31 Man Ireland RWC Squad

[simonokeeffe]

On the centres when you look at first choices for the provinces for the past season

3 NIQs (Aki, Smith, Te'o)
2 incumbants (Henshaw, Payne)
1 outhalf shoehorned in for goalkicking (Madigan)
1 Dennis Hurley
1 whoever was playing for Ulster which changed a bit but was generally Cave out of position, not a whole heap to choose from

[Munsterboy]

On the centres when you look at first choices for the provinces for the past season

3 NIQs (Aki, Smith, Te'o)
2 incumbants (Henshaw, Payne)
1 outhalf shoehorned in for goalkicking (Madigan)
1 Dennis Hurley
1 whoever was playing for Ulster which changed a bit but was generally Cave out of position, not a whole heap to choose from

In fairness Cave has been very good there for Ulster. He was first choice 12 pretty much all season and partnered Payne well. Also looked very sharp against Wales. The move from 13 has been a positive one for him.

McCloskey was good for Ulster too and is a surprisingly rounded player for such a big lad. Interestingly he was a late developer (physically) so played scrum half a lot in his teens, which helped his skills. Both are probably, after Henshaw, the best options available.

Marshall missed too many games because of concussion. Safer to leave him out of the reckoning for now. Olding is a class act but poor lad has been very unlucky with the knee.

If they're not bringing a 3rd SH I think they should bring Cave. But they won't.

[Fireworks]

On the centres when you look at first choices for the provinces for the past season

3 NIQs (Aki, Smith, Te'o)
2 incumbants (Henshaw, Payne)
1 outhalf shoehorned in for goalkicking (Madigan)
1 Dennis Hurley
1 whoever was playing for Ulster which changed a bit but was generally Cave out of position, not a whole heap to choose from

In fairness Cave has been very good there for Ulster. He was first choice 12 pretty much all season and partnered Payne well. Also looked very sharp against Wales. The move from 13 has been a positive one for him.

McCloskey was good for Ulster too and is a surprisingly rounded player for such a big lad. Interestingly he was a late developer (physically) so played scrum half a lot in his teens, which helped his skills. Both are probably, after Henshaw, the best options available.

Marshall missed too many games because of concussion. Safer to leave him out of the reckoning for now. Olding is a class act but poor lad has been very unlucky with the knee.

If they're not bringing a 3rd SH I think they should bring Cave. But they won't.

Cave is probably the best fit 12 backup for Henshaw but with only 31 spots in a squad he may not be good enough to make up for the lack of flexibility in covering other positions. The problem with the 31 man squad is sometimes the better player gets left behind because of the needs of the squad.

[matt]

Forwards pick themselves with Kilcoyne, Herring, Furlong, Tuohy, and Conan on Standby.

Would definitely go with 2 scrum halfs leaving 9 outside backs for 5 positions.

Henshaw, Payne, R.kearney, D.Kearney, Fitzgerald, Bowe, Trimble gives 7. Last 2 probably Earls & either Zebo or Jones. Think Joe will go for Jones as specialist full back cover.

[Golf Man]

First off don't see how forwards pick themselves. The prop situation With healy/moore/bent is still very very fluid. healy for sure will be named but moore not so sure

no chance there will be only 2 sh that was never a runner. I think madigan is back up to second choice 10 in case of injury but Jackson may well start v Romania as a better use of resources.

big call is outside backs and haven't a clue what he will go. We know rh jp rk tb will go (along with I'm covering 12). I think he has to decide who his first choice winger outside of tb is - to me thats probably at despite the injury so he gets in . He then has to decide his 13 cover (Fitz or earls). He then decides his 15 cover Jones or zebo (obviously these two decisions are not stand alone and their ability to cover other positions comes into it) the two "losers " in these selections go back into the hat with DK and f mcf for the final spot. I don't think any other flexibility will come into it - we would have seen it so far if was an option (ie Earls DK or Fitz covering fb) we have seen 6 star ter on the wings and 3 at fb as well as plenty of options off the bench which is great.

my big concern is the game plan I have no issue in general but it's pretty clear that it will only get us so far. I would hate to die wondering in this we. The selections in the back 3 will tell a lot - if we go with Jones and d Kearney who have done nothing wrong it's hard to see that we have anything apart from a single game plan with nothing to fall back on if needed. ill absolutely trust schmidt but have an awful feeling he is going to go very conservative on all selections. can only wait and see i suppose

[simonokeeffe]

I think by being poor defensively at 13 Luke may have fallen out/behind Jones and/or Zebo

[munster#1]

After watching Fitz on the wing and centre in the warm ups it's hard to see how he will be selected.

Imo dave k overtook him yesterday as wing cover, and Fitz displayed that his position is on the wing.

On current form Fitz is behind bowe, Trimble, earls, dave k and zebo as a winger.

[Medinah]

As regards Luke Fitz they don't call rock the masters of mediocrity for nothing - they win everything but look at the state of them - they're like Russia.

[Not_Today]

After watching Fitz on the wing and centre in the warm ups it's hard to see how he will be selected.

Imo dave k overtook him yesterday as wing cover, and Fitz displayed that his position is on the wing.

On current form Fitz is behind bowe, Trimble, earls, dave k and zebo as a winger.

Yet, there's a view out there that Fitz is the best 13 in Ireland at the moment and he has also nailed down the wing spot.

Fwiw, I think he'll travel.

[hugonaut]

I think by being poor defensively at 13 Luke may have fallen out/behind Jones and/or Zebo

Didn't think he was poor defensively at all, SOK – 8/0 on tackles, no turnovers conceded and no penalties conceded. I thought that his attacking and decision-making in attack was pretty bloody ordinary though and showed the outside-centre as inside-winger mindset: he got the ball 13 times and his K/P/R was 1/1/11 [with no offloads]. When Gatland talked about Ireland playing narrowly, he wasn't just throwing any old criticism around. While the one kick that Fitzgerald put in was actually a decent grubber through for DK, that only makes twice out of thirteen times that the ball got past him when we were on the attack.

There are many obvious points of similarity between Fitzgerald and Earls - both of them have fathers who were impressive players in their own right, both of them were born in the same year, both of them have played the same positions in the backs, both of them are blond and made of glass etc. On the other hand, there's a pretty obvious and really significant disparity in size between them. Fitzgerald is 185cm and 98kg; Earls is 178cm and 90kg [source: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... reland.php ]. Fitzgerald is about the same size as Andrew Trimble [the same height and a kilo lighter], Earls is about the same size as Ian Madigan [the same weight and a centimetre shorter].

I think Earls is quicker, a better passer, and obviously has a better try-scoring record at test level, but that there's a pendulum effect on the opposite side of the ball: Fitzgerald is bigger, stronger, and more defensively secure.

Over his two starts in this mini series, Earls is looking at a tackle count of made 16/missed 5 – and he got knocked out cold making one of the sixteen – with his opposite numbers in those games being Alex Cuthbert [35 caps/16 tries] and Tyler Morgan [1 cap/0 tries]. Over the same period, Fitzgerald's tackle count is made 12/missed 1, with his opposite numbers being Sean Lamont [96 caps/14 tries] and Scott Williams [31 caps/9 tries].

[ceemec]

Have watched the game 3 times now. Fitzgerald was extremely ordinary in attack. He did very little of note. But he didn't make any errors either. It was the sort of performance that people have criticised Darren Cave for previously as "not taking his opportunity". He defended quite well against the first choice Welsh partnership, putting his man to ground and bouncing back into the line repeatedly. Cleared out well and put in a good support effort for the penalty win by POM where he locked in POM's position and got at the ball too. His second half showing was anonymous and a player shouldn't be cramping up after 50 minutes which raises questions about his fitness. But will never offer anything more than an option against a second tier nation in the centre.

Earls had his worst game in green for some time. I thought he had a sloppy game initially but after watching a few times, it was worse again and very error prone. 3 knock ons in the first half (one spilled when running it back, one dropped when Murray's inside pass was a little far ahead of him and not entirely his fault and one where the ball bounced up after the crossfield which was tricky but you'd back him to gather) as well as dropping another inside pass from Sexton when he got ahead of it but knocked it backwards. Got outjumped in the air in his own 22 also (just before POM won the penalty) when Wales bombed a crossfield right on him. Cuthbert slipped out of his tackle on the sideline in the first half and others had to put him down. Second half was better from him. Got turned over at a ruck early on when he attempted squeeze ball initially before adjusting but his support was very slow to arrive. The next 10 minutes were extremely industrious and went on to make a few good tackles on North and Cuthbert before knocking himself out on North's knee.

Earls will make more hay certainly against the lower tier teams and I don't think either of them will play in the Italy or France games if they do make the plane.

[Oldschool]

After watching Fitz on the wing and centre in the warm ups it's hard to see how he will be selected.

Imo dave k overtook him yesterday as wing cover, and Fitz displayed that his position is on the wing.

On current form Fitz is behind bowe, Trimble, earls, dave k and zebo as a winger.

Yet, there's a view out there that Fitz is the best 13 in Ireland at the moment and he has also nailed down the wing spot.

Fwiw, I think he'll travel.

Regardless of bias, there is no way JS can risk having Luke and Earls in the same match day 23.
That means they could both lose out.
If even one of them goes it's likely to be Luke and that's purely because Earls got knocked out on Saturday (I believe )
Even taking that into account it's unlikely Luke will go, the risk/reward just doesn't add up.
The same can be said of Earls if he is fit and ok.

[CiaranIrl]

No rumours yet? Haven't heard or seem much at all - thought some leaks would be appearing by this morning. Some gossip that he might bring 2 out halves and leave Jackson behind, or possibly only 4 half backs in total, leaving both Boss / Marmion behind as well. Seems a bit far out there to me though. Would make slightly more sense if he is going to go with an 18/13 split and having 6 props in the squad. The defensive system on Saturday did seem set up to protect the half backs though, so that sort of tallies.

[Fireworks]

No rumours yet? Haven't heard or seem much at all - thought some leaks would be appearing by this morning. Some gossip that he might bring 2 out halves and leave Jackson behind, or possibly only 4 half backs in total, leaving both Boss / Marmion behind as well. Seems a bit far out there to me though. Would make slightly more sense if he is going to go with an 18/13 split and having 6 props in the squad. The defensive system on Saturday did seem set up to protect the half backs though, so that sort of tallies.

At this point it feels like further speculation is just torturing myself for no point. The decision has been made and the guys know who is travelling and who has missed out. I am looking forward to seeing the squad and know that inevitable injuries mean that the 31 selected will not be the final number involved. In Joe we must trust.

[simonokeeffe]

I think by being poor defensively at 13 Luke may have fallen out/behind Jones and/or Zebo

Didn't think he was poor defensively at all, SOK – 8/0 on tackles, no turnovers conceded and no penalties conceded. I thought that his attacking and decision-making in attack was pretty bloody ordinary though and showed the outside-centre as inside-winger mindset: he got the ball 13 times and his K/P/R was 1/1/11 [with no offloads]. When Gatland talked about Ireland playing narrowly, he wasn't just throwing any old criticism around. While the one kick that Fitzgerald put in was actually a decent grubber through for DK, that only makes twice out of thirteen times that the ball got past him when we were on the attack.

going off stats he defended ok

didnt notice it at the game but when I watched it back he was far too passive in defence IMO, linespeed/aggressiveness/closing space even when carrier was obvious wasnt there
he made his tackles but he gave up too much ground and didnt tackle players as far off his defensive line as he should have

[olaf the fat]

In the warm up games:
Luke and Zebo did not really put a hand up for selection,
Earls put one hand up,
DK and Jones put both hands up shouting "pick me, Pick me"

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Back three is the position most open to picking someone on form too IMO. You might want a ten to play through a dodgy spell because he's a good game manager, or a forward who's a good leader or something, but back three really is more about the guy who looks razor sharp when he gets the ball in his hands. Thats on the assumption that all of them are doing their basics correctly under Joe, really have no idea what he'll go with.

[All Blacks nil]

wrong thread

[Oldschool]

wrong thread

When was the last time if ever that.......

[Flash Gordon]

In the warm up games:
Luke and Zebo did not really put a hand up for selection,
Earls put one hand up,
DK and Jones put both hands up shouting "pick me, Pick me"

Maybe slightly harsh on Zebo and Earls but Dave and Jones definitely did - albeit, Jones against pitiful opposition. I wouldn't actually be surprised if Bowe didn't make it as I understand his fitness may be in question. On Luke, he is a Lions quality back and probably one of the few genuine game breakers outside Sexton. If the lad didn't break so much he'd be close to 100 caps. A real dilemma for Joe.