Ireland v France 11/10/2015

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Golf Man
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Golf Man »

Unbelievable performance yesterday - possibly as good as I've ever seen from us

Hard to single out players - Best, Toner, POM,SOB, Murray and Henshaw stood out for me

Major kudos to Kearney who has improved his attacking game hugely (competition maybe?) and Bowe who got better again. Heaslip really stepped up when leadership was needed

Major major kudos to Madigan

Injuries are going t kill us though - POC/POM/SOB gone for argentina will e huge (and possibly our dowfall) - hopefully one of the backrows makes it

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Donny B.
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Donny B. »

Gutted for big Paulie to finish his test career like that. But from what we know of the man, he'll take great consolation from the way Henderson and the rest of the lads just kept going without him.

Great performance, was a little nervy that we weren't taking enough scores for all our dominance. But our last ten minutes was the best last ten we've ever played in a big match. Didn't just hang on to what we had, instead we went out and made it safe.

The injuries and possible suspension are a cloud on things, sure, but the way the replacements played would give you great heart for next Sunday.

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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by simonokeeffe »

Times saying POC tore hamstring off the bone so could be end of his entire career
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Dave Cahill »

Ireland beat France how you have to beat France - up front, no other team reacts so poorly to their pack being beaten up as the French do. For all the joys of their back play during the 70s and 80s, French rugby is about the forwards. It always has been.

In the run up to this game we were all worried about how what we believed to be a fitter, more organised French team would play. But at the final whistle it became obvious that this french team's gains in fitness were purely relative to other french teams. In absolute terms Ireland ran them into the ground. The pace we played at in the second half was just a level they couldn't deal with. They then had to change everything they were certain would be key to a French victory - they believed in Michelak and T-B - changed. They believed in Basteraud - changed. They believed in their strength in depth, yet we were able to replace leaders, captains and game managers without missing a beat. In short, we took everything they believed about this fixture and turned it on them, we hammered the hammer.
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olaf the fat
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by olaf the fat »

The French game plan was based on targeting Sexton, after 25 minutes he was gone. Along with Sexton, so went the French game plan. They were simply out thought and out fought by a team they could not beat in the last 4 seasons.

Our provincial teams dont fear French club teams anymore and that is reflecting at international level now.
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Broken Wing »

If a team states they are going to target a player and then that player has to be subbed through injury after 25 minutes is there no punishment or sanction that can be handed to the offending team? The NFL hit the Saints with massive punishments for similar bounty hunting.

Anyway, all that aside I'm a bit surprised by the reaction this win is getting. We were always going to beat France. There's no way an Ireland team, with two years warning and four years of beating them, wasn't going to turn up and turn them over. The intensity and line speed were upped for yesterday and the ball was kept in hand instead of kicking it away all day long but outside of that what did we see? What training ground moves did Ireland add to the game plan? I don't think they did anything spectacular and I'm not saying this to put the team down. I'm saying this because I firmly believe they held a lot back from this in confidence that they would beat France and would need something in the locker for the next three rounds. It was a solid performance but the reaction to the performance seems to be fuelled by the sleight of hand that was the Italy game. It was a good win but, realistically, it was an expected win. This was not Australia in 2011 and I certainly don't expect next weekend to be Wales in 2011.
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OTT
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by OTT »

Broken Wing wrote:If a team states they are going to target a player and then that player has to be subbed through injury after 25 minutes is there no punishment or sanction that can be handed to the offending team? The NFL hit the Saints with massive punishments for similar bounty hunting.
Is the 10 (especially when they are very good players in very good teams)not always targeted? Why should France be punished?
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Peg Leg »

Broken Wing wrote:If a team states they are going to target a player and then that player has to be subbed through injury after 25 minutes is there no punishment or sanction that can be handed to the offending team? The NFL hit the Saints with massive punishments for similar bounty hunting.

Anyway, all that aside I'm a bit surprised by the reaction this win is getting. We were always going to beat France. There's no way an Ireland team, with two years warning and four years of beating them, wasn't going to turn up and turn them over. The intensity and line speed were upped for yesterday and the ball was kept in hand instead of kicking it away all day long but outside of that what did we see? What training ground moves did Ireland add to the game plan? I don't think they did anything spectacular and I'm not saying this to put the team down. I'm saying this because I firmly believe they held a lot back from this in confidence that they would beat France and would need something in the locker for the next three rounds. It was a solid performance but the reaction to the performance seems to be fuelled by the sleight of hand that was the Italy game. It was a good win but, realistically, it was an expected win. This was not Australia in 2011 and I certainly don't expect next weekend to be Wales in 2011.
I don't think it was the perfectly legal hit put in by Picamoles that did it for Sexton. He strained the leg kicking earlier and had to receive treatment for it.
Tbh, who didn't see the hit by Picamole and think- broken ribs, only to be suprised to hear the diagnoses was a leg injury?
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Donny B.
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Donny B. »

Broken Wing wrote:If a team states they are going to target a player and then that player has to be subbed through injury after 25 minutes is there no punishment or sanction that can be handed to the offending team? The NFL hit the Saints with massive punishments for similar bounty hunting.
To be fair, there was nothing in either incident that caused the injury.

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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Broken Wing »

Yeah, I know that the injury seems to be unrelated to the hits. It just feels wrong that they can state to the media that he's their target and then see him have to leave the field injured. A topic for discussion in the silly season maybe. There's plenty of rugby to talk about in the meantime.
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Logorrhea »

OTT wrote:Is the 10 (especially when they are very good players in very good teams)not always targeted?
+1. Upsetting the 10 is part of all defensive systems.

The thing is that Madigan was playing so damned flat that the French really struggled to defend against him. He must have mucked up their defensive plans no end.

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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by backrower8 »

Pape was ready for the punch, he was looking for a reaction from Seanie. Even more Gaul-ing was how long he stayed down looking for a post-video analysis yellow for Seanie. There is no way a man of that size, French 2nd row, playing our sport, doing what he was doing, stayed down that long legitimately. If World Rugby go in for this hyper-sanitised bullshit and ban the MOTM who honoured the official and unofficial real values of our sport then the lunatics/ PC-brigade/ commercial interests really have taken over.

Seanie should not have reacted as he did, but it was the lesser of two 'evils'. It will be a farce if someone of Pape's 'character', also the perpetrator and embarrassing cheat (for staying down so long), plays on and the MOTM becomes the 3rd member of our pack to be sidelined.

Don't spin me the 'example to the kids' line either, the whole sport is based around legitimised violence (interspersed with skill) of a much greater magnitude than Seanie's pat in the belly

That Pape is a bloody poor player with form (Heaslip) disgusts me even more.

There. Feeling much better now. Thank you for the service of this forum, saves me a fortune in shrink fees.

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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by OTT »

backrower8 wrote:Pape was ready for the punch, he was looking for a reaction from Seanie. Even more Gaul-ing was how long he stayed down looking for a post-video analysis yellow for Seanie. There is no way a man of that size, French 2nd row, playing our sport, doing what he was doing, stayed down that long legitimately. If World Rugby go in for this hyper-sanitised bullshit and ban the MOTM who honoured the official and unofficial real values of our sport then the lunatics/ PC-brigade/ commercial interests really have taken over.

Seanie should not have reacted as he did, but it was the lesser of two 'evils'. It will be a farce if someone of Pape's 'character', also the perpetrator and embarrassing cheat (for staying down so long), plays on and the MOTM becomes the 3rd member of our pack to be sidelined.

Don't spin me the 'example to the kids' line either, the whole sport is based around legitimised violence (interspersed with skill) of a much greater magnitude than Seanie's pat in the belly

That Pape is a bloody poor player with form (Heaslip) disgusts me even more.

There. Feeling much better now. Thank you for the service of this forum, saves me a fortune in shrink fees.
You might long for yesteryear and we might all (or most agree) with your sentiments but the reality is guys are getting suspended for not getting tackled correctly FFS (Tuilagi) and there is precedent for what SOB has done where suspensions have happened eg POC v Ospreys a few years back (and POC in that instance was clearly getting held back). You just cannot do it now, it is not something that was decided post game yesterday SOB knows the game. He deserves a ban as much or as less as every other player who gets one for something innocuous. Pape being a geebag does not come into it.
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Oldschool »

POC - You don't kick a man when he's down. Joe saw fit to make his captain - enough said.
Two issues for the Argue game.
Squad rotation - Regardless of injuries, some squad rotation is going to be necessary for this game.
Ruddock/Murphy Heaslip Henry with Murphy/Ruddock on bench
Ryan and Toner with Henderson on bench.
Front row obviously.
Emotional deficit - How much did we take out of the emotion tank against France.
After the game the reaction was like we'd won the RWC.
Another Ant and Scorpion reaction - We just can't keep our feet on the ground.
The next game is going to be a real test of our ability to repeat that performance and then and then.
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Oldschool »

Broken Wing wrote:If a team states they are going to target a player and then that player has to be subbed through injury after 25 minutes is there no punishment or sanction that can be handed to the offending team? The NFL hit the Saints with massive punishments for similar bounty hunting.

Anyway, all that aside I'm a bit surprised by the reaction this win is getting. We were always going to beat France. There's no way an Ireland team, with two years warning and four years of beating them, wasn't going to turn up and turn them over. The intensity and line speed were upped for yesterday and the ball was kept in hand instead of kicking it away all day long but outside of that what did we see? What training ground moves did Ireland add to the game plan? I don't think they did anything spectacular and I'm not saying this to put the team down. I'm saying this because I firmly believe they held a lot back from this in confidence that they would beat France and would need something in the locker for the next three rounds. It was a solid performance but the reaction to the performance seems to be fuelled by the sleight of hand that was the Italy game. It was a good win but, realistically, it was an expected win. This was not Australia in 2011 and I certainly don't expect next weekend to be Wales in 2011.
Very good assessment BW
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Logorrhea »

Anyone else concerned about Johnny? He takes two huge knocks (the first being a head-on-head) then has to go off. Was it really a leg injury?

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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by blockhead »

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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by Oldschool »

Dave Cahill wrote:Ireland beat France how you have to beat France - up front, no other team reacts so poorly to their pack being beaten up as the French do. For all the joys of their back play during the 70s and 80s, French rugby is about the forwards. It always has been.

In the run up to this game we were all worried about how what we believed to be a fitter, more organised French team would play. But at the final whistle it became obvious that this french team's gains in fitness were purely relative to other french teams. In absolute terms Ireland ran them into the ground. The pace we played at in the second half was just a level they couldn't deal with. They then had to change everything they were certain would be key to a French victory - they believed in Michelak and T-B - changed. They believed in Basteraud - changed. They believed in their strength in depth, yet we were able to replace leaders, captains and game managers without missing a beat. In short, we took everything they believed about this fixture and turned it on them, we hammered the hammer.
Spot on and NZ won't struggle to put them away.
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by artaneboy »

Dave Cahill wrote:Ireland beat France how you have to beat France - up front, no other team reacts so poorly to their pack being beaten up as the French do. For all the joys of their back play during the 70s and 80s, French rugby is about the forwards. It always has been.

In the run up to this game we were all worried about how what we believed to be a fitter, more organised French team would play. But at the final whistle it became obvious that this french team's gains in fitness were purely relative to other french teams. In absolute terms Ireland ran them into the ground. The pace we played at in the second half was just a level they couldn't deal with. They then had to change everything they were certain would be key to a French victory - they believed in Michelak and T-B - changed. They believed in Basteraud - changed. They believed in their strength in depth, yet we were able to replace leaders, captains and game managers without missing a beat. In short, we took everything they believed about this fixture and turned it on them, we hammered the hammer.
That's as elegant a summary as I've seen. Hammered the Hammer... like it! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Ireland v France 11/10/2015

Post by simonokeeffe »

Broken Wing wrote:If a team states they are going to target a player and then that player has to be subbed through injury after 25 minutes is there no punishment or sanction that can be handed to the offending team? The NFL hit the Saints with massive punishments for similar bounty hunting.

Anyway, all that aside I'm a bit surprised by the reaction this win is getting. We were always going to beat France. There's no way an Ireland team, with two years warning and four years of beating them, wasn't going to turn up and turn them over. The intensity and line speed were upped for yesterday and the ball was kept in hand instead of kicking it away all day long but outside of that what did we see? What training ground moves did Ireland add to the game plan? I don't think they did anything spectacular and I'm not saying this to put the team down. I'm saying this because I firmly believe they held a lot back from this in confidence that they would beat France and would need something in the locker for the next three rounds. It was a solid performance but the reaction to the performance seems to be fuelled by the sleight of hand that was the Italy game. It was a good win but, realistically, it was an expected win. This was not Australia in 2011 and I certainly don't expect next weekend to be Wales in 2011.
difference there is they were paying cash bonuses for injuring players
But yeah no way Pape was that hurt

squad rotation for the quarter final is only a good idea if you havent seen Argentina play in the last 10 years
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