow or something

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sarah_lennon
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Re: Justice

Post by sarah_lennon »

Officials from the South African Rugby Union have been summoned to attend a disciplinary hearing in Dublin next month to answer a charge of not controlling their players before the third Test against the Lions. The Springboks took to the field with armbands bearing a message of support for the second row, Bakkies Botha, who missed the match after being cited for making a dangerous challenge during the second Test and banned for two weeks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ju ... ha-protest
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