November Internationals 2014

[jimbobjoe]

If you're going on form would you have Ruddock in there ahead of Ryan? I think MaCarthy was picked for the extra 7kgs he has on Foley and Ruddock the same. Also I think McCarthy seems to add a bit in the scrum. I don't think there's a whole lot between them and the next guy

Jones is the one I find it hardest to get my head around. How much FB cover do we have? Are they expecting the mother of all aerial battles?

Quite surprised by the Henshaw Payne centre partnership. Not llike Schmidt to throw caution to the wind like that.

That's a good point as I have Ruddock ahead of Ryan and TOD for the added ballast. McCarthy has experience of smashing Etzebeth too which would be nice to see again.

[All Blacks nil]

If you're going on form would you have Ruddock in there ahead of Ryan? I think MaCarthy was picked for the extra 7kgs he has on Foley and Ruddock the same. Also I think McCarthy seems to add a bit in the scrum. I don't think there's a whole lot between them and the next guy

Jones is the one I find it hardest to get my head around. How much FB cover do we have? Are they expecting the mother of all aerial battles?

Quite surprised by the Henshaw Payne centre partnership. Not llike Schmidt to throw caution to the wind like that.

Payne and/or Henshaw could also be deployed at FB, with Jones a direct replacement, and Madigan (with a centre switching to FB, as Payne has consistently done all season)both able to cover FB. Tight head is where the prayers are needed.

[johng]

Tight head is where the prayers are needed.

True dat.

Kearney
Payne
Henshaw
Zebo
Bowe
Jones
Madigan

Players who have played FB in the team. FIVE of them starting. One thing FOR SURE. We will run out of players in EVERY other position before we run out of full backs.

[Ruckedtobits]

McCarthy is a totally logical selection against a team with the Saffas scrum power. Foley may be useful at line-out time but he wouldn't cut the mustard against a Boks pack, particularly if he had to enter the fray as the same time as Mike Ross is going the opposite direction and Rodney Ah You is trotting out alongside. Likewise the Ruddock call. He was going gang-busters as both ball carrier and tackler for the first six weeks of the Season and has had a recovery period in the past 10 days after Castres game.

Can't see the spread on this game being 6 points, but absolutely fascinated as to how 10,12 & 13 will go against their Bokkie opponents. Ironically, this is the SH team that Ireland fear least...I hope the guys on the park remember that!

[JB1973]

Good luck for the weekend, it's odd seeing an irish team with no darcy/bod.

Matfield vs POC as always will be a classic battle.

I fancy the boks by 6 to 10 points but I hope I'm wrong

[simonokeeffe]

McCarthy is a totally logical selection against a team with the Saffas scrum power. Foley may be useful at line-out time but he wouldn't cut the mustard against a Boks pack, particularly if he had to enter the fray as the same time as Mike Ross is going the opposite direction and Rodney Ah You is trotting out alongside. Likewise the Ruddock call. He was going gang-busters as both ball carrier and tackler for the first six weeks of the Season and has had a recovery period in the past 10 days after Castres game.

Can't see the spread on this game being 6 points, but absolutely fascinated as to how 10,12 & 13 will go against their Bokkie opponents. Ironically, this is the SH team that Ireland fear least...I hope the guys on the park remember that!

McCarthy is a logical selection with the knackered tightheads we will have

My reading of Jones is that Joe really does not trust Gilroy's defence/kicking, his eagerness to carry/get involved his high but like with Zebo last year maybe his workrate & rucking not up to desired levels
Think Ah You's superior ball carrying to Archer shaded it as thats an area we are weak in, still a damning indictment of Archer and Declan Fitzpatrick though so would love to know the story there

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if McGrath sees more time at TH than Rodney does. Think Joe will want him playing a max of 20 mins. Fair play to him for getting into the squad though. The comments about him after the Argentina tour were very harsh, really thought he was done. Still think he's very talented mind you. At this stage we can give up on him performing well consistently but hopefully we could at least perform a Stanwrightectomy and have him performing well enough over the next 12 months to be an option for the WC.

[simonokeeffe]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if McGrath sees more time at TH than Rodney does. Think Joe will want him playing a max of 20 mins. Fair play to him for getting into the squad though. The comments about him after the Argentina tour were very harsh, really thought he was done. Still think he's very talented mind you. At this stage we can give up on him performing well consistently but hopefully we could at least perform a Stanwrightectomy and have him performing well enough over the next 12 months to be an option for the WC.

Ah You is at best 4th choice tighthead though so dont think we need to worry about him too much (yet)
He is the new Tom Court

[rooster]

Simon would you seriously consider Fitzpatrick on the bench, can you imagine the state he would be in if Ross went down after 10 minutes, they would have to put him on pure oxygen at half time !

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Simon would you seriously consider Fitzpatrick on the bench, can you imagine the state he would be in if Ross went down after 10 minutes, they would have to put him on pure oxygen at half time !

Yeah but Rodney will need that after the anthems, even if he doesn't know the words.

[simonokeeffe]

Simon would you seriously consider Fitzpatrick on the bench, can you imagine the state he would be in if Ross went down after 10 minutes, they would have to put him on pure oxygen at half time !

Yeah but Rodney will need that after the anthems, even if he doesn't know the words.

I think if Ross went off that early McGrath may well move over
Not cheerleading for DF just wondering other than carrying what was the case for/against any of the guys
DF has started a test before and lasted 55 mins

[All Blacks nil]

Is anyone else uncomfortable with the fact that this Irish MD23 features 3 naturalised Irishmen, and that Ireland could also include Diack, Nathan White and a plethora of project players in the not too distant future.
A bit like the exile dominated backline of the 90's where at one stage only one Irish back was Irishborn, is Irish rugby that desperate?

[kbrowne965]

It's pretty desperate when 17 capped internationals are injured.

I have to say I think Dave Foley, Dom Ryan and Ciaran Marmion are very unlucky not to be involved.
Ryan and Foley especially given they have been playing some of the best rugby of anybody this season.

Not very confident I must admit, Boks by 8-12!! Bench is going to kill us!!

[paddyor]

Is anyone else uncomfortable with the fact that this Irish MD23 features 3 naturalised Irishmen, and that Ireland could also include Diack, Nathan White and a plethora of project players in the not too distant future.
A bit like the exile dominated backline of the 90's where at one stage only one Irish back was Irishborn, is Irish rugby that desperate?

I agree to some extent as I'm not a fan of the 3 year rule esp. for tier 1 nations. There are good cases for it. Henry Speight has a bit of a mad story and it wouldn't be fair to the likes of him to deny him the chance of representing his adopted country. There's also the case of Ruaidhri O'Connor which was bizarre.

It's a bit hypotethical though isn't it. "We could have a team of x many naturalized irish". We don't and IMO we never will have a team dominated by "imports". Some of the projects though they give us depth just aren't that good. If they contribute to the game and the communities they live in then I'm happy enough with them picking up a few Irish caps.

I assume what you are referring to was the grab a granny era of which I know little. I don't have much of a problem with the Granny rule itself but Michael bent being parachuted in was a bit of a farce and well it showed up how desperate we were for a half decent tighthead.......That was arguably worse than any of the guys coming over here for 3 years in the hope of playing for Ireland

[Medinah]

How is Henshaw not a natural 13? I haven't seen as much of him this year as I'd like (just highlights programmes), sure he seemed like a natural 15 to me when he broke through, but that's just because he's a good footballer.

The old grey fellow was just trying to prove he had a heart is all.

I'd have a tendancy to agree even if he was not a natural 15 we should be nurturing players in that position to give Ireland depth in options in that area. In fairness we have an abundance of talent in the centre but not at fullback across all the provinces. Someone needed to backup Rob and shoulder some of that responsibility is needed now and into the next 3/4 years. I can't believe Iron Shoulders D'arcy has been left out. You just cannot copensate for his strength across the middle of the field even if he has a lost a yard.

[dropkick]

I reckon Schmidt is downplaying the selection a bit. Henshaw and Payne have been picked because they've had limited time for anything else according to Schmidt but I think Henshaw is at 12 to target Pollard and his opposite number defensively. We saw what he did to Gopperth a few weeks back. He is faster and bigger than D'Arcy so that swung the selection decision IMO.

[Oldschool]

Is anyone else uncomfortable with the fact that this Irish MD23 features 3 naturalised Irishmen, and that Ireland could also include Diack, Nathan White and a plethora of project players in the not too distant future.
A bit like the exile dominated backline of the 90's where at one stage only one Irish back was Irishborn, is Irish rugby that desperate?

Not enough liginds in the 23 for you then?

[Oldschool]

I'd give Joe marks of 22 out of 23 for this selection. Something Dekko never even came close to achieving.
Jones is about the only real surprise selection and Joe has got the experience/experiment mix just about perfect.
Congrats to all the new faces in the 23 may you live long and prosper in the green shirt.
You too Joe.

[Oldschool]

Is anyone else uncomfortable with the fact that this Irish MD23 features 3 naturalised Irishmen, and that Ireland could also include Diack, Nathan White and a plethora of project players in the not too distant future.
A bit like the exile dominated backline of the 90's where at one stage only one Irish back was Irishborn, is Irish rugby that desperate?

I agree to some extent as I'm not a fan of the 3 year rule esp. for tier 1 nations. There are good cases for it. Henry Speight has a bit of a mad story and it wouldn't be fair to the likes of him to deny him the chance of representing his adopted country. There's also the case of Ruaidhri O'Connor which was bizarre.

It's a bit hypotethical though isn't it. "We could have a team of x many naturalized irish". We don't and IMO we never will have a team dominated by "imports". Some of the projects though they give us depth just aren't that good. If they contribute to the game and the communities they live in then I'm happy enough with them picking up a few Irish caps.

I assume what you are referring to was the grab a granny era of which I know little. I don't have much of a problem with the Granny rule itself but Michael bent being parachuted in was a bit of a farce and well it showed up how desperate we were for a half decent tighthead.......That was arguably worse than any of the guys coming over here for 3 years in the hope of playing for Ireland

Bottom line was tho we were desperate and I hate to say it but we had gone past even the "There's nobody else" point of desperation.
Michael Bent was legitimately qualified so the only issue was that he displaced an Irish based player who patently wasn't up to it at the time and possibly still isn't. Bent is probably the next best TH available right now although it's certainly a debatable point.

[simonokeeffe]

Diack isn't within an asses roar of the Irish 23, Ah You is there because Marty Moore (but I suppose Nathan White too) is injured

We are looking realistically at Strauss, White and Payne in World cup Squad.

But we have to compete, no point taking a lone nationalistic moral highground to our detriment

England will have Rokodugini, Barrit, and Vunipola facing NZ plus Brookes who played u18, 19, 20s for us and if they were fit another Vunipola, Tuilagi
France will have Spedding, Le Roux, Kockott and maybe some colonials

Its a matter for the IRB to sort out, 5 year residency would be my preference, but not a matter for us to sort out