What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

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What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Its the pinnacle of test rugby heritage or no!
29
59%
Its a soulless cash gathering exercise
3
6%
Its 2nd to the 6 Nations
8
16%
Its a bookend to various law variations
1
2%
Anthony Foley
8
16%
 
Total votes: 49

Cianostays
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Cianostays »

janeymac08 wrote:I agree with Donny about the attitude to it. I'd prefer a 6ns any day to a semi-final in the RWC. I would like us to get out of our group though.

The NH teams are disadvantaged in that its the start of its season as well, where as the SH teams have had plenty of competitive matches under their belt by the time the RWC comes around in Sept./Oct. Why don't they hold it in May/June for a change?
The '95 World Cup in SA was held in May/June but, with the NH season running until the end of May every year, it's become more difficult to have it in May/June.

I would never want us to treat the 6 Nations the way that France has as far as developing players for a World Cup being the absoloute priority. However, in the year of a World Cup, I don't see anything wrong in trying players in the 6 nations to see if they were good enough for a World Cup squad.

The players aim isn't to get to a Semi-Final. It's to win it.

PS: That's not aimed at you specifically Janey but at people who seem to think all of this would be done for us to reach a Semi Final alone.
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Danthefan
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Danthefan »

I really enjoy the tournament, but I think Ireland throwing absolutely everything into preparing for it is completely daft.
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tate
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by tate »

jezzer wrote:For me, the tests against NZ are the pinnacle. There's something special and weirdly sado-masochistic about our regular Lough Derg-like pilgrimage to take on (and some day beat) the ABs that gets me so fired up.

Even though we could meet them in the RWC - and knowing their hex it might be our best chance of beating them - that almost makes me value the one-off tests higher.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap:

best post ive read on here in quite some time
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CRAZYDAVE
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by CRAZYDAVE »

Too many meaningless and uncompetitive games, make it a real turn off. It could be better to have either

1. a separate A & B World Cup running simultaneously, to generate competitive games for nations ranked from 11 or 13 down
or
2. a Sevens style Plate/Bowl/Shield second phase of the tournament for those who get knocked out after the pool matches, to give lesser nations something to aim for, other than avoiding a thumping by the AB's & other established nations
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Peg Leg
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Peg Leg »

CRAZYDAVE wrote:Too many meaningless and uncompetitive games, make it a real turn off. It could be better to have either

1. a separate A & B World Cup running simultaneously, to generate competitive games for nations ranked from 11 or 13 down
or
2. a Sevens style Plate/Bowl/Shield second phase of the tournament for those who get knocked out after the pool matches, to give lesser nations something to aim for, other than avoiding a thumping by the AB's & other established nations
What are the odds of selling out a Namibia V Canada RWC (B) final? I have to disagree with you though.... might have been a bad world cup last time round but the shite games that England played in the group was actually the making of them.
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Oldschool
Cian Healy
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Oldschool »

Cianostays wrote:
janeymac08 wrote:I agree with Donny about the attitude to it. I'd prefer a 6ns any day to a semi-final in the RWC. I would like us to get out of our group though.

The NH teams are disadvantaged in that its the start of its season as well, where as the SH teams have had plenty of competitive matches under their belt by the time the RWC comes around in Sept./Oct. Why don't they hold it in May/June for a change?
The '95 World Cup in SA was held in May/June but, with the NH season running until the end of May every year, it's become more difficult to have it in May/June.

I would never want us to treat the 6 Nations the way that France has as far as developing players for a World Cup being the absoloute priority. However, in the year of a World Cup, I don't see anything wrong in trying players in the 6 nations to see if they were good enough for a World Cup squad.

The players aim isn't to get to a Semi-Final. It's to win it.

PS: That's not aimed at you specifically Janey but at people who seem to think all of this would be done for us to reach a Semi Final alone.
As somebody who thinks a semi final slot should be our target, perhaps I should explain the thought process.
Firstly, of course I want to win the thing, so does everybody else - What planet are you on or do you think we're on? (Don't tell me it's the third rock from the sun either :wink: )
But to achieve that, you have to get to the semi-final.
Therefore my strategy would be to avoid the one team we've never beaten, hoping that they will screw up somewhere else along the way (They have previous in this regard).
Having achieved the SF and hopefully avoided our Nemesis in the process then IMO all bets are off and anything can happen.
If we meet our Nemesis in the Final, then so be it. For one thing the ref will make it a tight game for the watching Billion+ TV audience.
In such a scenario, NZ might just buckle or we might get a lucky (or BOD) bounce.
As I've pointed out before, we can win the WC, because France will beat NZ, England will beat France and we'll beat England.
Australia and South Africa are eminently beatable.
One of the things I would do to achieve the above - Bring JS as backs coach to the WC - Then we're sucking diesel.
Having a NZ coach on board would be a huge bonus, given that the WC is in NZ.
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Skinfull
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Skinfull »

I stared at this poll for quite some time (Read: not so long) before finally voting Antony Foley. When its on I'm all up in RWC fever. But right now. I'm all about ERC and ML. And in less than 20 days I'll be all about the 6N. I do enjoy it when its on and the over abundance of rugger to watch is always fun but like previous posts before me I hate that its RWC year and all must be sacrificed.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by fourthirtythree »

Skinfull wrote:I stared at this poll for quite some time (Read: not so long) before finally voting Antony Foley. When its on I'm all up in RWC fever. But right now. I'm all about ERC and ML. And in less than 20 days I'll be all about the 6N. I do enjoy it when its on and the over abundance of rugger to watch is always fun but like previous posts before me I hate that its RWC year and all must be sacrificed.

I like this post. But I don't think experimenting means undermining the 6N, Ireland have been scuppered before by not having a plan B, In 6Ns let alone world cups. I look forward to the awkward hours watching games, to breakfasts with the mates round, and to Ireland learning how to play tournaments. You know, with a squad and all those modereden ideas.
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Oldschool
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Oldschool »

fourthirtythree wrote:
Skinfull wrote:I stared at this poll for quite some time (Read: not so long) before finally voting Antony Foley. When its on I'm all up in RWC fever. But right now. I'm all about ERC and ML. And in less than 20 days I'll be all about the 6N. I do enjoy it when its on and the over abundance of rugger to watch is always fun but like previous posts before me I hate that its RWC year and all must be sacrificed.

I like this post. But I don't think experimenting means undermining the 6N, Ireland have been scuppered before by not having a plan B, In 6Ns let alone world cups. I look forward to the awkward hours watching games, to breakfasts with the mates round, and to Ireland learning how to play tournaments. You know, with a squad and all those modereden ideas.
Agree with you - We need to rotate the squad thru the 6Ns, in order to increase our chances of winning it. The fact that it's WC year shouldn't make any difference.
The same policy will be required to win the WC.
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blues_fan
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by blues_fan »

Obsession, anticipation, anxiety, depression, denial, blame, acceptance. Then repeat for the last 20+ years or so.

Being a kiwi the fascination with the 6N is lost on me(what's so great about winning a comp without the top teams involved?). However it's undeniable that the RWC is numero uno, and with every 4 yearly failure it dawns on us more and more that we're nothing special at all, IMO anyway.

It's well known we have an inferiority complex re: rugby, and winning the RWC is the only way to scratch that itch.
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Hickiefan
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Hickiefan »

blues_fan wrote:Obsession, anticipation, anxiety, depression, denial, blame, acceptance. Then repeat for the last 20+ years or so.

Being a kiwi the fascination with the 6N is lost on me(what's so great about winning a comp without the top teams involved?). However it's undeniable that the RWC is numero uno, and with every 4 yearly failure it dawns on us more and more that we're nothing special at all, IMO anyway.

It's well known we have an inferiority complex re: rugby, and winning the RWC is the only way to scratch that itch.
Sorry mate but this is one of the most ignorant comments I've read on this site and that's saying a lot! You probably don't identify with the tournament because you don't have a national interest in it. Same was I can take or leave the Trinations. The six nations, like the trinations, doesn't always serve up classic fare in every game but the nature of each fixture occurring only once home or away for me makes it the better tournament set up regardless of the rankings of the teams. NZ, Australia and SA don't always win in London, Dublin, Edinburgh and Cardiff but on your reckoning there's no point watching the matches based on ranking. Seriously!
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Oldschool »

blues_fan wrote:Obsession, anticipation, anxiety, depression, denial, blame, acceptance. Then repeat for the last 20+ years or so.

Being a kiwi the fascination with the 6N is lost on me(what's so great about winning a comp without the top teams involved?). However it's undeniable that the RWC is numero uno, and with every 4 yearly failure it dawns on us more and more that we're nothing special at all, IMO anyway.

It's well known we have an inferiority complex re: rugby, and winning the RWC is the only way to scratch that itch.
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about Ireland's selection policy.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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Hickiefan
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Re: What Does The World Cup Mean To You?

Post by Hickiefan »

blues_fan wrote: Being a kiwi the fascination with the 6N is lost on me(what's so great about winning a comp without the top teams involved?).
Matt Williams explains the whole concept quite well in today's Irish Times:
Tough to view Six Nations from Down Under

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 03543.html

RUGBY: MATT WILLIAMS on why knowledge of the Six Nations’ rich history and European rugby in general has decreased considerably in his native Australia

GROWING UP in the northern suburbs of Sydney in the 1970s, the Five Nations was a huge event. There was a 60-minute highlights show on Monday nights and all my mates tuned in. The next day we would be out playing touch, trying to recreate the actions of great players like Andy Irvine or Fergus Slattery. Imagine a pack of Aussie kids doing poor impersonations of Bill McLaren: “Edwards to Bennett, Bennett to Gravell to Fenwick, JPR Williams hits the backline, passes to JJ Williams. A great Welsh try!” Almost 40 years later those same mates still try to copy McLaren’s inspirational tone. And they are still no where near the late, great Scot’s accent.

We watched in awe as Ollie Campbell and Dusty Hare kicked goal after goal in the “around-the-corner” style that was alien to us having been raised on the great Wallaby Paul McLean’s “toe-poking” action.

The French were deeply exotic to us. The sheer speed of their back play so captivating. We would pull out a map to mark the great players clubs – Dax, Agen, Toulouse. Our school flanker would grow his hair and hope it went blonde under the sun so he could get the coolest of nicknames: Jean Pierre Rives.

Europe was the heart of world rugby. Australians were banned from playing South Africa due to apartheid. The Wallabies had just lost to Tonga in Sydney and the Kiwis did not consider us good enough to cross the ditch on a regular basis.

Many a young Aussie backpacker would save a month of bar wages just to say they visited the great rugby cathedrals of Europe – the Parc de Princes, Murrayfield, Twickenham, the old Cardiff Arms Park and Lansdowne Road.

Those days are over. The Six Nations is not shown at all on free-to-air television in Australia. It hasn’t been for over a decade. Setanta broadcast the games for a few years and ESPN provide coverage now but most Australians are unaware of this. You have to dig deep to see live matches. Either trawl the internet or find a pub open at the ungodly hour of kick-off to sit with young travellers and hope no one recognises you.

There is a place in Sydney I used to slip into at 4am on a Sunday to see Ireland play. It looked like the bar in Star Wars. Strange creatures everywhere. One of whom was eyeing me up so I knew what was coming once the Dutch courage kicked in.

“Didn’t you used to coach Scotland?” Mate, if I coached Scotland do you really think I would be in this hovel right now? That threw him off the scent long enough to get through the 80 minutes in relative peace.

Uncle Rupert’s media machine does not deem the Six Nations popular enough. Murdoch’s Fox Sports (Sky’s equivalent in Australia) dominates the sporting landscape. As a result, knowledge of the Six Nations’ rich history and European rugby in general has decreased considerably. No one in Australia knows the players’ names anymore, like childhood mates would rattle off heroic figures like Gareth Edwards, Willie John McBride and Bill Beaumont.

I still get rugby people asking me about my time with Leicester because they are unaware Leinster exists.

The coverage in recent times largely mirrors American television. The priority being their own sports – the NFL, baseball and the NBA.

In Australia primetime is dedicated to the AFL, rugby league and cricket. These are Australian-populated sports or at least dominated by Aussie success stories.

Rugby union has few friends in the Australian media due to Rupert Murdoch’s monopoly.

The advent of Super Rugby has left its footprint but nothing sells like winning in Australia. Besides the ACT Brumbies initial success, the competition has been dominated by New Zealand teams, particularly the Canterbury Crusaders, and more recently the Bulls from South Africa.

The same applies to the Tri-Nations. Hence, the coverage has suffered.

I am convinced the Heineken Cup will eventually dominate the global rugby landscape much like the Premiership in England has attracted the best footballers in the world.

This will be down to the French. The Southern Hemisphere unions cannot compete with the Top 14 salary caps so it seems only a matter of time before all the best players in the world are drawn to France. The Australian rugby administrators are hardly keen to publicise this nor are the media as they want to keep the best players at home.

But it is inevitable. Agents will see to that. Matt Giteau is the latest world-class Wallaby to announce his departure post World Cup to either Bayonne or Toulon. Money talks, players walk.

In South Africa and New Zealand the attitude is less closeted as they still believe their domestic provincial competitions – Currie Cup and the NPC – are superior to all other tournaments.

All this combines to mask the beauty of the Six Nations outside Europe. There is a lack of appreciation just how difficult it is to capture a Grand Slam. There is no home-and-away system so each nation only gets one chance to get it right. This requires perfect planning, passion, skill and luck (lots of it). All at the same time.

As it is no longer readily available, there is no awareness in the Southern Hemisphere of the actual scale of the competition; how much money is pumped into the capital cities on match weekends, the millions of people who watch it on television and the logistical challenges associated.

The power of media ownership keeps all this under wraps.

The Six Nations is one of the great reasons why rugby continues to foster a unique culture of fraternity and camaraderie. It will be evident in the surrounding pubs of Twickenham and Cardiff on match day. Or just take a stroll through Ballsbridge on Sunday, February 13th.

I am proud to write that I am only one of three Australians to act as head coach in the Six Nations. My time with Scotland (2003-05) followed Alec Evans, who guided Wales to the 1995 World Cup, and Scott Johnston, also with Wales and now coaching the Ospreys.

I still believe it is the best tournament rugby has to offer. Superior even to the World Cup. It is a shame it has skipped a few generations in the Southern Hemisphere but watching the championship as a young boy burned the concepts of rugby into my soul. For that I am grateful. I carry those memories wherever I go.

It may be ignored Down Under but the Six Nations is stronger than ever before.
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