Ireland v New Zealand - Take Two

[Fan with smartphone]

Fekitoa's is easily the worst. It's high and it's a swinging arm and it connects. To decide it's a yellow without looking at it upstairs was bizarre. It was so bad it just looked like he said, fuvk it, I'm getting sent off here. It's the type of thing you'd see when your team is getting annihilated and someone decides to just go off the reservation. It's a red 1 minute in, never mind after a litany of penalties and repeated high shots.

Fun game to play though is to rank them. A lot of debate in my house for which is the worst. Marks being given for artistic impression and everything.

Don't even want to joke about it, because head injury ain't funny. Am I right in saying there was a freakin reinforcing this week to referees about high tackles? I know I saw that, but doubting myself given what actually unfolded yesterday.

[leinsterforever]

Fekitoa's is easily the worst. It's high and it's a swinging arm and it connects. To decide it's a yellow without looking at it upstairs was bizarre. It was so bad it just looked like he said, fuvk it, I'm getting sent off here. It's the type of thing you'd see when your team is getting annihilated and someone decides to just go off the reservation. It's a red 1 minute in, never mind after a litany of penalties and repeated high shots.

Fun game to play though is to rank them. A lot of debate in my house for which is the worst. Marks being given for artistic impression and everything.

Don't even want to joke about it, because head injury ain't funny. Am I right in saying there was a freakin reinforcing this week to referees about high tackles? I know I saw that, but doubting myself given what actually unfolded yesterday.

It doesn't make sense to me to not TMO check foul play that is at least dead cert yellow. Peyper chickened out of going to the TMO because he didn't want to have to give red. He's not firm enough with foul play - it was the same against France in the 6N

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The fact that Zebo was able to shrug it off is neither here nor there. The issue is the action, not the reaction. Players can get up and walk off from absolutely brutal hits [Zebo in this case], and they can get injured in non-contact situations [Jordi Murphy a couple of weeks ago] ... you're not penalising people on the severity of the injury they've inflicted, you're penalising them on their actions.

This is a real bugbear of mine. Not just injuries but the type of result in general. CJ's red card still annoys me, I just don't see what he did wrong. For me it wasn't even a penalty but ignoring that for a second, Lambie ended up on his shoulders/neck and it was a red card. Imagine if it had been the other way around and Lambie had been the one who knocked CJ over. Exact same incident but the heavy guy was one who was knocked over. Chances are that CJ wouldn't have ended up in his head or neck because of the weight difference, and yet the exact same action could have resulted in a different outcome. I just don't get it.

I'm conflicted about the Cane incident. I don't think it was bad but given the recent edict about that exact type of incident and the fact that Peyper actually deemed it a penalty, I don't see how he didn't then deem it to be worthy of a card, and it was clear from Joe's reaction that he thought the same.

To be honest there were a lot of calls that I was screaming for at the game but then didn't seem as bad when I watched it back, but the officials were still brutal. The scrum near their line when Read decided to join Jamie at the back of our scrum was just a complete joke and should have been punished more severely. NZ were constantly offside in midfield and I'm not sure it was ever picked up. They were done for offside alright but not of the type that I saw all game. And lastly I don't know why he didn't at least give them one more warning in the last quarter due to all the penalties they'd given away.

Don't think we were completely screwed though. I wouldn't have any complaints about Barrett not being done for not realising SOB and the Aaron Smith yellow looked very harsh to me. Also reckon that Barrett did ground the ball and don't think TJP's pass for the last try was forward. We absolutely got the shitty end of the stick and Feikitoa should have been sent off, but just don't think that all of the high profile incidents went against us unfairly. But even something like the Barrett try made me uneasy with the performance of the officials. Even though I think he got it, for the TMO to say he definitely saw it grounded was blatantly nonsense and I would hope that he's called up on it.

Aside from all that I thought we just got too frustrated with not scoring and tried to force things. Maybe it was because everything came off for us in Chicago and then we panicked when it didn't happen yesterday. Our kicking game wasn't great either, plenty of kicks that were received under no pressure. Thought the pack was great but the backline lacked the focal point that Henshaw provides. Ringrose was brilliant but we still lacked the hard yards that Robbie always seems to make. Thought Rob killed a lot our attacks, never looked like passing and wasn't as elusive or powerful as he'd been in Chicago. Unfortunately when we needed Payne to get the ball in his hands and put people away he was just being used as a battering ram, the Henshaw injury really screwed us in that regard.

Lots to be positive about though, so much went against us and yet we still could have beaten and NZ team that was giving it everything they had.

[blues_fan]

Disappointing reaction from some Irish fans. Criticise a man's performance, challenge his decisions and competence, but it is absolutely appalling to not just question his integrity, but to stridently declare his integrity breached based on nothing more than what he does on the pitch. Peyper gave a massive penalty count, two yellow cards and World Rugby cited two ABs, yet it's still not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of some Irish fans. So if a referee doesn't see the match in exactly the same manner as your one eyed Irish opinion he's obviously on the take? Even some very poor examples in this this thread too, although not as bad as other venues for debate.

Reminds me of Ellie F-Sapolu calling Owens a racist merely because he was tough on Samoa, or the awful overreaction we had to Barnes in '07. A shame really.

[simonokeeffe]

As overwhelmed as Peyper was the Zebo incident was down to the touch judge coming straight in and saying yellow, not we need to look at this

Peypers was mistake was treating a straight yellow/red as cumulative punishment

Scrum penalty on their line is why we should have scrummed again even though a NH ref could well have gone straight in for penalty try

[cormac]

Disappointing reaction from some Irish fans. Criticise a man's performance, challenge his decisions and competence, but it is absolutely appalling to not just question his integrity, but to stridently declare his integrity breached based on nothing more than what he does on the pitch. Peyper gave a massive penalty count, two yellow cards and World Rugby cited two ABs, yet it's still not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of some Irish fans. So if a referee doesn't see the match in exactly the same manner as your one eyed Irish opinion he's obviously on the take? Even some very poor examples in this this thread too, although not as bad as other venues for debate.

Reminds me of Ellie F-Sapolu calling Owens a racist merely because he was tough on Samoa, or the awful overreaction we had to Barnes in '07. A shame really.

Unfortunately it's not the first time Peyper has put in such a performance when reffing Ireland.

[Hippo]

As overwhelmed as Peyper was the Zebo incident was down to the touch judge coming straight in and saying yellow, not we need to look at this

Peypers was mistake was treating a straight yellow/red as cumulative punishment

Scrum penalty on their line is why we should have scrummed again even though a NH ref could well have gone straight in for penalty try

Agree completely with this on both points.

In terms of the overall performance, the whole pack performed phenomenally well, including Stander who looked sensational. The backs, in view of the disruption were understandably much less coherent. Kicking game was very mixed, and Jackson, though he's great from the tee, doesn't look as comfortable as Carbery already does. Hope Carbery's working on the place kicking.

The team certainly put it up to New Zealand, and the fact, as DC points out, that they resorted to a clear concerted policy of (at best) borderline tackling is I suppose a compliment of a kind.

[FLIP]

Disappointing reaction from some Irish fans. Criticise a man's performance, challenge his decisions and competence, but it is absolutely appalling to not just question his integrity, but to stridently declare his integrity breached based on nothing more than what he does on the pitch. Peyper gave a massive penalty count, two yellow cards and World Rugby cited two ABs, yet it's still not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of some Irish fans. So if a referee doesn't see the match in exactly the same manner as your one eyed Irish opinion he's obviously on the take? Even some very poor examples in this this thread too, although not as bad as other venues for debate.

Reminds me of Ellie F-Sapolu calling Owens a racist merely because he was tough on Samoa, or the awful overreaction we had to Barnes in '07. A shame really.

Disappointing reaction from a kiwi not to condemn the shame of New Zealand, the continued scumbaggery in the face of a threat. We haven't forgotten the spear tackle because you feared BOD and we won't forgive deliberately injuring 3 of our players.

From now on it's anyone but New Zealand, and you've utterly earned it.

[jezzer]

Disappointing reaction from some Irish fans. Criticise a man's performance, challenge his decisions and competence, but it is absolutely appalling to not just question his integrity, but to stridently declare his integrity breached based on nothing more than what he does on the pitch. Peyper gave a massive penalty count, two yellow cards and World Rugby cited two ABs, yet it's still not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of some Irish fans. So if a referee doesn't see the match in exactly the same manner as your one eyed Irish opinion he's obviously on the take? Even some very poor examples in this this thread too, although not as bad as other venues for debate.

Reminds me of Ellie F-Sapolu calling Owens a racist merely because he was tough on Samoa, or the awful overreaction we had to Barnes in '07. A shame really.

The more incisive team won on the day. I hesitate to say better as I think it was fairly evenly matched. Maybe green tinted glasses there...

As I said earlier I even clapped the 3rd NZ try, it was that good (no knock on).

The ref got stuff wrong for both sides. You had a try given that shouldn't be and one taken away that shouldn't be, so it evens out.

But, NZ played dirty and deliberately so. Never seen so many swinging arms, high hits, neck rolls combined in a game. Not to mention Read or the 6 diving into the Irish scrum to prevent what was heading for a try or a tricky decision by the ref (which he prob would have gotten wrong).

To be pissed off about an abnormally high incidence of very dangerous and unsportsmanlike play might seem like "whining" to Kiwis, who don't want to hear their team cheated to win. But the way they "tackled" isn't really defensible. I notice you didn't try in your post. You just had a go at us instead.

Enjoy your posts, Blues Fan. Well, most of them anyway.

[Hippo]

I disagree with the suggestion made earlier (sorry can't remember who it was) that Barrett's 'try' when he'd ripped the ball from the ball carrier should have stood, that's not the case - according to law 12 it's a knock-on.

"If a player rips the ball or deliberately knocks the ball from the opponent's hands and the ball goes forward from the ball carrier's hands, that is not a knock-on." In this case it went forward from Barrett. I think there's maybe a misinterpretation of the law at play here. If the ball is ripped and goes forward from the carrier, that's no longer viewed as a knock-on by the carrier. But ripping it and thereby moving it closer to the ball carrier's goal line is always a knock-on. Barrett clearly taps the ball forward when ripping it from Jackson, it's a knock-on all day and whaddyaknow Peyper got it right.

Um at least that's my reading of it.

Carry on.

[blues_fan]

Disappointing reaction from some Irish fans. Criticise a man's performance, challenge his decisions and competence, but it is absolutely appalling to not just question his integrity, but to stridently declare his integrity breached based on nothing more than what he does on the pitch. Peyper gave a massive penalty count, two yellow cards and World Rugby cited two ABs, yet it's still not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of some Irish fans. So if a referee doesn't see the match in exactly the same manner as your one eyed Irish opinion he's obviously on the take? Even some very poor examples in this this thread too, although not as bad as other venues for debate.

Reminds me of Ellie F-Sapolu calling Owens a racist merely because he was tough on Samoa, or the awful overreaction we had to Barnes in '07. A shame really.

The more incisive team won on the day. I hesitate to say better as I think it was fairly evenly matched. Maybe green tinted glasses there...

As I said earlier I even clapped the 3rd NZ try, it was that good (no knock on).

The ref got stuff wrong for both sides. You had a try given that shouldn't be and one taken away that shouldn't be, so it evens out.

But, NZ played dirty and deliberately so. Never seen so many swinging arms, high hits, neck rolls combined in a game. Not to mention Read or the 6 diving into the Irish scrum to prevent what was heading for a try or a tricky decision by the ref (which he prob would have gotten wrong).

To be pissed off about an abnormally high incidence of very dangerous and unsportsmanlike play might seem like "whining" to Kiwis, who don't want to hear their team cheated to win. But the way they "tackled" isn't really defensible. I notice you didn't try in your post. You just had a go at us instead.

Enjoy your posts, Blues Fan. Well, most of them anyway.

I think you missed the point. Could care less about dirty play accusations thrown at ABs. Water off a ducks back. I'm talking about the invective streamed at Peyper, calling him a cheat/on the take etc etc. Absolutely appalling and indefensible.

[FLIP]

I think you missed the point. Could care less about dirty play accusations thrown at ABs. Water off a ducks back. I'm talking about the invective streamed at Peyper, calling him a cheat/on the take etc etc. Absolutely appalling and indefensible.

If the shoe fits. Peyper has history with not keeping Irish players safe: https://www.balls.ie/rugby/second-time- ... ing/352238

When it's equal for both sides it's incompetence. When it's only against one side repeatedly, it's corruption. Peyper should at the very least be cast out of the international panel.

[Dexter]

Disappointing reaction from some Irish fans. Criticise a man's performance, challenge his decisions and competence, but it is absolutely appalling to not just question his integrity, but to stridently declare his integrity breached based on nothing more than what he does on the pitch. Peyper gave a massive penalty count, two yellow cards and World Rugby cited two ABs, yet it's still not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of some Irish fans. So if a referee doesn't see the match in exactly the same manner as your one eyed Irish opinion he's obviously on the take? Even some very poor examples in this this thread too, although not as bad as other venues for debate.

Reminds me of Ellie F-Sapolu calling Owens a racist merely because he was tough on Samoa, or the awful overreaction we had to Barnes in '07. A shame really.

The more incisive team won on the day. I hesitate to say better as I think it was fairly evenly matched. Maybe green tinted glasses there...

As I said earlier I even clapped the 3rd NZ try, it was that good (no knock on).

The ref got stuff wrong for both sides. You had a try given that shouldn't be and one taken away that shouldn't be, so it evens out.

But, NZ played dirty and deliberately so. Never seen so many swinging arms, high hits, neck rolls combined in a game. Not to mention Read or the 6 diving into the Irish scrum to prevent what was heading for a try or a tricky decision by the ref (which he prob would have gotten wrong).

To be pissed off about an abnormally high incidence of very dangerous and unsportsmanlike play might seem like "whining" to Kiwis, who don't want to hear their team cheated to win. But the way they "tackled" isn't really defensible. I notice you didn't try in your post. You just had a go at us instead.

Enjoy your posts, Blues Fan. Well, most of them anyway.

I think you missed the point. Could care less about dirty play accusations thrown at ABs. Water off a ducks back. I'm talking about the invective streamed at Peyper, calling him a cheat/on the take etc etc. Absolutely appalling and indefensible.

Wayne Barnes would agree with you. Exact same situation except he was getting it from the kiwi side... and still is.

[FLIP]

Wayne Barnes would agree with you. Exact same situation except he was getting it from the kiwi side... and still is.

Peyper isn't getting death threats either. Just deserved criticism.

[Fireworks]

You can only focus on what you can control. We cannot control how the other team play and how the ref and his team view the proceedings. You can only ever control what you do. You also cannot change the past and spending too much time looking at it will effect how you approach the future.

We got beaten and it is in the past. We can feedback through channels what we felt went wrong on the officiating and we take learn from our own mistakes. After that we need to completely focus on the next challenge.

[suisse]

Both Cane and Fekitoa's were definite yellows and borderline reds. A fair result would probably have been one yellow and one red for those.

Peyper seemed reluctant to go to the TMO for the Fekitoa one. Maybe Owens's comments during the week had an influence?

The ironic thing about that is Israel Dagg was pleading with Jaco to go upstairs and review it

[suisse]

A lot of people seem to be questioning how Barrett got through for the second try. I was seated high up the East Stand, bang on half way. I couldn't have had a better view of the scrum. I was there with my brother and we were wondering why Ireland had fewer numbers on our right side. For whatever reason, we weren't matched up man to man. NZ went to their left, where they had more numbers, and Barrett sauntered through a huge gap.

[Oldschool]

Disappointing reaction from some Irish fans. Criticise a man's performance, challenge his decisions and competence, but it is absolutely appalling to not just question his integrity, but to stridently declare his integrity breached based on nothing more than what he does on the pitch. Peyper gave a massive penalty count, two yellow cards and World Rugby cited two ABs, yet it's still not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of some Irish fans. So if a referee doesn't see the match in exactly the same manner as your one eyed Irish opinion he's obviously on the take? Even some very poor examples in this this thread too, although not as bad as other venues for debate.

Reminds me of Ellie F-Sapolu calling Owens a racist merely because he was tough on Samoa, or the awful overreaction we had to Barnes in '07. A shame really.

Tut tut blues_fan, claiming the high moral ground.
A little lesson in morality for you.
An old saying "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"
This referee was fooled in the 6Ns game between France and Ireland last season - he failed to protect the Irish players against flagrant foul play by the opposition.
Shame on France. I'm sure you can see where this going.
He was fooled a second time last Saturday, this time he failed to protect Irish players (that's the second time) against flagrant foul play by the opposition.
The referee should be ashamed of himself - all we've done is point ti out to him.
I might add NZ did their homework, their performance was no accident and it's no credit to them. Shame on NZ too.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

For all the complaints about the ref (and most of them are absolutely correct), I still can't get over the one for Barrett's try. For the TMO to explicitly say that he saw a grounding is nothing short of scandalous, to the point that I feel World Rugby should investigate and release a statement. I'd go as far as to say that it brings the game into disrepute and can't be ignored.

[matt]

A lot of people seem to be questioning how Barrett got through for the second try. I was seated high up the East Stand, bang on half way. I couldn't have had a better view of the scrum. I was there with my brother and we were wondering why Ireland had fewer numbers on our right side. For whatever reason, we weren't matched up man to man. NZ went to their left, where they had more numbers, and Barrett sauntered through a huge gap.

Our lack of numbers on right side of our defence even more pronounced for first try. For whatever reason Trimble goes to join Zebo on left wing on 01:10 mins then Kearney goes near left wing on 01:50 so after Dagg & Reid drives near the line Barrett sees 4 to 1 and kicks for Fekitoa giving Murray & Payne little chance.