Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

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sid
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by sid »

Oldschool wrote: Poor selection played a major part in losing the game.
Perhaps it played a major part in losing this game, but it wasn't a significant reason as to why our performance was so bad, or why it's been so consistently bad over a long period.

But I'm skeptical about how much it did affect this game. Our starting 15 should have been good enough to win because SA were quite poor today.
johng wrote:Classic bit of Sidness there.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by RichardP »

caomhan wrote:
Oldschool wrote:Dekko selected to fail and succeeded.
Of the forwards POM was the worst. He doesn't have the defensive game to cope at international level.
Murray, better than for a while (as in no brain farts), but christ is he slow and ponderous.
Timble mixed the good with the bad.
Locky should start against the Argies, it's gonna be attritional.
We need Reddan to move the ball away from the Argie mangle (A mangle is turnip for those with no farming background) mangling machine!
Zebo and McCarthy were very good.
Earls still can't pass.
So Earls back to wing and Cave to 13.
And BTW SA were shite
Kidney is a total flop as an international coach he is biased narrow minded and conservative
good round up
murray = was a disaster at 9 (reddan or marshell clearly the better options) He was significantly better than his replacement
POM = was so poor and gave away penalty after penalty Two penalties, same as the Captain. He made 7 tackles - 5 more than the Captain and the same number as Henry. Second highest number of lineouts taken also
Trimble = was poor cant kick Can't catch either
Zebo = was decent
Mccarthy= was very good
Earls agree passing is terrible (kidney munster brainfart) Poor, not terrible
Ross = Good
Strauss = good game overall
Healy = very good carried well
Donnacha Ryan = Average Barely..he should have been replaced, not McCarthy
Henry = Good worked well at breakdown
Heaslip = average Two tackles, two penalties 9m on 11 carries. He was very poor Correction - that was 11m on 9 carries.
Sexton = Good
Darcy = decent Very good first half, very poor second half


That was a very very poor south african side and we lost at home
the south africans in the coaching setup should be kept a million miles away from our backline players stick to the defense/scrum

hook giving out about black jersey then saying our flag has yellow in it :?
Some agreement, some disagreement (in red)

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sid
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by sid »

RichardP wrote: murray = was a disaster at 9 (reddan or marshell clearly the better options) He was significantly better than his replacement
Bullshit.
johng wrote:Classic bit of Sidness there.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by RichardP »

Seriously Sid? Reddan was anonymous. He shovelled EVERY ball to Sexton and if that's what you want from a SH then Stringer still does that part better. he changed absolutely nothing for the better.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by fourthirtythree »

RichardP wrote:Seriously Sid? Reddan was anonymous. He shovelled EVERY ball to Sexton and if that's what you want from a SH then Stringer still does that part better. he changed absolutely nothing for the better.


Reddan was poor. Not really the point though. We were never actually going to win at that stage. We had already surrendered to the shittest SA team I've ever seen by not actually bothering to move the ball and run.
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by RichardP »

Fair comment that 433

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by AdamK »

Peg Leg wrote:
AdamK wrote:ROG kicking it away at the end, makes me think Kidney and himself are in cahoots in a betting circle, and the two of them plot to put Ireland away for big money gains.
Thought that was Redser?
Can we take a look @ Boss V Figi?
Nope, Reddan had already completed his customary brainfart at that stage.

Come to think of it, Boss would've been perfect to start this game.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by fourthirtythree »

RichardP wrote:Fair comment that 433
He was actually really poor... :oops:
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by ribs »

Forget the provincial sh#t, forget the selections - we were just beaten by a poor team who never got out of second gear and we never even threatened their 22m line. All the players picked have played miles better for their provinces than they did today so the talent us there. That was as bad a performance from an ireland side as the dark 90s, but at least then we didn't think we had the players, the structures, or the experience to compete. Now we do, and it makes this performance so much more depressing
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by fourthirtythree »

Boss's wilderness years have coincided precisely with his genuine form. That said, it really is nothing to do with the selection. no selection would have won playing that way. Focus on their strengths FFS. What were they thinking?

Really insane.
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by ronk »

We had been delayed over 20 minutes trying to get through the underpass because of the stupid crowd management, someone near me said that the waiting was about as interesting as watching the match. I thought that summed it up.

That was one seriously bored crowd. Fans deserve better.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by Mauler »

AwayTheWell wrote:Where is all this talk of six defeats in a row coming from?

England, New Zealand x 3 and now South Africa. Were Scotland somehow awarded a game I wasn't aware of it. Looks like Tom McGurk and his cronies got their figures wrong. Good old licence payers money.
You're not including the BaBa's game in Kingsholm on 29-05-12 which we lost 29v28. I accept it was a non 'cap' game, but it was still an Ireland XV of:

Earls
Gilroy
Cave
Wallace
Zebo
O'Gara
Murray
Wilkinson
Sherry
Fitzpatrick
Tuohy
Ryan
Muldoon
O'Mahony
Henry

ROG, DOC & Trimble also played in this game and featured in tonights match v SA.

9/24 of tonights team played that night in Gloucester.

Someone above mentioned getting rid of the Provincial bias and I could not agree more. In the last number of years obviously Munster have won 2 H Cup and 2 ML (since 2006), We've won 3 H Cup and a ML, while Ulster have got to the final last season of the H Cup and are 9/9 this season. Then take a look at the Welsh clubs over the same period of time, a couple of ML Titles going to Swansea and the Amlin to Cardiff. Yet they have won 3 Grand Slams at National level. So how come the same players whom, when playing for Wales, (I accept that over the last season and a half some of them have headed off to France) can up their game to be the best in Europe and get to a RWC semi final? While roughly the same Irish players who've been so successful for their clubs, seem to transform into average players when they don an Irish jersey? Could there be any corelation about who is the coach?

At about 75mins tonight we were in the SA 22 and we looked like we have no idea of what to do with the ball, no clue of how to attack if Plan A did not work. We went through phase after phase of popping it to a runner and then forming a ruck, and repeating this ad nauseum, and eventually we got pinged for holding on. There was absoulutely no game plan or structure in place to try open up the SA defense. It was like watching the Ireland teams under P Johns in the '90s.

And as for G Hook on TV - please please please RTE put him out to pasture and get more guys like S Horgan, who know what they are talking about. His rant about M Dent being on the bench having never played in Ireland was quite pathetic, had he never heard of D O' Cuinneagain, Ireland Captain at RWC'99 or what about C
Saverimutto? who played all their club rugby for Sale while representing Ireland or indeed some of the backs whom he coached for the all of 3 matches a season, when he constantly reminds us, he was Connacht coach, such as S Geoghegan, D Curtis & J Staples. Not to mention B Smith who also played for Australia v Ireland in RWC'87, while studying in England and playing for Leicester. At least S Horgan put him back in his box about the black jersey. Is it not time that he was put out to pasture and let people like S Horgan, C O'Shea, L Toland elal. who actually know what they are speaking about analysie our great sport.
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by suisse »

My worthless contributions:

- Cian Healy: 2 years ago I thought got a rough ride from J Du P in the Aviva. Never felt than Jannie was a particularly good TH but he is a mainstay in the Sharks XV, so he must be good. Last night, Healy was transformed from 2 years ago. We all know he is excellent in the loose, and for all the talk of him being brainless/ill-disciplined, yesterday he gave away 0 penalties. He also made 13 running meters (only Henry in the pack had more) and he made 7 tackles (missing 1) - only 2 players made more tackles than Healy.

Crucially, he got one over JDP in the scrums. Healy is world class and freakishly good for his age. Jannie is 29 years old and has almost 100 Super rugby caps, 76 Currie Cup caps and 40 for the Boks. Healy, at 25, has almost the same number of Leinster caps as Jannie has super rugby caps and is closing him down internationally. For all the talk (munster#1) about Leinster not producing front rowers (fair enough) he have someone who gonna go on to become Ireland's best and most successful front rower, and will surely break all international records for his country.

- Trimble: A grafter. Tries hard. Is big, and somewhat powerful. But he's not good enough. He's heading to 50 caps and has never looked better than mediocre in most of them. True, Ireland are not using him effectively (look at how he set up Gilroy's try in TP) and you wonder what Gatland would do to him, but he doesn't have the pace or power of a Welsh outside back. We might be short with injuries, but try someone else please. Trimble is never going to be good enough to play at this level.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by blues_fan »

How did Micheál go? I see he got on for a few minutes.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by tate »

blues_fan wrote:How did Micheál go? I see he got on for a few minutes.
Won a penalty with his first scrum, carried once effectively and if it wasnt for the somewhat controversial circs would be hailed as the next great white hope of Irish tightheads.
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by Oldschool »

fourthirtythree wrote:
RichardP wrote:Seriously Sid? Reddan was anonymous. He shovelled EVERY ball to Sexton and if that's what you want from a SH then Stringer still does that part better. he changed absolutely nothing for the better.


Reddan was poor. Not really the point though. We were never actually going to win at that stage. We had already surrendered to the shittest SA team I've ever seen by not actually bothering to move the ball and run.
The half back subtitutions tells you more about Dekko than it does the players.
We had Murray/Sexton, Reddan/Sexton (For a few minutes) and then Reddan/Rog. And as usual, most of Dekko's substitutions were too late.
Fresh forwards may turn the tide, fresh backs won't. In fact when Reddan came on we were running around like headless chickens, nobody seemd to know what we were trying to do.
So the HB partnership of the HEC champions just about got the chance to say hello.
Reddan in any event is better starting than coming off the bench.
Giving murray's lack of progress, Reddan should have started and Marshall given 30 mins.
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by lummix »

That was so depressing to watch, south Africa are one of the most limited teams I've ever seen. The fact that they beat us was an inditement of the Irish coaching staff. I genuinely believe Leinster or ulster would have won that game yesterday. SA just took one off runners around the fringes and booted the leather off the ball. We were just awful, no structure, no shape, o Mahoney is the most overrated player in Ireland, he missed 4 tackles(a blindside Gould miss none) the most depressing thing is I bought a ticket for the Argentina match so I'm going to have to sit through more of this shite.

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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by tate »

Anyone else think Ross was struggling towards the end? Saw him half heartedly hit a few rucks and got absolutely done by HVDM. Initially I thought it was because of DOC but Bent had no such problems. Only one scrum I know but talking generally here.

France, by comparison, could change their front row (admittedly against Aus) and had no let up. I know at that stage the Aussies were tired but no point in having 3 FR subs if you aint gonna use them. Tactically means their starters could go for every scrum and when they tired a bit get fresh legs on for more free penalties.
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by Offiah »

Offiah wrote:All marginal calls went with what Deccie knows, Munster players.
This has been going on for far too long

Ryan hasn’t been playing well and also at 6. Touhy must be fuming.
Pom hasn’t been playing 6. Locky and Henderson have been the form players
Murray has done nothing to start. Redser should be in
Earls. No rugby under his belt. Cave or Ferg should be in
Zebo's never played 15 in pro rugby. What does Mads have to do?
Kilcoyne hasn’t played enough pro rugby. Court is in great form
Doc shouldnt be in training squads. What did Touhy do?
Rog should retire! I’d have Mads, but either of PJ or Keatley would of been better.

Hopefully I’m proved wrong over Ryan and Pom, and Zebo has a cracker.
Also hope Trimble doesn’t get caught out defensively again!

A stronger 23 would be:
Healy, Strauss, Ross, Touhy, McCarthy, Locky, Henry, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexy, Ferg, Darce, Cave, Bowe and Earls.
Cronin, Court, Bent, Ryan, Henderson, Marshall, Mads and Zebo

Stronger pack and better defensive backs but also good strike runners.
Bench has an impact and covers all injuries
Right then, post match analysis.

Ryan prob should of come off instead of McCarthy but he calls the line outs. 3 bad losses at the front which the saffas easily read. Also lacks beef against int sides.
Pom was off the pace and gave away penalties. Not int standard (yet). What was he doing with the flash one handed line out? Stupid!
Murray off the pace and offers no leadership or direction.
Earls won't pass, can't pass. Has gas but runs down allies. Wing at best
Zebo did ok but some daft kicking that didn't make touch and put us under huge pressure. Also one arm carry is childish
Coach has no confidence in Kilcoyne as left on bench. Was ruck inspecting for sa try. Is Court injured?
Did doc give away a penalty the second he came on? Why is he there?
Rog is a chicken. That kick at the end was a disgrace, all the other players couldn't believe it.
Trimble is physical going forward but not good going backward and got caught for the kick he dropped into touch at start of 2nd half which gave them territory and their try. He should of let it go into touch.
Others:
Ross did ok but held up in contact and scrum to sa, also gave away 2 penalties. Doesn't matter if vdm bored in
Strauss was v good
Healy scrummed v well and good carries thou for little yardage
McCarthy was dynamic carrying but gave away a few peons
Henry was ok. Couldn't get quick ball or turn over any sa ball. But tried hard.
Heaslip tried to carry but sa back row easily won that battle and the game.
Sexy was ok started well but faded as pressure came on. Tactics don't suit him
Darce was good in 1st half but hard to partner Earls
Bowe, was he even playing, didn't do much esp for a senior player
Cronin did what was asked of him but too little time to make an impact
Bent looks like he can hold up a scrum and can carry, so huge bonus
Too little time for Henderson
Redser seemed to get to break down quicker but slow, sloppy ball and lack of options as ended up with one man isolated runners, brainless stuff from 10 years ago. Seemed there was no attacking plan and played into sa hands.
Ferg was isolated and didn't do much
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Re: Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

Post by HenryFitz »

Oldschool wrote: The half back subtitutions tells you more about Dekko than it does the players.
We had Murray/Sexton, Reddan/Sexton (For a few minutes) and then Reddan/Rog. And as usual, most of Dekko's substitutions were too late.
Fresh forwards may turn the tide, fresh backs won't. In fact when Reddan came on we were running around like headless chickens, nobody seemd to know what we were trying to do.
So the HB partnership of the HEC champions just about got the chance to say hello.
Reddan in any event is better starting than coming off the bench.
Giving murray's lack of progress, Reddan should have started and Marshall given 30 mins.
More provincial nonsense. Reddan is one of the key decision-makers in the team. If he didn't know what Ireland were up to, it was his job to decide. To be fair to him, he presided over a couple of successful multi-phase attacks which were ruined by a predictable backline move and one short-side carry too many. It's not his fault the moves are cr@p and the game-plan is cr@p, and nor is it Murray's or Sexton's.

Reddan & Sexton got 15 minutes by the way.
lummix wrote:o Mahoney is the most overrated player in Ireland, he missed 4 tackles(a blindside Gould miss none)
1 tackle, according to the stats. On Strauss in the 1st half. Were you watching the game on the Leinsterfans braille feed?

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