Australia v Ireland

[Danthefan]

Genia and Ioane out for Australia, along with Robinson, Alexander, TPN, Moore, Palu (I think). They're probably worse off than us in the number of first choice players missing.

Kidney has apparently said Ruddock will not be involved (source - the Sundays), which is disappointing. He's too young or it would be too much too soon or some bullshit. Typically Irish anyway.
Sexton absolutely has to start.
Murphy and Wallace should be in with a good shout.
I'd start Reddan because TOL was absolutely rubbish against NZ, even if Reddan isn't much better TOL just can't be selected again and again serving up shite.
Momentum seems to be in Ronan's favour to start in the backrow, would be an absolute disaster imo though. Jennings was carrying a knock and I don't know if he'll be fit for the weekend.
Buckley has to start.
I really hope Touhy or EOD start instead of MOD.

Thoughts?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Yeah I'd agree with all that, I just hope we actually reward form and make a few changes from the NZ game. I'd go with....

15. Murphy
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Wallace (played well on Friday and I think his game might suit playing against OZ moreso than other teams)
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. Reddan (TOL just can't start after the NZ game but options are fairly thin on the ground anyway)
8. Wallace
7. Jennings
6. Henry (Wouldn't be overly happy with him there but it won't be Ruddock and there's nobody else. At least Rocky isn't in good form and Brown is fairly average)
5. Touhy (Showed up well against NZ and would compliment DOC better than EOD who probably played better than him on Friday)
4. DOC
3. Buckley
2. Cronin
1. Healy

16. Flannery
17. Court
18. EOD
19. Ronan
20. TOL
21. ROG
22. Kearney

That'd actually be a fairly strong bench considering our injuries and suspension. If our line speed improves out of sight from the NZ game then we have a chance of winning imo.

[Oldschool]

The most worrying thing about the team to be selected is that i haven't a clue, what criteria Kidney uses to select his teams.
For example - how important is a player's experience, how important is it that he performs his basic (specialist) duties etc.
A couple of examples of why I'm confused.
Hayes is selected because of his lineout lifting.
He's a prop btw for anyone who doesn't know and his specialist skill is, that he pushes (as Dan Cole put it) in the scrum.
MOD is selected because he knows all the lineout calls and is the one that makes them - Well HELLOOOO.
BTW his position is second row. One of his specialist skills is to know the lineout calls, so that he knows when to jump in the lineout.
(Am I making any sense here?)

So given that I haven't a clue what team we will field (some would say I just haven't a clue, but bear with me).
I will focus on Australia and the way they play the game (That's tactics to the well informed BTW).

OZ play their wingers very wide in attack and all their backs are quick.
This, coupled with their ability to move the ball very quickly both from the breakdown and thru the hand,
makes them very dangerous in attack.
By keeping their wingers wide they are creating space in mid-field, by forcing the defending team to defend wider.
Giteau's try (from their only good scrum) was a good example of where the space opened up in midfield,
because the England defence had been pulled. just a little bit too wide.
England defended from in to out and the OZ's managed to get their wingers away as a result.
So it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.
How do you counter this and how do you exploit?

Kicking or maybe this should be possession.
Don't kick possession away, they will counter attack and we got an idea against NZ how effective this can be.
Kick it into the stand everytime and prevent quick throw ins.
Ditto with penalties, make sure of it, rather than length and remember if he's picked Kearney is left footed.
If we adopt this policy then we have to have a line out that is designed to contest.

Pressure.
When under pressure, keep possession, pick and go, keep possession.
The game is now all about possession.
Possession in their half means penalties.
Possession in your own half means safety.
Italy were boring as hell against us in the 6 nations, but stayed in the game by holding unto the ball and
doing nothing with it. When under pressure we have to be prepared to do the same.

Counter-attacking
We don't use Kearney enough.
No time to fix this for this game, but Joe needs to work seriously on this aspect of Kearney's game.
The guy is a flyer and all Leinster of Ireland do with his is catch high balls and run them back.
Girve came into the line more than Kearney does. Murphy showed how effective this can be against the Maories.
For the presnet, the counter attacking player should be told to only kick in emergency.
(And stating the obvious, but the counter attacker needs to be properly supported.)

Maybe Ronan should start, because his main job will be supporting the counter attacking player.
His pace alone would be a huge advantage. The only downside is that he is IMO opinion, only a 60 minute man.
So perhaps off the bench with 30 minutes to go might be the better option.
His pace at that stage of the game, with players tiring, could be invaluable.

[Cianostays]

With the idea being to look at players and give them some experience for the world cup, this is the team I'd pick vs Australia:

1 Court (He's certain to travel next year as he can play either side but he's got to be given games in order to be effective. Cian wasn't as bad against NZ imo as others here seem to think but we should look at other options)

2 Cronin (one for the future and is 3rd choice behind 2 injury prone players and he will get better at this level with more experience)

3 Buckley (superb in the loose last time out and given the sparsity of Irish tightheads getting game time for the provinces should be looked at as first choice ahead of the Bull. Needs to improve his scrummaging but it would be unfair to judge him on NZ game)

4 DO'C (injury chrisis means we can't rest him even if we wanted to)

5 MO'D/EO'D (we need a 2nd row who can run the lineout and these are the 2 guys who do it for their provinces out of the 2nd rows out there.)

6 Wallace (see DO'C)

7 Jennings (would've deserved a look in for this match anyway imo after a good season but after Jamie's utter stupidity our back row options are sparse. Ronan played well in parts against the Maori but I wouldn't consider him ahead of Jenno)

8 Henry (Jamie's stupidity opened the door for him. Played well against Maori and deserves his opportunity)

9 Reddan (TO'L should be dropped after a woeful performance against NZ. As with other players in the team, we need to see how Reddan gets on against class opposition)

10 Sexton (Standard rotation between the 2 10's. RO'G had a bad game against NZ but his performance was compounded by TO'Ls horrible service)

11 Trimble (my Irish motm against NZ. He was very good)

12 Wallace (thought he was unlucky to miss out against NZ as I felt he was in better form than D'Arce. Played well against the Maori and deserves an opportunity)

13 BO'D (no explanation required)

14 Bowe (See BO'D)

15 Murphy (played well when he came on after Rob's poor performance against NZ. Also, squad rotation should come into play and Murphy deserves his shot)

[johng]

Agree with the consensus mainly here.
Wallace, Darcy situation.
We could have both if we drop Rog. Bit of a gamble as Paddy is emergency only at 10. Paddy at 21 Darce at 12..... Might work.

Thing is, if you put Murphy in, Kearney gets the 22 jersey and Visa versa.

Back Row without Ruddock
Problem with this is... 3 7s in the squad.
I would prefer Wallace at 6 rather than 8. The man's a Flanker. Ruddock on the bench would be my call.
Ronan had a better game than him, but we are back to the 3 7s.

Stupid Bloody Jamie! Grrr.

Aussie flankers are Awesome! Jeno and Wallace are our only hope.

I think MOD has a disk problem in his back. Tuohy on the bench with Ronan might balance the 3 7s issue.

EOD and Donners in the 2nd row. Touhy covers 4,5,6. Ronan covers 7. Wallace shifts to 8 if needed.

Go with Ciano on the rest. Would be happy with his namesake OR Court at LH

[Comer Toes]

Genia and Ioane out for Australia, along with Robinson, Alexander, TPN, Moore, Palu (I think). They're probably worse off than us in the number of first choice players missing.

Kidney has apparently said Ruddock will not be involved (source - the Sundays), which is disappointing. He's too young or it would be too much too soon or some bullshit. Typically Irish anyway. First things first Kidney has said nothing - Fanning has made an assumption; big difference. When the squad for this tour was announced most people were saying 'same old same old' and that DK would start the same XV in all 3 games etc etc. He has already mixed it up more than most were expecting. Then he goes and makes a left-field progressive call on Ruddock and the reaction is 'sure he probably won't even start him against the maori anyway'. But when he does start him against the Maori the reaction is now 'but he's too conservative to start him against the Aussies...' Let's face it you'll never be happy with DK's selections and it doesn't matter if he wins a GS, it probably won't matter if he wins a bloody WC! Rhys has played about 3 professional games of rugby in his whole life! He did great the other day but he is completely new to this set-up and next Saturday is going to be a major step up from the Maori. If I was DK I wouldn't play him, for his own sake, not because he's too young but because he's too inexperienced. People often confuse the two. Pocock is young but he has a season and a half of S14 under his belt. We'll need our 6 to carry a hell of a lot on Saturday and take on a lot of responsibility in the line-out as well - Rhys is simply too new to the set-up to be landed with that level of repsonsibility in a test of this level so quickly. I wouldn't be averse to him being on the bench however.
Sexton absolutely has to start. Agreed
Murphy and Wallace should be in with a good shout. Both should start
I'd start Reddan because TOL was absolutely rubbish against NZ, even if Reddan isn't much better TOL just can't be selected again and again serving up shite. Agreed, Stringer or Reddan 50/50
Momentum seems to be in Ronan's favour to start in the backrow, would be an absolute disaster imo though. Jennings was carrying a knock and I don't know if he'll be fit for the weekend. Why would it be a disaster? This forum has been crying out a genuine, martyn williams-esque openside for years - Ronan delivered that performance against the Maori. And please don't say discipline as he just as likely to get away the things he got penalised for on Friday. Discipline tends to be arbitrary from match to match, completely depends on the ref on the night. The balance at 6 and 8 is the only reason I wouldn't start Ronan to be honest
Buckley has to start. Agreed
I really hope Touhy or EOD start instead of MOD. I've been impressed with both, also hope both are in the 22

Thoughts?

My team;
Murphy, Bowe, BOD/D'Arcy, Wallace, Trimble, Sexton, Reddan
Healy, Varley, Buckley, DOC, Tuohy, Wallace, Jennings, Henry

Cronin, Court, EOD, Ronan, Stringer, ROG, Kearney

[Comer Toes]

The most worrying thing about the team to be selected is that i haven't a clue, what criteria Kidney uses to select his teams.
For example - how important is a player's experience, how important is it that he performs his basic (specialist) duties etc.
A couple of examples of why I'm confused.
Hayes is selected because of his lineout lifting.
He's a prop btw for anyone who doesn't know and his specialist skill is, that he pushes (as Dan Cole put it) in the scrum.
MOD is selected because he knows all the lineout calls and is the one that makes them - Well HELLOOOO.
BTW his position is second row. One of his specialist skills is to know the lineout calls, so that he knows when to jump in the lineout.
(Am I making any sense here?)

So given that I haven't a clue what team we will field (some would say I just haven't a clue, but bear with me).
I will focus on Australia and the way they play the game (That's tactics to the well informed BTW).

OZ play their wingers very wide in attack and all their backs are quick.
This, coupled with their ability to move the ball very quickly both from the breakdown and thru the hand,
makes them very dangerous in attack.
By keeping their wingers wide they are creating space in mid-field, by forcing the defending team to defend wider.
Giteau's try (from their only good scrum) was a good example of where the space opened up in midfield,
because the England defence had been pulled. just a little bit too wide.
England defended from in to out and the OZ's managed to get their wingers away as a result.
So it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.
How do you counter this and how do you exploit?

Kicking or maybe this should be possession.
Don't kick possession away, they will counter attack and we got an idea against NZ how effective this can be.
Kick it into the stand everytime and prevent quick throw ins.
Ditto with penalties, make sure of it, rather than length and remember if he's picked Kearney is left footed.
If we adopt this policy then we have to have a line out that is designed to contest.

Pressure.
When under pressure, keep possession, pick and go, keep possession.
The game is now all about possession.
Possession in their half means penalties.
Possession in your own half means safety.
Italy were boring as hell against us in the 6 nations, but stayed in the game by holding unto the ball and
doing nothing with it. When under pressure we have to be prepared to do the same.

Counter-attacking
We don't use Kearney enough.
No time to fix this for this game, but Joe needs to work seriously on this aspect of Kearney's game.
The guy is a flyer and all Leinster of Ireland do with his is catch high balls and run them back.
Girve came into the line more than Kearney does. Murphy showed how effective this can be against the Maories.
For the presnet, the counter attacking player should be told to only kick in emergency.
(And stating the obvious, but the counter attacker needs to be properly supported.)

Maybe Ronan should start, because his main job will be supporting the counter attacking player.
His pace alone would be a huge advantage. The only downside is that he is IMO opinion, only a 60 minute man.
So perhaps off the bench with 30 minutes to go might be the better option.
His pace at that stage of the game, with players tiring, could be invaluable.

In summation you think DK is a retard and that your knowledge and insight into the sport of rugby union is light years ahead of one of the most respected coaches in the game at the moment. You do crack me up Old School! Agree with you on the last part though!

[Dave Cahill]

The most worrying thing about the team to be selected is that i haven't a clue, what criteria Kidney uses to select his teams.
For example - how important is a player's experience, how important is it that he performs his basic (specialist) duties etc.
A couple of examples of why I'm confused.
Hayes is selected because of his lineout lifting.
He's a prop btw for anyone who doesn't know and his specialist skill is, that he pushes (as Dan Cole put it) in the scrum.
MOD is selected because he knows all the lineout calls and is the one that makes them - Well HELLOOOO.
BTW his position is second row. One of his specialist skills is to know the lineout calls, so that he knows when to jump in the lineout.
(Am I making any sense here?)

So given that I haven't a clue what team we will field (some would say I just haven't a clue, but bear with me).
I will focus on Australia and the way they play the game (That's tactics to the well informed BTW).

OZ play their wingers very wide in attack and all their backs are quick.
This, coupled with their ability to move the ball very quickly both from the breakdown and thru the hand,
makes them very dangerous in attack.
By keeping their wingers wide they are creating space in mid-field, by forcing the defending team to defend wider.
Giteau's try (from their only good scrum) was a good example of where the space opened up in midfield,
because the England defence had been pulled. just a little bit too wide.
England defended from in to out and the OZ's managed to get their wingers away as a result.
So it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.
How do you counter this and how do you exploit?

Kicking or maybe this should be possession.
Don't kick possession away, they will counter attack and we got an idea against NZ how effective this can be.
Kick it into the stand everytime and prevent quick throw ins.
Ditto with penalties, make sure of it, rather than length and remember if he's picked Kearney is left footed.
If we adopt this policy then we have to have a line out that is designed to contest.

Pressure.
When under pressure, keep possession, pick and go, keep possession.
The game is now all about possession.
Possession in their half means penalties.
Possession in your own half means safety.
Italy were boring as hell against us in the 6 nations, but stayed in the game by holding unto the ball and
doing nothing with it. When under pressure we have to be prepared to do the same.

Counter-attacking
We don't use Kearney enough.
No time to fix this for this game, but Joe needs to work seriously on this aspect of Kearney's game.
The guy is a flyer and all Leinster of Ireland do with his is catch high balls and run them back.
Girve came into the line more than Kearney does. Murphy showed how effective this can be against the Maories.
For the presnet, the counter attacking player should be told to only kick in emergency.
(And stating the obvious, but the counter attacker needs to be properly supported.)

Maybe Ronan should start, because his main job will be supporting the counter attacking player.
His pace alone would be a huge advantage. The only downside is that he is IMO opinion, only a 60 minute man.
So perhaps off the bench with 30 minutes to go might be the better option.
His pace at that stage of the game, with players tiring, could be invaluable.

In summation you think DK is a retard and that your knowledge and insight into the sport of rugby union is light years ahead of one of the most respected coaches in the game at the moment. You do crack me up Old School! Agree with you on the last part though!

Well can you tell us what criteria Kidney uses to select his team, because we know for certain that its not form and we know for certain that its not for development

[Comer Toes]

As with all teams and all codes - DK's team selections are based on talent, form, experience, balance to team dynamics, on-the-day tactics and character/ leadership/ personality (I'll lump those 3 into 1). I would concede that there are the odd, and unfortunate, political calls still involved in the Irish set-up whether they be based on contracts or provincial representation. These however rarely effect the first XV.

There isn't a team in the world in any sport that selects the 15 (or 11) most talented players or the 15 (or 11) most in-form players. Take soccer for example, Kuyt at Liverpool and Holland - everyone says there's more talented players left out but he's probably first name on the sheet due to work-rate, honesty, temperament. Remember spain at the last European championships - how was Fabregas not playing, the masses pondered? Amazing player but the balance to team dynamic was on the ball without him - they won the bloody competition and Dunphy was still moaning!

At the end of the day, we don't see these guys training day in day out - we don't know the chemistry between certain individuals and how the lack of it in areas may effect the rest of the team. I know that Kidney, Smal and McNaughton know a hell of a lot more about Rugby union that you, I or anyone on this board will ever know and for the most part I believe they make intelligent selections for the right reasons.

There are a lot of very close calls this week so I am intrigued as to see how it will pan out.

[Danthefan]

First things first Kidney has said nothing - Fanning has made an assumption; big difference.

Kidney said he would not play Ruddock. It was reported in more than one of the Sundays.

Why would it be a disaster? This forum has been crying out a genuine, martyn williams-esque openside for years - Ronan delivered that performance against the Maori. And please don't say discipline as he just as likely to get away the things he got penalised for on Friday. Discipline tends to be arbitrary from match to match, completely depends on the ref on the night. The balance at 6 and 8 is the only reason I wouldn't start Ronan to be honest

What. The. f%~k?

What an absolutely bizarre, nonsense argument.

Anyway just to summarise your argument - Ronan played well so he should play and for some completely rubbish reason we have to ignore all the blatant penalties and points he gave away but Ruddock who also played well should be dropped. Got it.

[Comer Toes]

First things first Kidney has said nothing - Fanning has made an assumption; big difference.

Kidney said he would not play Ruddock. It was reported in more than one of the Sundays.

Why would it be a disaster? This forum has been crying out a genuine, martyn williams-esque openside for years - Ronan delivered that performance against the Maori. And please don't say discipline as he just as likely to get away the things he got penalised for on Friday. Discipline tends to be arbitrary from match to match, completely depends on the ref on the night. The balance at 6 and 8 is the only reason I wouldn't start Ronan to be honest

What. The. f%~k?

What an absolutely bizarre, nonsense argument.

Anyway just to summarise your argument - Ronan played well so he should play and for some completely rubbish reason we have to ignore all the blatant penalties and points he gave away but Ruddock who also played well should be dropped. Got it.

Nothing at all bizarre about it; McCaw or Berger will get pinged off the park one day yet not blown up once the next day. It happens to Jennings and Quinlan as well. I don't think discipline is a major issue in Ronan's game. Ruddock played well but I would prefer David Wallace at 6 - he's still one of the best flankers in European rugby. Christ above, most people wouldn't have had Rhys on the Churchill cup team (if there was one this summer) a few weeks back, and now people are aggrieved that he's not ahead of a lion's starting back row and a provincial captain??

[Danthefan]

Nothing at all bizarre about it; McCaw or Berger will get pinged off the park one day yet not blown up once the next day. It happens to
Jennings and Quinlan as well.

Whatever helps you sleep at night

Ruddock played well but I would prefer David Wallace at 6 - he's still one of the best flankers in European rugby. Christ above, most people wouldn't have had Rhys on the Churchill cup team (if there was one this summer) a few weeks back, and now people are aggrieved that he's not ahead of a lion's starting back row and a provincial captain??

Eh? What are you talking about?

[Scott]

Smal also confirmed that Tuohy would not be considered for the blindside flanker's role.

[Degz]

Will the Aussies have any of their front row back?

[Oldschool]

The most worrying thing about the team to be selected is that i haven't a clue, what criteria Kidney uses to select his teams.
For example - how important is a player's experience, how important is it that he performs his basic (specialist) duties etc.
A couple of examples of why I'm confused.
Hayes is selected because of his lineout lifting.
He's a prop btw for anyone who doesn't know and his specialist skill is, that he pushes (as Dan Cole put it) in the scrum.
MOD is selected because he knows all the lineout calls and is the one that makes them - Well HELLOOOO.
BTW his position is second row. One of his specialist skills is to know the lineout calls, so that he knows when to jump in the lineout.
(Am I making any sense here?)

So given that I haven't a clue what team we will field (some would say I just haven't a clue, but bear with me).
I will focus on Australia and the way they play the game (That's tactics to the well informed BTW).

OZ play their wingers very wide in attack and all their backs are quick.
This, coupled with their ability to move the ball very quickly both from the breakdown and thru the hand,
makes them very dangerous in attack.
By keeping their wingers wide they are creating space in mid-field, by forcing the defending team to defend wider.
Giteau's try (from their only good scrum) was a good example of where the space opened up in midfield,
because the England defence had been pulled. just a little bit too wide.
England defended from in to out and the OZ's managed to get their wingers away as a result.
So it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.
How do you counter this and how do you exploit?

Kicking or maybe this should be possession.
Don't kick possession away, they will counter attack and we got an idea against NZ how effective this can be.
Kick it into the stand everytime and prevent quick throw ins.
Ditto with penalties, make sure of it, rather than length and remember if he's picked Kearney is left footed.
If we adopt this policy then we have to have a line out that is designed to contest.

Pressure.
When under pressure, keep possession, pick and go, keep possession.
The game is now all about possession.
Possession in their half means penalties.
Possession in your own half means safety.
Italy were boring as hell against us in the 6 nations, but stayed in the game by holding unto the ball and
doing nothing with it. When under pressure we have to be prepared to do the same.

Counter-attacking
We don't use Kearney enough.
No time to fix this for this game, but Joe needs to work seriously on this aspect of Kearney's game.
The guy is a flyer and all Leinster of Ireland do with his is catch high balls and run them back.
Girve came into the line more than Kearney does. Murphy showed how effective this can be against the Maories.
For the presnet, the counter attacking player should be told to only kick in emergency.
(And stating the obvious, but the counter attacker needs to be properly supported.)

Maybe Ronan should start, because his main job will be supporting the counter attacking player.
His pace alone would be a huge advantage. The only downside is that he is IMO opinion, only a 60 minute man.
So perhaps off the bench with 30 minutes to go might be the better option.
His pace at that stage of the game, with players tiring, could be invaluable.

In summation you think DK is a retard and that your knowledge and insight into the sport of rugby union is light years ahead of one of the most respected coaches in the game at the moment. You do crack me up Old School! Agree with you on the last part though!

Reputation is a funny think. Ask the current England soccer manager.
Walking on water a few months ago and Now?
Kidney was one of the most respected club coaches, that's why he got the Ireland job.
At the time, I said (along with quite a few others) that he would be judged on how he handled the aging players and in particular ROG and HAYES.
At just past mid term my report card is saying poorly and needs to change his attitude to the job in hand.
He has avoided dealing with the Hayes problem and is struggling to deal with Rog's serious decline in form.
As regards the 6N, if I were giving plaudits to anyone, it would be BOD, the players and in particular to Rob Kearney,
who had the courage to put up his hand and call a spade a spade.
BOD was exceptional, even for him, and if you're talking respect, then that's where you should be looking.
On this tour most, if not all changes, have been enforced. There is no sign of a plan for the future.
People talk about a rotation policy. That should apply to established players, not players who are just starting
on their international careers. More bull shyte and spin from on high.
Rotation should mean DOC/POC/CULLEN for example, not ROG/SEXTON.
Rotation should mean using your bench tactically and to develop players when the opportunity arises.
The big exam is getting closer and progress in the mocks has been poor.

[sarah_lennon]

officials

Referee: Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Wayne Barnes (England), Chris Pollock (New Zealand)

[LeRouxIsPHat]

officials

Referee: Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Wayne Barnes (England), Chris Pollock (New Zealand)

Penalties galore against us so. Hopefully Giteau's kicking!

[Logorrhea]

Giteau wont kick like that two games in a row.

Lawrence pinged the French off the park against the Boks, I presume he will do the same to us.

[Donny B.]

Lawrence is a disgracefully one-sided ref who always favours the Southern Hemiphere team. Betcha he penalises us in the scrum all day and pushing too hard on the Aussie young fellas in the front row!

[Oldschool]

Lawrence is a disgracefully one-sided ref who always favours the Southern Hemiphere team. Betcha he penalises us in the scrum all day and pushing too hard on the Aussie young fellas in the front row!

Yep and he has two options:-
Engaging too soon or not engaging quickly enough.
And that's just for starters.
Is it something to do with the name Lawrence?, I wonder.