Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

[MunsterSugar]

Barnes is down for game in England this weekend so should be ok.

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[neiliog93]

My biggest concern is a certain W Barnes.

eventually he has to get things right by us (in this fixture), am clinging to broken clock theory

He was horrendous for us two years ago when we lost in Cardiff, but he was also the ref when we won the Grand Slam. I don't think he was particularly hard on us that day.

[MunsterSugar]

How does Barnes seem to get this fixture so often?

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[simonokeeffe]

My biggest concern is a certain W Barnes.

eventually he has to get things right by us (in this fixture), am clinging to broken clock theory

He was horrendous for us two years ago when we lost in Cardiff, but he was also the ref when we won the Grand Slam. I don't think he was particularly hard on us that day.

dont forget the game in Dublin when he didnt send Davies off for the tip tackle on Ryan

He got us out of jail in the grandslam game by giving Wales that last kick they missed a few yards behind where the offence happened

[cormac]

We've only won 4 of the previous 13 games in which Barnes has reffed us, and one of those was the 14-10 win against Georgia at RWC 2007. The other three were the grand slam win against Wales in 2009, a 26-3 home win against Wales again in 2014 and the 18-11 win over France two years ago. The nine defeats include three defeats to Wales (2008, 2012 and 2015), two to Scotland (2011 and 2013) and once to Italy (2013), South Africa (2012), New Zealand (2010 - sending off Heaslip) and France (2010).

He hasn't reffed any of our games since the 2015 defeat to Wales.

[Laighin Break]

I've been to some disappointing Irish losses, but that 14-10 win against Georgia was probably worse!

After McGrath's somewhat below par performance on Saturday, and Healy starting against Italy and doing well when he came on against France, I could see Healy getting the nod for the Wales game.

[Twist]

We've only won 4 of the previous 13 games in which Barnes has reffed us, and one of those was the 14-10 win against Georgia at RWC 2007. The other three were the grand slam win against Wales in 2009, a 26-3 home win against Wales again in 2014 and the 18-11 win over France two years ago. The nine defeats include three defeats to Wales (2008, 2012 and 2015), two to Scotland (2011 and 2013) and once to Italy (2013), South Africa (2012), New Zealand (2010 - sending off Heaslip) and France (2010).

He hasn't reffed any of our games since the 2015 defeat to Wales.

The penalty he gave Scotland to win in 2011 was sufficiently inconsistent with the rest of his calls that day that I still remember it 6 years on!


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[Grumpy Old Man]

WB was also the ref in what was, to my mind, Leinster's greatest win - the HC SF against Clermont in 2012.

Would it be normal for one of the top refs to officiate the same team in consecutive games? He was due to be an Assistant Referee against France and is on the whistle against Wales.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Apart from the bad calls in the Wales game two years ago I'll always remember how chummy he was with them. He wouldn't discuss calls with POC but was talking to the Welsh on a first name basis.

[simonokeeffe]

The thing that gets my goat about Wayne Barnes, aside from his general vibe of a magistrate who'd take pleasure in sentencing you to transportation for stealing a pig, is that he likes to lay down a marker early on, eg not rolling away at the last game in Cardiff, but once he feels that marker has been laid down then thats the matter settled and is far less strict later on so he tends to favour whoever has the earlier momentum

Payne named at 13 for Ulster this weekend...

[munster#1]

Payne added to the Irish squad to give a timely boost to the squad.

He would definitely settle the poor defensive line that we have seen so far in the 6 nations.

Will he go straight back in for the Wales game?

[neiliog93]

Back 3 I think Schmidt will pick for Wales, assuming R.K is out:

11.Trimbe 15.Payne 14.Earls

23.Zebo

[munster#1]

Back 3 I think Schmidt will pick for Wales, assuming R.K is out:

11.Trimbe 15.Payne 14.Earls

23.Zebo

Can't see Zebo being dropped myself, he played poor by his standards last week, but still put in a serious shift.

It's not like trimble has been beating at the door for selection. Real shame bowe hasn't regained form, as he would be straight in ahead of Zebo.

Imo Payne Ireland need Payne at 13 to steady and marshall the defence.

[simonokeeffe]

OTB said they expect RK to be fit

[fourthirtythree]

What he would do might not be what we would do. Payne is always crucial for leading the defence from 13. Apart from the defensive positioning solidity, and I'm with Schmidt on that but I feel Payne has it too, RK is hugely important for his power plays. That said, I don't see that Payne couldn't do them also, albeit with less practice than Kearney. Particularly as Kearney made a mistake or two in execution last week. He slipped and stumbled when CJ was about to pass the ball inside to him as he took one of those disguised diagonal runs.

Fitness may be a big issue, unlike Sexton who has been training all that time Payne had a serious illness/injury and was completely out of action.

Edit

And I can't see why he'd pick Trimble ahead of Zebo. If Zebo was a bit off colour last week he still made some huge defensive hits, i.e. Zebo on a not great day still offers as much as Trimble on a good day.

[neiliog93]

Yeah, but Schmidt is the type of coach to ruthlessly punish a mistake like Zebo's (when he needlessly gave away a 5-metre scrum that led to the French nearly try). Zebo on form is a guaranteed Ireland starter for me but he hasn't looked the best this championship.

[MunsterSugar]

Lads it seems Payne will be starting 13 if all seems true. Starting there tomorrow, IRFU state him as a centre and Tyrone Howe was on radio saying he spoke to Jared wnd stated his defensive awareness at 13 was key reason Schmidt wanted him back so fast.
So its do we want a too offensive centre or top defensive centre at 13

[cormac]

We've only won 4 of the previous 13 games in which Barnes has reffed us, and one of those was the 14-10 win against Georgia at RWC 2007. The other three were the grand slam win against Wales in 2009, a 26-3 home win against Wales again in 2014 and the 18-11 win over France two years ago. The nine defeats include three defeats to Wales (2008, 2012 and 2015), two to Scotland (2011 and 2013) and once to Italy (2013), South Africa (2012), New Zealand (2010 - sending off Heaslip) and France (2010).

He hasn't reffed any of our games since the 2015 defeat to Wales.

The penalty he gave Scotland to win in 2011 was sufficiently inconsistent with the rest of his calls that day that I still remember it 6 years on!


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Your memory is failing you. The 2011 game he reffed against Scotland was a RWC warm-up.

[Golf Man]

Yeah, but Schmidt is the type of coach to ruthlessly punish a mistake like Zebo's (when he needlessly gave away a 5-metre scrum that led to the French nearly try). Zebo on form is a guaranteed Ireland starter for me but he hasn't looked the best this championship.

To suggest that dropping Zebo for that mistake is justifiable is a joke - if players are going to be dropped for individual mistakes like that he has to be consistency - bit of a farce if it isn't

Not overly happy with the thought of Payne replacing Ringrose - seems unnecessary imo. Payne at FB makes the most sense but if he is not playing there this week then surely won't be an option. I wouldn't be surprised to see Payne on the bench

[fourthirtythree]

I said way back on one of these threads that 13 is the more likely position for Payne to come into, unless Rob is injured I don't see any reason to change that opinion. Ringrose has been growing into it after a ropey start to the 6N and was really good against France I thought, but Payne doesn't know the Irish plays from 15 and Kearney is really important there.

The thing Schmidt will be happiest with from Ringrose in the 6N so far is that clear out (with Sean O'Brien assisting) after Henshaw's carry that led to Murray's try against France.

And he wouldn't be wrong. And he will probably think that Payne could have done that too while also having us more steady when France were playing well in the first 20.

Talk of Zebo being dropped is just talk. Why would he?