Ireland v South Africa (Sat 10th Nov, 17:30)

[Golf Man]

Zebo is going great at the moment and is clearly in the better form of the two. In fairness to DK, he's coming back off hip surgery and only started his season two weeks ago. The lad [Kearney Jnr] has got 17 starts [6 tries] for Irish U20s over two seasons and two positions [winger and fullback] under his belt, he's obviously a big talent.

They played in the same Wolfhounds team against the Saxons before the Six Nations, and it was abundantly clear that Kearney had the better game of the two – an opinion validated by the fact that even the ludicrously parochial DK picked the Leinster man for the bench against Wales over his Munster counterpart.

Golfman is entitled to his opinion, but he's a bluffer who's over-keen on stating said opinions as fact, so I'll leave him to it.

I honestly don't think I'm bluffing, trolling a bit yes, but not bluffing

D Kearney is what 3rd choice full back at Leinster - I can't see him overtaking his brother or Nacewa at any stage - be practically impossible for anyone to

All fit I don't think he would get ahead of Fitz or Nacewa on the wing - again a practically impossible task

I personally think he is an intelligent player, but just do not see the spark that you see in the likes of Gilroy and Zebo. He is not an out and out threatening winger, like those two (whose scoring records are far better, at a far higher level). I think he'd be doing well to make the Leinster bench for the next couple of years, and its very difficult to see him in the Irish set up (which is where this discussion started) if thats the case

I think he, like a lot of Munster players in the last few years (Nagle being probably the best example), would do really well from moving away for a couple of years, becoming a first choice elsewhere. 2 more years of playing the Rabo aren't going to help him a huge amount. He has huge competition at Leinster and Ireland

I'm amazed at how lighly he seems to be rated - from the limited amount I've seen him at full back he is solid, but not spectacular, and he is the same on the wing, not enough pace to be a huge threat - I don't think he would get into the Ulster, Leinster or Munster HC starting teams - possibly possibly starting full back for Munster but thats even unsure. With that its hard to see how he's going to be real live option for Ireland

I'm also not sure if he is going to improve hugely - never struck me a raw talent, who would get better (again like Gilroy and Zebo)

Its my opinion, just like others have theirs - I'd be delighted for him to improve and become a starter - I just don't think he is quite good enough

[jezzer]

That's a pretty fair analysis of K2, or certainly his career so far. What fans like about him (or what I like about him) is that he scores very highly across the board in his duties whenever he plays. Pick me an Irish winger who has his all round game - only Bowe is as equally adept in all aspects. Bowe, though, is a much more dangerous attacker. Zebo is more dangerous, but not as solid.

He's a big physical presence on the wing and he uses it to good effect, something we're missing in Leinster with all our smallish, shifty outside backs. So, for Leinster anyway, he's kind of a precious commodity at a time when we has a lot of squad outside backs who flatter to deceive, or get out-muscled or who switch off sometimes. K2 always plays well, is always switched on, he can be counted on.

K2 hasn't really developed much since he broke through and I think that's because he hasn't had a consistent enough run. He's not really in international winger contention, IMO. But his ceiling is high enough to get there. He just needs a run of games. He's more likely to make it into green as a fullback though.

[cormac]

That's a pretty fair analysis of K2, or certainly his career so far. What fans like about him (or what I like about him) is that he scores very highly across the board in his duties whenever he plays. Pick me an Irish winger who has his all round game - only Bowe is as equally adept in all aspects. Bowe, though, is a much more dangerous attacker. Zebo is more dangerous, but not as solid.

He's a big physical presence on the wing and he uses it to good effect, something we're missing in Leinster with all our smallish, shifty outside backs. So, for Leinster anyway, he's kind of a precious commodity at a time when we has a lot of squad outside backs who flatter to deceive, or get out-muscled or who switch off sometimes. K2 always plays well, is always switched on, he can be counted on.

K2 hasn't really developed much since he broke through and I think that's because he hasn't had a consistent enough run. He's not really in international winger contention, IMO. But his ceiling is high enough to get there. He just needs a run of games. He's more likely to make it into green as a fullback though.

He should be getting a decent run between now and Christmas, at the very least.

[Donny B.]

It also has to be pointed out that it's a lot easier for a winger to get into the Ulster and especially Munster teams simply because there's less quality competition for places.

[Dexter]

When they played together in the A match last season, Dave Kearney looked a far better all round player than Zebo. Hell even Uncle Deccie agreed and put him in the Six Nations squad ahead of Zebo. He missed the summer tour because he had to have hip surgery. Now that he's back and has played a couple of games and done quite well too. But he may as well retire according to Golf Man because every other fit winger in the country has overtaken him in that time away bar Fionn Carr.

And you accuse Leinster fans of being one-eyed parochialists!

Kearney made his debut in 2009 - his progression should have been ahead of Zebo. This year, and arguably last Zebo has looked better than Kearney has ever looked. Same goes for Gilroy.

There's nothing parochial about it - I think options from all four provinces are better/will be better than him

As I said he is a safe pair of hands, but he is essentially a decent winger, who doesn't score whole lot, and can do a job at full back in an emergency.

He is Ian Dowling

Do any Leinstre fans really think that he is going to establish himself as a first choice in Leinster - or even in the 23???

You're letting yourself down badly there re credibility. Have you actually seen him play?

[Logorrhea]

You're letting yourself down badly there re credibility.

When did he have credibility?

[Jackie Brown]

It also has to be pointed out that it's a lot easier for a winger to get into the Ulster and especially Munster teams simply because there's less quality competition for places.

Zebo wouldn't even be on the bench for Ulster, says it all really.

[Golf Man]

It also has to be pointed out that it's a lot easier for a winger to get into the Ulster and especially Munster teams simply because there's less quality competition for places.

Not sure about that - although Ulster have Trimble/Bowe/Gilroy as wing options which is pretty high quality.Munster have Zebo/Howlett (assuming Earls is a centre), Leinster have Nacewa/Fitz (assuming McFadden as a centre)

Leinster have arguably better players, but the other provices have more out and out wingers (i.e the three Leinster playrs I mentioned aren't exactly wingers and are all arguably better in other positions (probable exception of Fitz)

Interesting that some think he's a better long term option at full back - he is possily better suited to that position - but he's not going to get ahead of Kearney and Nacewa.

[cormac]

It also has to be pointed out that it's a lot easier for a winger to get into the Ulster and especially Munster teams simply because there's less quality competition for places.

Not sure about that - although Ulster have Trimble/Bowe/Gilroy as wing options which is pretty high quality.Munster have Zebo/Howlett (assuming Earls is a centre), Leinster have Nacewa/Fitz (assuming McFadden as a centre)

Leinster have arguably better players, but the other provices have more out and out wingers (i.e the three Leinster playrs I mentioned aren't exactly wingers and are all arguably better in other positions (probable exception of Fitz)

Interesting that some think he's a better long term option at full back - he is possily better suited to that position - but he's not going to get ahead of Kearney and Nacewa.

Kearney should be getting a decent run between now and Christmas on the wing for Leinster. He's a considerably better player than both Conway and Carr and I'd rate him as a better winger than McFadden. He'll most likely get the chance to start both Clermont matches and the away game in Belfast, along with the other games. He was starting to develop into a fine player last season until injury stalled his momentum. If he gets back to that level or improves, he's likely to start a lot of games between now and the end of the season.

[simonokeeffe]

DK probably will be first choice for Leinster now that he's fit until at least the return of Lukey (if he gets a run cant see him missing out to Ferg esp with Nacewa wing only now). He's also the only Irish back I've seen roadkill would be tacklers on a regular basis last few years, sometimes from a standing start which is pretty impressive

Back to topic though: anyone else expecting agro between the 4 second rows? 4 very physical and aggressive customers. Could be good for us as it will rile the crowd up, a la Burger throwing the ball into the crowd, get them into the game more and give us a lift

BTW does McCarthy qualify through parent(s) or grandparent(s)?

[honeyec]

I'm on Zebo's jersey. They always stick me on a turnip

[sheepshagger]

I'm on Zebo's jersey. They always stick me on a turnip

[TheBear]

I'm on Zebo's jersey. They always stick me on a turnip

Huh?

[simonokeeffe]

I'm on Zebo's jersey. They always stick me on a turnip

a French turnip an all

[ronk]

I honestly don't think I'm bluffing, trolling a bit yes, but not bluffing

huh

[munster#1]

I really don't agree with this dave k bashing, he is a real talent, but to compare him to the likes of zebo and gilroy is a bit unfair. He does not seem to have the potential of either, but imo he is going to be a 25-30 caps player. He is a solid winger, has good hands, a good step and is a good defensive winger, more in the trimble mould than the hickie mould. I also don't get this assumption that he wont be starting for leinster based on try scoring ability, that has hardly held fitz or isa back. Besides isa will probably be released after his current contract. I tip dave k to become a crowd favorite at leinster and have a great pro career

[thepunter]

alot of pessimism around and it would depress you if you let it. Francis and Wallace tonight on Today FM were enough to drive you to glue sniffing or inhaling lynx through your sock. Not to mention they said Henderson was out of position covering the backrow....

I've been up for Kidney out for a long time, but I have to say we think Zebo at full back is a rarified Kidney masterstroke under the high ball tomorrow. He's the best in Europe arguably so far this season under high ball, and he has been returning acres in the Rabo. When the high ball gets them nowhere the plan B may well not be there with Habana out, Pietersen only back form injury ( anonymous in the currie cup), and poor away results in general.

Ireland FTW. Or at least to make a far better fist of it than our pundits seem to think.

[CiaranIrl]

alot of pessimism around and it would depress you if you let it. Francis and Wallace tonight on Today FM were enough to drive you to glue sniffing or inhaling lynx through your sock. Not to mention they said Henderson was out of position covering the backrow....

I've been up for Kidney out for a long time, but I have to say we think Zebo at full back is a rarified Kidney masterstroke under the high ball tomorrow. He's the best in Europe arguably so far this season under high ball, and he has been returning acres in the Rabo. When the high ball gets them nowhere the plan B may well not be there with Habana out, Pietersen only back form injury ( anonymous in the currie cup), and poor away results in general.

Ireland FTW. Or at least to make a far better fist of it than our pundits seem to think.

Pieterson was a nominee for South African player of the year, and he was immense at 13 for the Sharks in the Super 15. Would easily be in the Super 15 team of the tournament. Jean de Villiers & Ruan Pienaar are world class. They have Juan de Jongh on the bench.

Their pack of Mtawarira, Strauss, Jannie du Plessis, Kruger, Etzebeth, Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Vermeulen is going to be very, very hard to stop. Eben Etzebeth can be a force of nature. Nothing about our form or about our lineup suggests that we will win. They will glance through our team sheet and recognize about 5 names, max. That could cause a bit of over confidence, which could be a big factor.

[Ruckedtobits]

Many South Africans don't like our weather, our temperature, our food or our rugby. Historically, at least since 1960, SA don't play well against Ireland in Lansdowne Road. Picking Pat Lambie as his out-half is an extraordinary decision by Heineke Meyer. Unless they can beat up the Irish pack, Pienaar and Lambie could find themselves with slow ball on a wet, cold day with the sole option to kick it up in the air to Zebo.

If Ireland can get front foot ball, and IMO opinion our scrum will survive, but we'll have to be very smart in the line-outs, Sexton should have ball with Darce, Earls, Bowe & Zebo giving him an injection of pace and smarts. Henry, Strauss and Heaslip will give us the possibility of quick ball from breakdowns and with ball carriers like Healy, McCarthy and O'Mahony we should be able to commit their mid-field and also get some continuity to allow quick ball - if Murray realises his job is to SERVE Sexton, not treat him as 2nd option.

There will be penalties against us, we've got to make sure that they are in their half. Lambie is primarily selected because of his place kicking regardless of what is offered as other reasons.

Zebo is one of the big queries. Selection at full-back at international level is way above what most objective observers would have considered his natural ability. If Kidney's judgement on his skills is correct, he could have a huge impact on the game tomorrow, even if he gets nowhere near their try-line.

IMO, Pienaar, is vulnerable at scrum-half at international level. A great footballer, he is not an instinctive scrum-half and I just hope that Chris Henry & Strauss are so hyped by Jamie heaslip to target him from every line-out, even to the extent of conceding the odd penalty.

Less than a seven point game is my perception but then I've never been a pessimist when Ireland are playing

[Broken Wing]

BO'D missing out tomorrow means Jamie will be the only player to have started every AI under Kidney.