Kidney OUT

[Dave Cahill]

Right! Can we start a thread about who's on them and who's not?

Drico, Rog, Doc, Leamy, Poc, Earls............... Didn't Sexto, Jamie and Seanie just sign with Leinster?

Sean did anyways

[johng]

Right! Can we start a thread about who's on them and who's not?

Drico, Rog, Doc, Leamy, Poc, Earls............... Didn't Sexto, Jamie and Seanie just sign with Leinster?

Sean did anyways

Heaslip Jennings and O'Brien are the only Leinster players signed beyond next season. (now that Sykes is gone)

[slum]

Right! Can we start a thread about who's on them and who's not?

Drico, Rog, Doc, Leamy, Poc, Earls............... Didn't Sexto, Jamie and Seanie just sign with Leinster?

Sean did anyways

yeah, johnny and jamie are definitely on central contracts. Remember the long drawn out and highly public process a year or so ago?

Leamy getting a central contract is laughable. When wallace is back he won't even be getting near a matchday squad... As pointed out earlier, Darcy was refused a central contract and SOB is on a provincial contract...

[ceemec]

The contract is traditionally announced by the employer, so in this case, they're both on central contracts as they have been announced by the IRFU. It also states in the story that 'the irfu...has secured the signatures'.

The IRFU have been giving MR a dig out since the Thomond Park debacle started by contracting guys centrally that by age profile would normally be shifted onto the provinces books, like, for example, D'Arcy.

It's a bizarre and ridiculous case if so, Dave. On the Munster site it doesn't mention the IRFU at all. Every central contract in the past that I recall has been announced as an international contract pointedly. POC, Wallace, Ross, BOD, ROG, DOC, Heaslip, Sexton and Healy in the past year or so have all been announced as signing an "international contract" with the IRFU. This release states the IRFU has secured their signatures "that will see them remain at Munster". It seems to dance around and avoid mentioning international rugby. To be honest, the release seems strangely ambiguous.

[Right_Winger]

have it from a good source that the squad is not happy with Kidney (and the backline coaching set up) and have not been for quite some time, lack of tactical appreciation, players mistreated (some subs ignored, very obvious and rigid pecking order, and kept in the dark whereas when they're at Leinster JS explains it all to them and lets them know why they're in/out etc and is no nice and honest about it it just makes them want to work even harder for them

Matt Williams was pretty clear in the IT on Sat that the backroom isn't/wasn't happy either - "Gaffney didn't get the opportunity to get his attacking principles applied to the team", "There is no doubt there was conflict in this area of the management at the RWC" & he questioned whether Mervyn Murphy is a video analyst or coach. Williams wouldn't usually criticise an individual and so he (& Gaffney) must feel strongly about it.

[ceemec]

Always suspected as much with Gaffney. He’s made a life for himself in Ireland over the past 12 years or so and had a decent job. Being the only guy who didn’t renew after the WC stood out a bit. When you factor in that the game plan over the past year showed almost absolutely no evidence of his input then you have to think he was being marginalised within the set up. The coaching team had spoken about using kicking as an attacking tactic during the WC. It’s South Africa 5 years ago. Kicking as an attacking tactic only generally works now if you use it to retain possession which gives you very little margin for error. Much better off keeping possession with attacking teams being favoured now when it comes to the breakdown. All the little things that were Gaffney’s specialities were completely absent. There were no set moves at all. He was master of a set move of first phase ball even if his ideas were getting old. We loaded our midfield with forwards and very rarely put it through the hands across the line. No decoys, no loops, no strike runners. It was no surprise to see him leave.

[Dave Cahill]

It's a bizarre and ridiculous case if so, Dave. On the Munster site it doesn't mention the IRFU at all.

the IRFU, bizarre? Surely you jest!

As for the Munster site, two words...Pat Geraghty.

[Munsterboy]

Always suspected as much with Gaffney. He’s made a life for himself in Ireland over the past 12 years or so and had a decent job. Being the only guy who didn’t renew after the WC stood out a bit. When you factor in that the game plan over the past year showed almost absolutely no evidence of his input then you have to think he was being marginalised within the set up. The coaching team had spoken about using kicking as an attacking tactic during the WC. It’s South Africa 5 years ago. Kicking as an attacking tactic only generally works now if you use it to retain possession which gives you very little margin for error. Much better off keeping possession with attacking teams being favoured now when it comes to the breakdown. All the little things that were Gaffney’s specialities were completely absent. There were no set moves at all. He was master of a set move of first phase ball even if his ideas were getting old. We loaded our midfield with forwards and very rarely put it through the hands across the line. No decoys, no loops, no strike runners. It was no surprise to see him leave.

That's one possibility but it's pure speculation and he could just as easily have been let go because he was doing a terrible job.

When he was head coach at Munster our back play was cr@p. The idea was that he would bring it up to the same level as our forward play but if anything it got worse. He seemed a nice fella but nobody down south was sad to see him go.

[Scott]

Always suspected as much with Gaffney. He’s made a life for himself in Ireland over the past 12 years or so and had a decent job. Being the only guy who didn’t renew after the WC stood out a bit. When you factor in that the game plan over the past year showed almost absolutely no evidence of his input then you have to think he was being marginalised within the set up. The coaching team had spoken about using kicking as an attacking tactic during the WC. It’s South Africa 5 years ago. Kicking as an attacking tactic only generally works now if you use it to retain possession which gives you very little margin for error. Much better off keeping possession with attacking teams being favoured now when it comes to the breakdown. All the little things that were Gaffney’s specialities were completely absent. There were no set moves at all. He was master of a set move of first phase ball even if his ideas were getting old. We loaded our midfield with forwards and very rarely put it through the hands across the line. No decoys, no loops, no strike runners. It was no surprise to see him leave.

That's one possibility but it's pure speculation and he could just as easily have been let go because he was doing a terrible job.

When he was head coach at Munster our back play was cr@p. The idea was that he would bring it up to the same level as our forward play but if anything it got worse. He seemed a nice fella but nobody down south was sad to see him go.

Agreed 100% and he did a poor job as Leinster's backs coach also imo. The question is why did Kidney pick this guy as his attacking coach?

[ceemec]

Not saying he was doing a great job or was screwed over but I definitely don't think he had much input into our play at all. Even in his last season at Leinster, we were scoring some cracking tries when we went through the hands off set piece ball such as BOD against Brive for an obvious example. His ideas had been worked out though and I don't think he could open defences all that well anymore. However, I can't recall us trying a move off set piece ball once in the entire WC. All evidence points to his input being surplus to requirement and not in keeping with the game the other coaches wanted to play.

[Dexter]

There was an article in the Sunday Times in the latter part of last year, maybe 6 months ago, which hinted that all was not well in the Ireland camp. It surprisingly went under the radar and I can't find a copy of the content.
It arose from some comments made by a squad member, after a book release IIRC.

[janeymac08]

Always suspected as much with Gaffney. He’s made a life for himself in Ireland over the past 12 years or so and had a decent job. Being the only guy who didn’t renew after the WC stood out a bit. When you factor in that the game plan over the past year showed almost absolutely no evidence of his input then you have to think he was being marginalised within the set up. The coaching team had spoken about using kicking as an attacking tactic during the WC. It’s South Africa 5 years ago. Kicking as an attacking tactic only generally works now if you use it to retain possession which gives you very little margin for error. Much better off keeping possession with attacking teams being favoured now when it comes to the breakdown. All the little things that were Gaffney’s specialities were completely absent. There were no set moves at all. He was master of a set move of first phase ball even if his ideas were getting old. We loaded our midfield with forwards and very rarely put it through the hands across the line. No decoys, no loops, no strike runners. It was no surprise to see him leave.

That's one possibility but it's pure speculation and he could just as easily have been let go because he was doing a terrible job.

When he was head coach at Munster our back play was cr@p. The idea was that he would bring it up to the same level as our forward play but if anything it got worse. He seemed a nice fella but nobody down south was sad to see him go.

Agreed 100% and he did a poor job as Leinster's backs coach also imo. The question is why did Kidney pick this guy as his attacking coach?

Comfort blanket to the Leinster players & fans as he was the Leinster backs coach and still liked in Leinster.

[janeymac08]

There was an article in the Sunday Times in the latter part of last year, maybe 6 months ago, which hinted that all was not well in the Ireland camp. It surprisingly went under the radar and I can't find a copy of the content.
It arose from some comments made by a squad member, after a book release IIRC.

Jackman?

[Peg Leg]

Comfort blanket to the Leinster players & fans as he was the Leinster backs coach and still liked in Leinster.

Badumtisch!

[22dropout]

[Munsterboy]

Always suspected as much with Gaffney. He’s made a life for himself in Ireland over the past 12 years or so and had a decent job. Being the only guy who didn’t renew after the WC stood out a bit. When you factor in that the game plan over the past year showed almost absolutely no evidence of his input then you have to think he was being marginalised within the set up. The coaching team had spoken about using kicking as an attacking tactic during the WC. It’s South Africa 5 years ago. Kicking as an attacking tactic only generally works now if you use it to retain possession which gives you very little margin for error. Much better off keeping possession with attacking teams being favoured now when it comes to the breakdown. All the little things that were Gaffney’s specialities were completely absent. There were no set moves at all. He was master of a set move of first phase ball even if his ideas were getting old. We loaded our midfield with forwards and very rarely put it through the hands across the line. No decoys, no loops, no strike runners. It was no surprise to see him leave.

That's one possibility but it's pure speculation and he could just as easily have been let go because he was doing a terrible job.

When he was head coach at Munster our back play was cr@p. The idea was that he would bring it up to the same level as our forward play but if anything it got worse. He seemed a nice fella but nobody down south was sad to see him go.

Agreed 100% and he did a poor job as Leinster's backs coach also imo. The question is why did Kidney pick this guy as his attacking coach?

No idea to be honest. Even then he was still being lauded by journos as some kind of back play visionary but there was precious little recent evidence of it. Kind of reminds me of Ashton with England - everybody said he would revolutionise their back play but he was a disaster. I think the game just moved beyond them or something.

[Peg Leg]

That's one possibility but it's pure speculation and he could just as easily have been let go because he was doing a terrible job.

When he was head coach at Munster our back play was cr@p. The idea was that he would bring it up to the same level as our forward play but if anything it got worse. He seemed a nice fella but nobody down south was sad to see him go.

Agreed 100% and he did a poor job as Leinster's backs coach also imo. The question is why did Kidney pick this guy as his attacking coach?

No idea to be honest. Even then he was still being lauded by journos as some kind of back play visionary but there was precious little recent evidence of it. Kind of reminds me of Ashton with England - everybody said he would revolutionise their back play but he was a disaster. I think the game just moved beyond them or something.

Exactly, first phase legends.
Game ping ponged until set play was initiated. These guys made a lot of hay when the game was stood still (they did a bit before that but they didnt really adapt much beyond)!

[illthinkofsomething]

have it from a good source that the squad is not happy with Kidney (and the backline coaching set up) and have not been for quite some time, lack of tactical appreciation, players mistreated (some subs ignored, very obvious and rigid pecking order, and kept in the dark whereas when they're at Leinster JS explains it all to them and lets them know why they're in/out etc and is no nice and honest about it it just makes them want to work even harder for them

have heard same thing....and tro hearsay channels there are some big irfu nobs pissed off too.

[illthinkofsomething]

I don't know if we can never have an Irish coach but we need a break. The provincial bias and media hyped rivalry thing is wrecking the national team. (What possible purpose was served by showing RO'G when Sexton missed a penalty?)

That was just the media, the same people who devised Tallaghfornia, Big Bro given that Renault bloke his own show.......on and on and on....

[TerenureJim]

have heard same thing....and tro hearsay channels there are some big irfu nobs pissed off too.

Considering the quality of rugby being played in the provinces and the lack thereof with the same players under the national coaching ticket due to the limited box kick / kick everything game plan being employed well yes they will be upset because people will stop buying the rather expensive tickets for the six nations. Look at the availability of Ireland V Italy tickets as opposed to Leinster v Cardiff, one sold out while the other well the had tickets availabel the other day. Another few poor performances and results they'll be down to the same numbers turning up as you get for soccer friendlies.