Scrap the Lions?

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Donny B.
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Scrap the Lions?

Post by Donny B. »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?
Depends on the negotiations for compensation to the home unions, I think we should be getting a lot bigger slice of the pot.

But gut says yup scrap it

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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by simonokeeffe »

Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?
The two main reasons it wont go are 1. massive cash cow for unions involved (and sanctioned by world rugby) and B. getting rid of it will look like a victory For Bruce Craig, Boudejal, and the bad guys from Lethal Weapon 2 or whoever owns Saracens
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

The Blackrock mafia own Saracens

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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by jimbobjoe »

It will never go but I think Ireland can use it to get the more peripheral players some proper test time. Do a proper tour of one of the other quad nations and see how they get on. Playing tests against USA and Canada (as it think we did in 2013) does very little at the moment for the players involved. There's a chance we'll get spanked but it will lead to finding new top level leadership and greater test depth.
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Donny B.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Donny B. »

simonokeeffe wrote:
Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?
The two main reasons it wont go are 1. massive cash cow for unions involved (and sanctioned by world rugby) and B. getting rid of it will look like a victory For Bruce Craig, Boudejal, and the bad guys from Lethal Weapon 2 or whoever owns Saracens
Bad Guys from Lethal Weapon 2 were South African so they'll love all the lovely moola. :D
As for the first point, it's currently a massive cash cow only for the unions hosting it,

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time to scrap the Lions?

Post by enby »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

I am with Gerry on this one. It was nice while it lasted but now its time to move on. As an added bonus, it would be one in the eye for Sky.

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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Dave Cahill »

Donny B. wrote:
As for the first point, it's currently a massive cash cow only for the unions hosting it,

I dunno, twenty odd million of the queens pounds split four ways last time around - thats a spicy meatball
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by simonokeeffe »

Donny B. wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:
Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?
The two main reasons it wont go are 1. massive cash cow for unions involved (and sanctioned by world rugby) and B. getting rid of it will look like a victory For Bruce Craig, Boudejal, and the bad guys from Lethal Weapon 2 or whoever owns Saracens
Bad Guys from Lethal Weapon 2 were South African so they'll love all the lovely moola. :D
As for the first point, it's currently a massive cash cow only for the unions hosting it,
the new deal though will be much more favourable

would pay for a lot of Ian Madigans
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Vamos los azules
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Vamos los azules »

It's one hideous exercise in commercialism and money-making from start to finish these days. Don't see it being scrapped while it's such a cash cow for so many.
"You can’t defend like the boss one week and the cookie man the next".

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Re: Scrap the Lions?

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Vamos los azules wrote:It's one hideous exercise in commercialism and money-making from start to finish these days. Don't see it being scrapped while it's such a cash cow for so many.
Why is this always trotted out as a bad thing? Doesn't make sense, especially so for rugby which has governing bodies that are 'owned' by a broad spectrum of community stakeholders unlike say American sports or the French and English clubs which are owned in the more conventional and narrow commercial shareholder sense. Big profits means more money for those stakeholders (grassroots etc). The game is professional now, our national unions need to earn revenue to run the game in the territories they govern. Exploiting the commercial opportunities of a Lions tour doesn't demean it or lessen its credibility it is simply doing what's best for the good of the union and therefore for the good of the game in the territory that union controls from grassroots to pros.

I say keep it. We need to fix the season structure (among other things) first then most of the alleged problems with the Lions will fall away IMO. It has great history and fan support both here and in the home unions. Scrapping the Lions is merely 'fixing' a symptom not getting at the root cause(s) of the NH's lack of international success.

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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by CiaranIrl »

Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?
Yeah, I'm the exact same. After 97 I was a huge fan of it. It's been on a downward trend since then. They'll probably be anhialated in the next tour, and I don't know how much I'll care.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

CiaranIrl wrote:
Donny B. wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/g ... -1.2449026

Interesting piece. A few years back I would have been screaming "hell no". Now, I'm not so sure. What do people think?
Yeah, I'm the exact same. After 97 I was a huge fan of it. It's been on a downward trend since then. They'll probably be anhialated in the next tour, and I don't know how much I'll care.
Yeah that's how I feel. Loved the '97 documentary, loved the 2001 tour, was excited about the NZ tour but then Woodward and Campbell ruined it and I've been apathetic ever since. The last one was a damp squib and I really don't care much about the next one. Still interested from a rugby perspective in terms of who coaches and who plays, but I don't actually care about it.

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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Vamos los azules »

blues_fan wrote:
Vamos los azules wrote:It's one hideous exercise in commercialism and money-making from start to finish these days. Don't see it being scrapped while it's such a cash cow for so many.
Why is this always trotted out as a bad thing? Doesn't make sense, especially so for rugby which has governing bodies that are 'owned' by a broad spectrum of community stakeholders unlike say American sports or the French and English clubs which are owned in the more conventional and narrow commercial shareholder sense. Big profits means more money for those stakeholders (grassroots etc). The game is professional now, our national unions need to earn revenue to run the game in the territories they govern. Exploiting the commercial opportunities of a Lions tour doesn't demean it or lessen its credibility it is simply doing what's best for the good of the union and therefore for the good of the game in the territory that union controls from grassroots to pros.

I say keep it. We need to fix the season structure (among other things) first then most of the alleged problems with the Lions will fall away IMO. It has great history and fan support both here and in the home unions. Scrapping the Lions is merely 'fixing' a symptom not getting at the root cause(s) of the NH's lack of international success.
The perception for me as a travelling fan on the last two tours was that everything was about milking as many people out of as much money as possible. The corporate sponsors and financial big hitters are pandered to at every turn, to the extent that "ordinary" fans are pushed to the periphery as their value is lower but they're still expected to dip into their pockets as often as possible. I did the whole of the last tour to Australia and what I observed first hand through doing so turned me off the whole thing completely. It may not come over the same way to the hosts and, to be honest, I wasn't aware just how bad it is until being that close to the travelling circus.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by domhnallj »

Like quite a few people here my attitude to the Lions tour changed in 2005. I would watch the games but have little enthusiasm for it concerning who won. I think I recorded most of the last series and watched it when I could fit it in rather than make time like I would for an Ireland game. Still and all, the money that it brings home is nice so I guess my attitude is carry on (just dont select too many Irish players...and hands off Joe).
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by simonokeeffe »

Next one will be a trainwreck on the pitch, they only beat the weakest Australian team in decades because Kurtley Beale wore the wrong studs one day, the whole nation of NZ will be gunning for their blood, the midweek games will be a nightmare (Blues, Highlanders, Chiefs, Hurricanes) and the test side get a mickey mouse team first up (minus anyone playing in league finals or France) then Crusaders then Maoiri then the tests. And you can rest assured Maoiri will have first call on provincial players plus some of AB squad
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Dave Cahill »

Ah well, sure if its hard, then whats the point.
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Mauler »

So what's the alternative, rest the players for the summer of the Lions tour so they'll be fighting fit to take on the Dragons, Zebre & Cardiff when the Pro12 resumes in front of 9,000 at the RDS or half that when we play away from home?
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by simonokeeffe »

Dave Cahill wrote:Ah well, sure if its hard, then whats the point.
trying is the first step towards failing
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Re: Scrap the Lions?

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Mauler wrote:So what's the alternative, rest the players for the summer of the Lions tour so they'll be fighting fit to take on the Dragons, Zebre & Cardiff when the Pro12 resumes in front of 9,000 at the RDS or half that when we play away from home?
Sound exactly like the direction we should be moving in, maybe we should wear pink tutus also?

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