Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

[Donny B.]

GT didn't have the unofficial official team in the paper today so I'm assuming he'll have it tomorrow and they'll confirm it at noon.

All but confirmed Zebo at full back though.

[lummix]

In my opinion we should be beating that south African team, it's no great shakes, anything less isn't good enough. I don't want to hear about moral victories or we pushed them close. If Leinster were going out to play them we'd expect to win and I expect no less from the Irish team.

The zebo at full back thing is ridiculous, I don't think he's ever played a professional game there. Why on earth did kidney ask to look at bowe playing there for ulster and not zebo there for munster yet he starts zebo, have we lost all reason here.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I would have Bowe at full back but don't mind us trying Zebo there. The argument seems to be that we'll need his boot from fullback, don't really buy that tbh but still think it could be an exciting move and could end up being a good option to have in the medium and long term.

And if it doesn't work then we can just move Bowe across. I'm far more worried about picking David Skrela on the wing, he's never played there before and surely it can't be legal?

[Golf Man]

In my opinion we should be beating that south African team, it's no great shakes, anything less isn't good enough. I don't want to hear about moral victories or we pushed them close. If Leinster were going out to play them we'd expect to win and I expect no less from the Irish team.

The zebo at full back thing is ridiculous, I don't think he's ever played a professional game there. Why on earth did kidney ask to look at bowe playing there for ulster and not zebo there for munster yet he starts zebo, have we lost all reason here.

I wouldn't be so dismissive of that SA team - a full Irish pack would struggle to contain that SA pack ). They have a class act at 9. Not quite as impressive behind that, but certainly not bad. I certainly wouldn't expect Leinster to beat them

Zebo at full back is odd, but whoever was started there was going to be completely out of position. A conservative and ad decsion would have been to pick Hurley or Jones, who are actually fullbacks. Madigan, Keatley and Henshaw have all played fb this year and none of them should have been picked. In that sense it had to be one of three - Earls/Bowe/Zebo - none have huge experience of the position.

Maybe he wanted to try Bowe out there and wasn't happy how he went so went to Zebo, who definitely has a better boot and has been very good in the air this season

Who would you have picked???

[simonokeeffe]

I would have Bowe at full back but don't mind us trying Zebo there. The argument seems to be that we'll need his boot from fullback, don't really buy that tbh but still think it could be an exciting move and could end up being a good option to have in the medium and long term.

And if it doesn't work then we can just move Bowe across. I'm far more worried about picking David Skrela on the wing, he's never played there before and surely it can't be legal?

he is not even first choice for Clermont in his natural position

[lummix]

I would have Bowe at full back but don't mind us trying Zebo there. The argument seems to be that we'll need his boot from fullback, don't really buy that tbh but still think it could be an exciting move and could end up being a good option to have in the medium and long term.

And if it doesn't work then we can just move Bowe across. I'm far more worried about picking David Skrela on the wing, he's never played there before and surely it can't be legal?

My point is how can he start zebo at full back in an international having never seen him play there before. He had a look at bowe 2 weeks ago for ulster in a rabo game so why at the samme point did he not look at zebo. There is no joined up thinking at all. It's like you'd pick a j2 team on a Saturday, Simon your pretty quick and can kick were going to try you at full back this week end , sure it's not a big game anyhow, it's a fn farce. It might work but surely it'd be an idea to see him play there first

[D4Blue]

I'm far more worried about picking David Skrela on the wing, he's never played there before and surely it can't be legal?

he is not even first choice for Clermont in his natural position

Why isn't Kidney picking Fofana over Skrela? This is just typical of the man's incompetence.

[Peg Leg]

How does everyone feel about POC and Healy being picked to play?
Are they ready? Is it worth rushing players back (particularly POC in this case) for an AI test match?

[jimbobjoe]

Has Zebo ever even played fullback at professional level?

[Golf Man]

Has Zebo ever even played fullback at professional level?

Doubt it - the other alternatives have little or no experience there either though

POC should not be be playing, is being rushed back. Healy and Earls have very little rugby but are probably fit enough

[Jaggo]

Golf Man, don't mean to gang up on you but...
I watched Murray in his first few games and was delighted with the speed of his pass (after the step), the box kick and his defence. But the weaknesses in his game, in my view make him a liability.
Murray runs with the ball too much, especially when you consider that he has players like SOB, Fez, Healy, Best, Ryan, Heslip, POM etc. around him. What does he think he can do around the fringes that these guys can't? After he is tackled, there is a slow ruck as he is up against big defending forwards and then there is no scrum half to whip the ball away. He is slow to the next ruck and will stand around eyeing up his options before inevitably choosing a short pop pass. My abiding memory of him is O'Connell running to a ruck and Murray swanning up after.
He needs to develop game management, be able to increase the tempo of the game and read the game better or he will never be as good his physical attributes suggest he could be.

[OTT]

I hope Zebo goes well at fullback.

I do think it is unfair on him being the least experienced of the 3 options (Earls,Bowe and Zebo). If either of the other two were selected at fullback and have a bad game in the position I feel it wouldnt have an impact on them retaining their place in the team (if not the position) Zebo might not be so lucky. So imo the right thing to do was to give an inexperienced player a chance in his natural position. Hopefully he gets through it with a few pluses anyway.

[jimbobjoe]

Has Zebo ever even played fullback at professional level?

Doubt it - the other alternatives have little or no experience there either though

POC should not be be playing, is being rushed back. Healy and Earls have very little rugby but are probably fit enough

I hope Zebo goes well at fullback.

I do think it is unfair on him being the least experienced of the 3 options (Earls,Bowe and Zebo). If either of the other two were selected at fullback and have a bad game in the position I feel it wouldnt have an impact on them retaining their place in the team (if not the position) Zebo might not be so lucky. So imo the right thing to do was to give an inexperienced player a chance in his natural position. Hopefully he gets through it with a few pluses anyway.

Yeah, but at least the other two (Earls and Bowe) do have (some) top level experience in both positions. If he is selected though, I would like to see him do well; he is very talented, despite being potentially defensively frail, and clearly enjoys his rugby. He will be thoroughly tested by the saffas though.

[Oldschool]

I would have Bowe at full back but don't mind us trying Zebo there. The argument seems to be that we'll need his boot from fullback, don't really buy that tbh but still think it could be an exciting move and could end up being a good option to have in the medium and long term.

And if it doesn't work then we can just move Bowe across. I'm far more worried about picking David Skrela on the wing, he's never played there before and surely it can't be legal?

Well they've picked Vermuelen in their back row. Sauce for the goose.

[Peg Leg]

I hope Zebo goes well at fullback.

I do think it is unfair on him being the least experienced of the 3 options (Earls,Bowe and Zebo). If either of the other two were selected at fullback and have a bad game in the position I feel it wouldnt have an impact on them retaining their place in the team (if not the position) Zebo might not be so lucky. So imo the right thing to do was to give an inexperienced player a chance in his natural position. Hopefully he gets through it with a few pluses anyway.

+1 with memories of DK continually making Luke walk down his home-made gang plank, before throwing a broken Luke overboard himself!

[Oldschool]

How does everyone feel about POC and Healy being picked to play?
Are they ready? Is it worth rushing players back (particularly POC in this case) for an AI test match?

POC is not fit and has always struggled against bigger opponents, 1 + 1 does not make two in this case (ie it doesn't add up).
Dekko was at the same sort of messing with POC's availability, prior to the NZ tour.
I suspect Healy was carrying an injury before he got properly injured (so to speak) and he'll struggle as well.

[Oldschool]

Golf Man, don't mean to gang up on you but...
I watched Murray in his first few games and was delighted with the speed of his pass (after the step), the box kick and his defence. But the weaknesses in his game, in my view make him a liability.
Murray runs with the ball too much, especially when you consider that he has players like SOB, Fez, Healy, Best, Ryan, Heslip, POM etc. around him. What does he think he can do around the fringes that these guys can't? After he is tackled, there is a slow ruck as he is up against big defending forwards and then there is no scrum half to whip the ball away. He is slow to the next ruck and will stand around eyeing up his options before inevitably choosing a short pop pass. My abiding memory of him is O'Connell running to a ruck and Murray swanning up after.
He needs to develop game management, be able to increase the tempo of the game and read the game better or he will never be as good his physical attributes suggest he could be.

Memo to Dekko and Murrain - Please read the above post carefully and learn from it!

[Golf Man]

Golf Man, don't mean to gang up on you but...
I watched Murray in his first few games and was delighted with the speed of his pass (after the step), the box kick and his defence. But the weaknesses in his game, in my view make him a liability.
Murray runs with the ball too much, especially when you consider that he has players like SOB, Fez, Healy, Best, Ryan, Heslip, POM etc. around him. What does he think he can do around the fringes that these guys can't? After he is tackled, there is a slow ruck as he is up against big defending forwards and then there is no scrum half to whip the ball away. He is slow to the next ruck and will stand around eyeing up his options before inevitably choosing a short pop pass. My abiding memory of him is O'Connell running to a ruck and Murray swanning up after.
He needs to develop game management, be able to increase the tempo of the game and read the game better or he will never be as good his physical attributes suggest he could be.

Jaggo - I agree with a lot of the above. I don't think Murray is a world beater, but I also think that there is a lot of lazy analysis on him

Last year with Munster he was frustrating but I wouldn't put all the blame on him - the game plan we were playing was desperate - and having POC as your go to carrier was never going to look good for anyone.

He does get caught up in rucks too often - but there is the arguement that some of that fault has to go to his forwards who should be protecting him more.

I don't agree that he runs too much - he was running predictably last year, particulraly off lineouts, which was frustrating - he has actually been much better in this regard this year and has scored three tries in his 7 appearances.

He is not as quick to a ruck as Reddan, but not as slow as some make out, and he doesn't take a step with every pass - that is simply not the case.

To summarise I believe that Murray has (and has demonstrated) all the attributes, but he has had difficulty in consistently getting all the parts together at the same time. I also believe that he has become a target for some fans as he is seen as representative of Kidneys perceived bias.

I don't see him as liability (certainly no more of a liability than the other options), but as I've stated elsewhere I wouldn't have him on the starting team at the weekend, I'd have him on the bench

[lummix]

Golfman, I'd have played cave at 13 with earls at 15 and zebo on the wing instead of Trimble. I understand his reasoning for playing zebo(he has the best boot) but I don't understand why he didn't at least get munster to try him out there on the same week end bowe was tried for ulster to see who went better. Under the kidney regime there appears to be no planning, there was obviously a chance that the bowe experiment wouldn't work out so why not give yourselves more than 1 option

[munster#1]

Lads, while bowe was showing what he can do at fullback jones was doing the same. So he did give himself options, some people are more interested in kidney bashing, than facts. The irish coaching staff were obviously not happy with either, and are right, neither were much good. Not sure on the merits of zebo as i've not been to the irish squad trainings, but he has been great under the high ball this season, and has a great boot on him.