Should Paddy Wallace or Fergus McFadden go to the World Cup?

[johng]

Not who you think WILL go, but who you think should go.

If an outhalf gets injured during a game, we have one on the bench.

If an outhalf gets injured for a longer period, we can fly one out.

We need a utility back.

Paddy has more experience.

Paddy is arguably a better distributor of the ball.

I would give the rest to Fergus.

Paddy is unlikely to be around in 2015, Fergus, barring injury looks like he is nailed on. So it would be great experience.

He covers 11 to 14, which is at least one more position than Paddy.

Oh yeah, and he is gifted as f&*k.

I'll let the rest of you add the other points, I can think of several

Oh yeah, did I mention he is gifted as f&*k.

[sarah_lennon]

I'd rather Fergus place kicking than Paddy

[awol]

Gotta be McFadden, knowing Kidding-me however it will be P Wallace.

[Dave Cahill]

Not who you think WILL go, but who you think should go.

Whichever is in the best form this season is the one that should go. If thats the criteria and its applied, then there can be no complaints whichever is picked.

It won't be though.

[Oldschool]

Surely Anthony Foley is a typo, did you not mean his son.
In answer to your question.
Are they competing for the same role/roles.
Obviuosly they will have similar skills in some areas but not all.
Also McF is more of a specialist than PW. PW has never nailed down any position
as being particularly his, which would tend to make him a journeyman.
McF can cover either centre position as a specialist.
In addition he can play on the wing.
With two other backs subs and the first choice 15 we normally select, the other positions are adequately covered.
McF is physically more robust than PW also.
Can you see where I'm going with this or do I need to go on?

[cormac]

There's a 48-hour gap between a player being deemed injured out of the tournament and a replacement being allowed to feature. We need three players in the squad capable of playing 10, and Paddy Wallace has clearly been identified as the third choice 10. I believe McFadden will only travel if others are injured or if we go with a 16/14 split.

[Cianostays]

Wallace will (and probably should) go as the 3rd choice outhalf. If Ferg continues playing for Leinster the way he's been so far this season, it could be very difficult for DK to leave him out.

[jezzer]

I have no issues with Wallace going. He and ferg are two very different players. Ferg for me is more of a 13 or winger than a 12 and certainly not a 10.

Wallace has not had near enough chances to impress at 12 in green. He's a quality act and has looked very at home facing guys as good as Nonu.

Ferg has an outside chance as an outside back. Let's see how the rest of the season pans out.

[ronk]

Wallace is a good player who I wouldn't worry about seeing in an Ireland jersey. The fact that he's fills the 3rd outhalf berth is a huge bonus in terms of finding him a place in the squad. Ideally you want a 3rd outhalf who challenges in another position, Wallace does that.

Tough on Ferg but he still has a chance of getting in there.

[Heineken2009]

Both. McFadden to be in the 22 though. I think Trimble might miss out.

[desperado]

Wallace is a good player who I wouldn't worry about seeing in an Ireland jersey. The fact that he's fills the 3rd outhalf berth is a huge bonus in terms of finding him a place in the squad. Ideally you want a 3rd outhalf who challenges in another position, Wallace does that.

Tough on Ferg but he still has a chance of getting in there.

+1. Good summary.
Also agree with Heineken2009. I think McFadden has a good chance making the squad along with Wallace. Rest of season form will (should) determine Trimble or McFadden

[johng]

There's a 48-hour gap between a player being deemed injured out of the tournament and a replacement being allowed to feature. We need three players in the squad capable of playing 10, and Paddy Wallace has clearly been identified as the third choice 10. I believe McFadden will only travel if others are injured or if we go with a 16/14 split.

There is no time in the WC where Ireland have 2 games within 48 hours. So unless someone falls over in the shower or gets hurt in training, it should not be a problem.

I think the 3rd Outhalf is a luxury that should only be included if they add something elsewhere, or have a bit of x factor.

30 players is not a lot really.

[ribs]

There's a 48-hour gap between a player being deemed injured out of the tournament and a replacement being allowed to feature. We need three players in the squad capable of playing 10, and Paddy Wallace has clearly been identified as the third choice 10. I believe McFadden will only travel if others are injured or if we go with a 16/14 split.

There is no time in the WC where Ireland have 2 games within 48 hours. So unless someone falls over in the shower or gets hurt in training, it should not be a problem.

I think the 3rd Outhalf is a luxury that should only be included if they add something elsewhere, or have a bit of x factor.

30 players is not a lot really.

I wish people would apply the same idea to scrum half and hooker aswell. I said before and I'll say it again: you can't expect to do well in the RWC if you select on the presumption that your best players are going to get injured - you have to take your chances, pick your most in form and game breaking players, and deal with what ever the tournament gives you at that time. I really don't want a repeat if the self-defeatest squad selection for the last world cup. No place for mediocrity

[ronk]

There's a 48-hour gap between a player being deemed injured out of the tournament and a replacement being allowed to feature. We need three players in the squad capable of playing 10, and Paddy Wallace has clearly been identified as the third choice 10. I believe McFadden will only travel if others are injured or if we go with a 16/14 split.

There is no time in the WC where Ireland have 2 games within 48 hours. So unless someone falls over in the shower or gets hurt in training, it should not be a problem.

I think the 3rd Outhalf is a luxury that should only be included if they add something elsewhere, or have a bit of x factor.

30 players is not a lot really.

I wish people would apply the same idea to scrum half and hooker aswell. I said before and I'll say it again: you can't expect to do well in the RWC if you select on the presumption that your best players are going to get injured - you have to take your chances, pick your most in form and game breaking players, and deal with what ever the tournament gives you at that time. I really don't want a repeat if the self-defeatest squad selection for the last world cup. No place for mediocrity

Not taking a 3rd outhalf is a big risk. It's hard to know in advance if it's one worth taking. Last time out it was work taking because we took the attitude that going down 2 (or 1!) outhalves was a game ender anyway. Paddy Wallace got a few minutes against Namibia, that was his lot.

In New Zealand we will have a situation where if Sexton or O'Gara have a knock and miss one game, we will be going into that game with no one on the bench. It's the same at scrumhalf. I don't think we have a choice at hooker because of the rules (short of repeating the brief trick of putting Healy there for the scrums and having O'Brien throwing into the lineout).

[johng]

Not taking a 3rd outhalf is a big risk. It's hard to know in advance if it's one worth taking. Last time out it was work taking because we took the attitude that going down 2 (or 1!) outhalves was a game ender anyway. Paddy Wallace got a few minutes against Namibia, that was his lot.

In New Zealand we will have a situation where if Sexton or O'Gara have a knock and miss one game, we will be going into that game with no one on the bench. It's the same at scrumhalf. I don't think we have a choice at hooker because of the rules (short of repeating the brief trick of putting Healy there for the scrums and having O'Brien throwing into the lineout).

And going down o.... to Paddy Wallace is........?

How come, if everyone objects to this in their posts, that Paddy has only one vote in the poll.

[ribs]

So in summary we take a 3rd option in 3 positions just so we have bench cover if number 1 gets injured (but not too seriously injured) - that is so risk adverse it is stupid. What is the probability of TWO injuries (neither being tournament ending) in the same position? it has got to be seriously low over a 6 week tournament.
Do we want to try to win this worldcup or waste 10% of the squad (and that 10% being the only flexibility we have) on "just in cases"?

[boyneside winger]

Doesn't matter. Neither will get to play

[ronk]

So in summary we take a 3rd option in 3 positions just so we have bench cover if number 1 gets injured (but not too seriously injured) - that is so risk adverse it is stupid. What is the probability of TWO injuries (neither being tournament ending) in the same position? it has got to be seriously low over a 6 week tournament.
Do we want to try to win this worldcup or waste 10% of the squad (and that 10% being the only flexibility we have) on "just in cases"?

It varies a little from team to team because of the way players sometimes double up but the standard is that you bring a full matchday XXII, then you have a full spare bench (7 more) and one wildcard (usually a prop or specialist back). That way if any one player gets injured you have a suitable replacement to come onto the bench.

We have one player in the entire squad who can cover two bench positions: Paddy Wallace. He's also currently and over recent years been one of the frontrunners competing for selection at 12. The current plan for the World Cup is that Earls and Fitzgerald will fight over the left wing or utility back slot when everyone is fit. My general instincts are that we'd want a winger, as our next backup. Horgan would fit the bill perfectly. He's been in brilliant form, he's a big game player, hugely experienced, he's scoring tries for fun and he is a genuine option as an impact player and once the World Cup starts building for the future is irrelevant.

[Golf Man]

So in summary we take a 3rd option in 3 positions just so we have bench cover if number 1 gets injured (but not too seriously injured) - that is so risk adverse it is stupid. What is the probability of TWO injuries (neither being tournament ending) in the same position? it has got to be seriously low over a 6 week tournament.
Do we want to try to win this worldcup or waste 10% of the squad (and that 10% being the only flexibility we have) on "just in cases"?

It varies a little from team to team because of the way players sometimes double up but the standard is that you bring a full matchday XXII, then you have a full spare bench (7 more) and one wildcard (usually a prop or specialist back). That way if any one player gets injured you have a suitable replacement to come onto the bench.

We have one player in the entire squad who can cover two bench positions: Paddy Wallace. He's also currently and over recent years been one of the frontrunners competing for selection at 12. The current plan for the World Cup is that Earls and Fitzgerald will fight over the left wing or utility back slot when everyone is fit. My general instincts are that we'd want a winger, as our next backup. Horgan would fit the bill perfectly. He's been in brilliant form, he's a big game player, hugely experienced, he's scoring tries for fun and he is a genuine option as an impact player and once the World Cup starts building for the future is irrelevant.

Thnks you have this more or less spot on Ronk - issue is not whether Wallace should be in the WC squad - its just that he shouldn't be on the bench when there are two other 10s in the squad

The 22 plus another bench gives 4 props, 3 hookers, 4 second rows, 5 backrows, 3 scrum halfs, 3 outhalfs and 7 outside backs

Ideally you would have a bit of flexibility in there a la Wallace covering 2 different groups or maybe someone who can play 4/6 (Don Ryan/Kev McL/Ferris???)

I think you have to have 3 out half options - if you don't then the two that you take have to be invovled in every game 22, increasing chances of injury. To risk going into a world cup game without someone with at least some experience at 10 on the bench would be crazy - exact same situation for scrum half and hooker

Will be interested where the wild card goes - if they go with an extra prop, it'll be a sh!t fight for the outside backs in the squad. BOD/Darcy/Bowe nailed on, 4 from Kearney, Murphy, Fitz, Earls, Trimble, McFadden, Horgan

[Sincero]

Well, I'd actually take them both, I reckon. I don't think Paddy's had a fair crack of the whip at 12. He's been a great servant to Irish rugby there, and has been very unfortunate through injury. He does cover 10 competently enough. I think people are overly critical of him in this regard, and about his defence. His tactling is grand. Ok, he mightn't put in all the hits D'Arcy makes, but who would? And he offers lots going forward- actually, if he were employed properly by a competent coach, he could be a real string to our bow. But that's unlikely unless Dickie receives his P45 in the next little while.

They only way we could leave him at home would be a call-up for Downey and a rejig. Given the attitude of Stiddie Dickie and his predecessor, that's not likely to happen either. If it did, it would arguably leave us more exposed anyway. So Downey staying at home, and Paddy flying out to sit on the bench, with Ferg most likely missing out... save for unforeseeable disaster, this is all utterly academic.

We all know exactly what Kidney will do, or at least what he plans to do. I think I'll start following the cricket instead.