IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Forum for the discussion of all International Rugby

Moderator: moderators

22dropout
Bookworm
Posts: 227
Joined: November 6th, 2010, 6:30 pm

IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by 22dropout »

One of the reasons why i think the international team is performing so poorly is that the atmosphere and the support for the international team seems to be lost in no man's land.

Either way i cant help but think Ireland would perform much better in cauldron atmosphere found in the likes of Ravenhill, RDS or Thomond. Obviosuly not suggesting this as an alternative.

The atmosphere at times during the match on Sunday was glaringly somber. Even for a sunday afternoon kick off. Commentators mentioned this a few times during the game.

The FAI addressed this problem in soccer by selling cheap tickets to a well run supporters club which is the source of all the atmosphere during international soccer matches.

Every time i have been to an Ireland match in the Aviva there is a noticeable demographic swing in comparison to Leinster matches. There is a large contingient of old men wearing long coats. I dont doubt their support/knowledge knowledge for the game. But they just don't generate atmosphere.

The atmosphere during the world cup was completely different. All the young unemplyed Irish who left the country but now living in Australia really getting behind the team was sensational. A real outburst of national pride.

How exactly are the tickets for international matches distributed? Is their anything about these channels of distribution that might create scenarios described above. EG Old guys at the top of the food chain sorting out their buddies & their wivess for tickets ?

Their is a widening disconnection between the IRFU and supporters in comparison to whats happening at provincial level. They need to address this ASAP

User avatar
Peg Leg
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9539
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 6:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia
Contact:

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by Peg Leg »

Using the PA system to raise the crowd was more cringe worthy than the spectacle itself.
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan

User avatar
sontaran man
Knowledgeable
Posts: 278
Joined: February 20th, 2008, 2:41 pm

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by sontaran man »

The crowd didn't get into the game due to the expectance of being trollied by Wales which pretty much sums up the 1st 15 mins.
This is a recurring theme with steady deccies team, having only played to their ability against Australia and England since the grand slam.
Its kinda car crash tv, watching two sets of players that on a provincial level would almost certainly beat their opponents but at national level seem to be at sea.

Taken from sea-point on the Ire v wales thread............................

"In terms of relaxing sorry I have a different outlook, and it was the same for O'Sullivan. We have had an exceptional generation of Rugby players which have underachieved through mismanagement by consecutive Irish coaches put in place by IRFU Bean Counters (Accountants). I get frustrated every game knowing full well there is/was much more in the group of players that have represented us since the millenium that will not be brought to bear on the pitch even against mediorcre opponents. We've probably had maybe three/four competent performances during both their tenures".
Last edited by sontaran man on February 7th, 2012, 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
leinster rugby .............The Lion goes from strength to strength

User avatar
suisse
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4891
Joined: April 2nd, 2007, 12:23 am
Location: Seoul, South Korea
Contact:

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by suisse »

22dropout wrote:They need to address this ASAP
This might be easily fixed but there are far more important things to address. Rugby crowds at international level are no different to club games and in other sports. Irish international crowds have always been reactive to events on the pitch, not proactive. I always felt the atmosphere at Lansdowne Road was overhyped a little, but it was definitely better.

We're playing poorly we have an awful record in that stadium - 9 games, 3 wins - and this impacts on the atmosphere. A winning team has a better buzz about it. We don't so there isn't.

I haven't been to a Ireland 6N game since we beat England in CP - and the only game I've seen in the Aviva was Ireland v Samoa 18 months ago - but what I definitely remember from my time at home was a number of fans who found it difficult to support players from other provinces, even when we are all wearing green on the day. The national love-in for Ireland has decreased imho, since the provinces kicked on in Europe. Maybe you disagree.....

OTT
Mullet
Posts: 1501
Joined: February 2nd, 2012, 5:19 pm
Location: Blackrock

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by OTT »

With respect to the FAI they did have an extra 20,000 empty seats to play around with and these brilliant supporters only came good in the last two home qualifiers of which the last one was a party as we were 4-0 up and cruising through to the Euros. I went to every home football international from 1991-2008 (Croker and Stan finally broke me) and I dont think there was any coincidence that when we were winning the atmosphere and supporters were better then when we were losing and playing shite throughout this time.

We are spoilt at Leinster because we are playing really attractive rugby and there is a massive feel good factor about going to a Leinster game with friends and family (for me anyway) and having a great night afterwards. I was at the Wales match only because I got given tickets last Thursday otherwise I would have happily watched it on the box. The people are the same people going to both matches, the old men in their long coats as you call them go to leinster matches too maybe its just that they enjoy them more then the pedestrain, predictable one dimensional Irish games, i know thats the case for me.

Using the diaspora in NZ as an example of the type of people we need at matches isnt exactly fair, when people are abroad they cling to their identity and will go to the opening of a can of beans if they find an affiliation with their homeland in it. There is nothing to say that these people would even be bothered going to see Ireland in a match in the AVIVA (I accept theres nothing to suggest they wouldnt) its all just what ifs.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English

User avatar
brummie-leinster-man
Enlightened
Posts: 813
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 11:29 am
Location: Birmingham

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by brummie-leinster-man »

I heard lots of jeering and sections of the crowd laughing when Sexton was preparing to take kicks at goal, anybody know what that was about?

aidodo
Beginner
Posts: 10
Joined: May 6th, 2009, 11:57 am
Location: Stepaside

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by aidodo »

It was Sunday and the crowd was mostly sobre. And Ireland were muck. There's no issue with atmosphere when leinster play there on a friday or saturday.

User avatar
sarah_lennon
Jamie Heaslip
Posts: 15372
Joined: April 19th, 2006, 4:14 pm

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by sarah_lennon »

The jeering happens every game. Punter behind me didn't say a peep except when Jonno missed a kick he shouted "No", but the glee in his voice really said "Yes"

I hate the Aviva. I've decide to call it the Aviva after persisting with LR for a while now, but Lansdowne Road is dead and this horrible, bloated, zombie stands in her place
Ici, ici, c'est Dublin 4

User avatar
Hippo
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2066
Joined: January 16th, 2007, 1:48 pm
Location: D4. Yes, D4.

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by Hippo »

The attitude to Sexton from certain sections of the crowd has been a problem for quite a while now, and it seems to me that he's a target in a way that few other (Irish) players are. They don't like him at all down south, as anyone who's attended our games at Mordor could testify. This is a new phenomenon, ROG never had to deal with anything like that at the same stage of his career.
AKA Peter O'Sullivan

User avatar
deco
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2325
Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by deco »

There was a 16th man there:

The Welsh fans were excellent; their team did a lap of honour in acknowledgment.
Calendar of Leinster/Ireland fixtures: https://calendar.google.com/calendar?ci ... Z2xlLmNvbQ

User avatar
johng
Devin Toner
Posts: 18397
Joined: March 23rd, 2009, 11:37 pm
Location: Behind You!!

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by johng »

That's an interesting point you raise Sarah.

"The new stadium in Lansdown road" (bit of a mouthful) is a real piece of Celtic tiger Architecture. Stunningly beautiful and modern with great facilities for players & staff, and great corporate facilities. But..... with restrictions in view in many parts of the stadium, not all of them caused by planing restrictions. Some of them by people with too much "vision" of the cathedral they would create, and not enough "vision" of the practicalities for those sitting in it.

To finance it, lots of 10 year tickets were sold. Mainly to well heeled professionals who may be to posh/old to cheer, and go to be entertained rather than support.

That's fine by me as they are paying over 250 blips a game for the privilege. (and that's if they go to every one)

Also corporate seats feed in to this, with most of the people going "for the occasion" rather than as supporters.

The branch really need to look at how they distribute the remainder of the tickets, and perhaps do a bit to stimulate atmosphere. (Oh God.... That could fail spectacularly)

The stadium itself has a great atmosphere when Leinster play there so it's not the stadium.

International tickets seem to be used as a "perk" or a "reward". Not really sure how you can change this.

User avatar
johng
Devin Toner
Posts: 18397
Joined: March 23rd, 2009, 11:37 pm
Location: Behind You!!

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by johng »

Hippo wrote:The attitude to Sexton from certain sections of the crowd has been a problem for quite a while now, and it seems to me that he's a target in a way that few other (Irish) players are. They don't like him at all down south, as anyone who's attended our games at Mordor could testify. This is a new phenomenon, ROG never had to deal with anything like that at the same stage of his career.
All I could hear in section 122 was "Bring ann Rog" and they weren't all Munster accents either.

User avatar
kendalgerty
Knowledgeable
Posts: 498
Joined: April 7th, 2010, 5:47 pm

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by kendalgerty »

Hippo wrote:The attitude to Sexton from certain sections of the crowd has been a problem for quite a while now, and it seems to me that he's a target in a way that few other (Irish) players are. They don't like him at all down south, as anyone who's attended our games at Mordor could testify. This is a new phenomenon, ROG never had to deal with anything like that at the same stage of his career.
I can't stand this, it makes me so cross. I witnessed it at the lamentable Irelnd v Scotland game when we butchered a triple crown. Two absolute muppets a few seats down for me started with their 'Get ROG on!' after Sexton missed a penalty. It's pretty disgusting to see people hoping for an Irish player to fail in a green jersey.

I find with the interprovincial backbiting and George Hook's moronic bleatings, I look forward to the Six Nations a little less every year. The Wales game was the first home 6N match I didn't attend in maybe 5/6 years, and I wasn't too upset about it. They showed the pictures of BOD's hat trick in Paris on ATH last night, and him being carried off the pith with the Irish flag, and there was an innocence to it that's been lost. Even when I see things from not so long ago, like Shaggy's try in Twickers or the Slam that got away in 2007, I get nostalgic for what was a simpler time... I guess it's the price we've had to pay for having such provincial success.
http://whiffofcordite.com/ - Whiff of Cordite - The Rugby Nerd's Blog

User avatar
cormac
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5885
Joined: May 24th, 2006, 2:05 pm

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by cormac »

sarah_lennon wrote:The jeering happens every game. Punter behind me didn't say a peep except when Jonno missed a kick he shouted "No", but the glee in his voice really said "Yes"

I hate the Aviva. I've decide to call it the Aviva after persisting with LR for a while now, but Lansdowne Road is dead and this horrible, bloated, zombie stands in her place
Agreed, I can't stand the place. I doubt I'll be heading to many more international matches there, something I couldn't have imagined thinking a couple of years ago.

I realise that playing at the Aviva is important for Leinster's future but I miss the big match atmosphere at the RDS.
Look out Itchy, he's Irish

User avatar
Scott
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2996
Joined: April 21st, 2009, 3:24 pm

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by Scott »

Hippo wrote:The attitude to Sexton from certain sections of the crowd has been a problem for quite a while now, and it seems to me that he's a target in a way that few other (Irish) players are. They don't like him at all down south, as anyone who's attended our games at Mordor could testify. This is a new phenomenon, ROG never had to deal with anything like that at the same stage of his career.
Rory Best used to get it when he started a game ahead of Flannery. Some of the abuse he used to get at home games was disgusting. A pathetic element that are angry about something in their life.
"My final expression of thanks is to the supporters of both Ireland and Leinster with whom I have shared some special days that I will never forget" - Shane Horgan

User avatar
Sea_point
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2377
Joined: February 24th, 2006, 1:55 am
Location: Under a bag of coal....
Contact:

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by Sea_point »

Put simply I think there is inherrant doubt in the Ireland teams abaility to deliver under this and the previous coach. Even when we were clearly by a margain better than Wales/Scotland/Italy/Argentina we struggled to put them away with conviction. Currently we don't have self-confidence to put teams away in games and that is being reflected by the crowd, it anxiety on the pitch and in the stands. Boredom to at the KickBall tactics of master tactician Deccie O'Sullivan...
Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even. Muhammad Ali

User avatar
ribs
Mullet
Posts: 1176
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 7:24 pm
Location: In da Dam

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by ribs »

I miss the East and South terrace - crammed in like sardines but great atmosphere. Hundreds of people right next to the pitch. RDS is now the closest we have to that.
...a beautiful weighted pass...it is 3 on 2...it is 3 on 1...Hickie!...Magnificent!

User avatar
Mauler
Brian O'Driscoll
Posts: 3107
Joined: February 8th, 2006, 3:04 pm
Location: Building The Wall

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by Mauler »

Scott wrote: Rory Best used to get it when he started a game ahead of Flannery. Some of the abuse he used to get at home games was disgusting. A pathetic element that are angry about something in their life.
It's been happening for quite a while, I was at "the foot & mouth" postponed game in 2001 in Edinburgh and Guy Easterby was given fierce abuse because he had the cheek to have been selected ahead of Stringer. Likewise other selections such as D Humpheries v O'Gara; R Corrigan v M Horan; Eric MIller v A Foley; K Gleeson v D Wallace; M O'Kelly v D O'Callaghan etc. etc. If there was a tight call between a Munster player and someone not then they became the worst player in the world. Players such as BOD, Shaggy, Girv, Bowe, etal only get credit because there is no one good enough to challenge for their places. But it's only a matter of time before S Zebo & D Barnes and lads like them will be talked up and anyone who plays in their positions not from Munster will be suddenly not worthy to lace their boots.
'VJ Singh hits more balls than Elton John's chin' - David Feherty

22dropout
Bookworm
Posts: 227
Joined: November 6th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by 22dropout »

Would it be possible for the IRFU distribute 5K tickets to the provinces. The provinces then offer these tickets to the season ticket holders with best attendence. This can be done fairly simply becuase they laser scan each season ticket. Weakness of this is that best attenders might not be the best at generating atmosphere.

Ultimately the IRFU are in need of doing something that makes people like them again. Between NIQ at Provinces, Ticket Price fiasco at Aviva a few years back, Head coach selection policy (for some people), Head coach contract renewal sitaution (Primarily EOS), Connacht player pillaging & financing issue's.

I don't have an awful lot of faith in what they are doing at the moment. This in comparison to how Leinster branch is being run is contrasting indeed.

User avatar
Lar
Mullet
Posts: 1694
Joined: May 18th, 2011, 6:18 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: IRFU & no 16th man at the Aviva

Post by Lar »

johng wrote:
Hippo wrote:The attitude to Sexton from certain sections of the crowd has been a problem for quite a while now, and it seems to me that he's a target in a way that few other (Irish) players are. They don't like him at all down south, as anyone who's attended our games at Mordor could testify. This is a new phenomenon, ROG never had to deal with anything like that at the same stage of his career.
All I could hear in section 122 was "Bring ann Rog" and they weren't all Munster accents either.
I am sure there were plenty of Welsh fans wanting all of Faletau, Philips and Roberts to plough the No. 10 channel if ROG had been on longer....
Four Stars

Post Reply