Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

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munster#1
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by munster#1 »

FLIP wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
Golf Man wrote:Trying to blame ref is a.joke 3 tried to 0 and recurrent issues

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In fairness, no one is blaming the ref except one guy who blames the ref for every loss ever.
And typically the guy who'll roll over and get shafted by bent refs every time comes and says this.

We need to complain like the Welsh and Kiwis (incorrectly in both cases) did both in the media and at the games otherwise we will continue to be on the wrong end of decisions.

Barnes bias is statistically clear to see.
That lad is obviously a very bitter person indeed, to put that loss on the ref, is so small minded that it doesn't warrant being added on this or any other forum.

No context being given and today's game is a very very poor example.

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neiliog93
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by neiliog93 »

All I can say is that I seriously hope that at least 2-3 of the likes of Adam Byrne, O'Loughlin, Adeleokun, Matt Healy, Sweetnam, Conway and Gilroy prove to be as good in attack at international level as they look at club level (and that Joe gives them a chance in the coming international windows).
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munster#1
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by munster#1 »

neiliog93 wrote:All I can say is that I seriously hope that at least 2-3 of the likes of Adam Byrne, O'Loughlin, Adeleokun, Matt Healy, Sweetnam, Conway and Gilroy prove to be as good in attack at international level as they look at club level (and that Joe gives them a chance in the coming international windows).
Next week should be used as a game to blood at least 2 or 3 players, and to give some of the green bench options a start.

Ireland proved in the last rwc, that just like in 2007, the coach failed to develope a squad.

In the last few months I have read so many times how Joe is developing a great squad, but I just don't see that.
Bar when Ireland play teams well below them, Ireland start with the strongest available 15.

There's no doubt that the players are there, but they need to be selected and developed.

FLIP
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by FLIP »

munster#1 wrote:That lad is obviously a very bitter person indeed, to put that loss on the ref, is so small minded that it doesn't warrant being added on this or any other forum.

No context being given and today's game is a very very poor example.
Small minded is showing something with evidence? When I want moral arbitrage I won't go to the trolls from down south, or the man who is never wrong even when he is.
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munster#1
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by munster#1 »

FLIP wrote:
munster#1 wrote:That lad is obviously a very bitter person indeed, to put that loss on the ref, is so small minded that it doesn't warrant being added on this or any other forum.

No context being given and today's game is a very very poor example.
Small minded is showing something with evidence? When I want moral arbitrage I won't go to the trolls from down south, or the man who is never wrong even when he is.
The troll is the person who tries to pin that loss on the ref, and the person who calls everyone with an alternative view a troll.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by matt »

Zebo a joke at this level there are prop forwards with more pace, Kearney despite a few catches not up to it either. If we pick these guys we make it very hard to win all we are doing is recycling the ball.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by Oldschool »

Usually prefer to wait until the next day but it's fair to say that Joe has a few questions to answer and given that the championship is gone, a few decisions to be made for next week and the future.
Until after the England v Scotland game!
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neiliog93
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by neiliog93 »

munster#1 wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:All I can say is that I seriously hope that at least 2-3 of the likes of Adam Byrne, O'Loughlin, Adeleokun, Matt Healy, Sweetnam, Conway and Gilroy prove to be as good in attack at international level as they look at club level (and that Joe gives them a chance in the coming international windows).
Next week should be used as a game to blood at least 2 or 3 players, and to give some of the green bench options a start.

Ireland proved in the last rwc, that just like in 2007, the coach failed to develope a squad.

In the last few months I have read so many times how Joe is developing a great squad, but I just don't see that.
Bar when Ireland play teams well below them, Ireland start with the strongest available 15.

There's no doubt that the players are there, but they need to be selected and developed.
I don't disagree with much of that but I would say that next week really isn't the time to blood players (and we both know Joe won't anyway). We will be desperate for a win, have only one significant injury worry, and will have a ropey looking England in all likelihood coming to Dublin to win a Grand Slam and break the record for consecutive Tier 1 test victories.

Bizarrely I'm very confident that we'll win next week, with our (nearly) full deck to choose from, home advantage and sheer desperation and their complacency + relative lack of form.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FLIP
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by FLIP »

munster#1 wrote:
FLIP wrote:
munster#1 wrote:That lad is obviously a very bitter person indeed, to put that loss on the ref, is so small minded that it doesn't warrant being added on this or any other forum.

No context being given and today's game is a very very poor example.
Small minded is showing something with evidence? When I want moral arbitrage I won't go to the trolls from down south, or the man who is never wrong even when he is.
The troll is the person who tries to pin that loss on the ref, and the person who calls everyone with an alternative view a troll.
If you can't see that the match would have been drastically different had a Welsh player been binned for the 3 red zone penalty before Sextons card, or if Sexton had not been carded for being held into a ruck and a first offense in the red zone, then you are verging on a single digit IQ.

The pure fact you come onto a rivals forum trolling at the slightest sniff of deserved criticism for a Munster player shows your last line to be a lie.
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by Dave Cahill »

matt wrote:Zebo a joke at this level there are prop forwards with more pace, Kearney despite a few catches not up to it either. If we pick these guys we make it very hard to win all we are doing is recycling the ball.
No, he isn't. He started the season really well and was playing the best rugby he's ever played. But this six nations he has looked ponderous, at best. I'm convinced he's carrying an injury and can't hit top gear because of it, hammer knack would be my guess. The problem is that it has been highlighted because against Scotland, against Italy and twice tonight he had opportunities to sprint on turnover ball and wasn't confident enough to do so - its not that he was slow, it was that he couldn't even hit the gas and didn't really try
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Laighin Break
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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by Laighin Break »

Zeebs is the only one of the back three that I would keep there (although admittedly Earl's is playing better than him at the mo), but he has been poor this 6N. Maybe an injury, as suggested above

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by carlow man »

Schmidt has to take his fair share of the blame after that performance. How best stayed on the pitch until the 79th minute is a mystery?! He has had a shocking tournament. Same for sob who looks shot as a player. Leavy is miles ahead based on current form. Same for conan v heaslip. Scannell should have been on at ht. Toner was a waste in that type of game. His job is to run the lineout but it fell apart. Sexton looked so frustrated with so little options outside him. A backline with no pace or footwork apart from earls who looked lively. Kearney should never play for Ireland again. What has toh got to do to get a runout. Him or payne have to start next week. All kearney does is catch a ball. That's it. Nothing else. How can a guy with the whole field in front of him constantly run into the first player he comes across? U couldn't make it up!!!
Last edited by carlow man on March 10th, 2017, 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by ronk »

Dave Cahill wrote:
matt wrote:Zebo a joke at this level there are prop forwards with more pace, Kearney despite a few catches not up to it either. If we pick these guys we make it very hard to win all we are doing is recycling the ball.
No, he isn't. He started the season really well and was playing the best rugby he's ever played. But this six nations he has looked ponderous, at best. I'm convinced he's carrying an injury and can't hit top gear because of it, hammer knack would be my guess. The problem is that it has been highlighted because against Scotland, against Italy and twice tonight he had opportunities to sprint on turnover ball and wasn't confident enough to do so - its not that he was slow, it was that he couldn't even hit the gas and didn't really try
He didn't used to be so slow, he's not 100%.

but a half fit Bowe was on the bench and there isn't really anyone knocking down the door to take his place. Zero is doing what he's supposed to be doing, just slowly.

Earls was excellent, very lively.

If terms of using someone from within his pool, it looks like Ringrose to wing and Payne to centre would be the sort of play to make.

That was a game we could have won had we converted chances but Wales were comfortable once they weathered the early storm.

We didn't have an impact bench and we had patterns that could be disrupted.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by Laighin Break »

carlow man wrote:Schmidt has to take his fair share of the blame after that performance. How best stayed on the pitch until the 79th minute is a mystery?! He has had a shocking tournament. Same for sob who looks shot as a player. Leavy is miles ahead based on current form. Same for conan v heaslip. Scannell should have been on at ht. Toner was a waste in that type of game. His job is to run the lineout but it fell apart. Sexton looked so frustrated with so little options outside him. A backline with no pace or footwork apart from earls who looked lively. Kearney should never play for Ireland again. What has toh got to do to get a runout. Him or payne have to start next week. All kearney does is catch a ball. That's it. Nothing else. How can a guy with the whole field in front of him constantly run into the first player he comes across? U couldn't make it up!!!
There's posters here that think Kearney is doing the right thing by running directly into the first tackler every time. I, for one, don't understand why. Agree with all your points above. Here's hoping Leo doesn't follow all of Joe's selections for Champo's Cup

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by desperado »

Reasons we lost in no particular order:
failure to convert maul giving pen away. 14 pt turnaround. it was 15-9.
pen for offside on play after 5 m scrum; on that point - scrum was moving forward; why does Barnes call to úse it'' . He's not the only ref doing this - but its negating a team with a clear advantage.
Defence. Farrells record is poor as defence coach. Defence coach is responsible for defence on both set and broken play. EOS remarked the better defence won this game - he's right. Look at the amount of trys we've conceded per game during Farrells tenure; when we were winning the championship we were conceding 3 and 4 over the full 5 games.
Wales big game players/experienced leaders fronted up - ours didn't; all it takes is little errors or key contributions at crucial times. AWJ was immense. Jamie, Rory, SOB among them didnt have their proudest moments in green.
Sin bin; Sexton was pinned thought the yellow was harsh. They had 3 pens in a row in the green zone in the first half that didn't even merit a warning. That's not consistent.
Since when did going off your feet and coming in from the side at ruck time become legal. Again; EOS said 'Barnes had no interest in reffing the rucks'.
No sure about the substitutions; both timing and personnel. Toner taken off (when Charteris was being brought on!!); unless Stander was f?@#ed - he should have stayed on; Jamie or SOB should have been off for POM and earlier.Thought Scannell should have come on earlier. I actually thought Kearney was ok.
Last edited by desperado on March 11th, 2017, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by carlow man »

Carbery is more of a threat than kearney at fb. I'm praying nacewa is fit for wasps as the thought of kearney togging out makes me worry! Guy was good about 5 years ago but he can't tackle and has no pace or footwork. Everything u need a fb to have and he has neither. Please God Cullen tells schmidt to pee off!!

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by carlow man »

desperado wrote:Reasons we lost in no particular order:
failure to convert maul giving pen away. 14 pt turnaround. it was 15-9.
pen for offside on play after 5 m scrum; on that point - scrum was moving forward; why does Barnes call to úse it'' . He's not the only ref doing this - but its negating a team with a clear advantage.
Defence. Farrells record is poor as defence coach. Defence coach is responsible for defence on both set and broken play. EOS remarked the better defence won this game - he's right. Look at the amount of trys we've conceded per game during Farrells tenure; when we were winning the championship we were conceding 3 and 4 over the full 5 games.
Wales big game players/experienced leaders fronted up - ours didn't; all it takes is little errors or key contributions at crucial times. AWJ was immense. Jamie, Rory, SOB among them didnt have their proudest moments in green.
Sin bin; Sexton was pinned thought the yellow was harsh. They had 3 pens in a row in the green zone in the first half that didn't even merit a warning. That's not consistent.
Since when did going off your feet and coming in from the side at ruck time become legal. Again; EOS said 'Barnes had no interest in reffing the rucks'.
No sure about the substitutions; both timing and personnel. Toner taken off (when Charteris was being brought on!!); unless Stander was f?@#ed - he should have stayed on; Jamie or SOB should have been off for POM and earlier.Thought Scannell should have come on earlier. I actually thought Kearney was ok.
We didn't lose the game because our d was poor, we lost it because our attack is shocking. We go side to side and unless someone runs over their opposite number, we end up going backwards. Then after doing this repeatedly we put the ball in the air and hope someone catches it in the corner and falls over the try line. Schmidt had leinster playing the best rugby in Europe. Irelands backline ( maybe after Italy) are the slowest in the 6 nations.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by matt »

Best and sob should be replaced by scannell and leavy and back 3 of Payne, earls and any of Adam Byrne, Sweetman or about 4 others who would be better than Zebo or Kearney.

JS is an excellent coach but back 3 are there for more than just recycling ball.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by munster#1 »

neiliog93 wrote:
munster#1 wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:All I can say is that I seriously hope that at least 2-3 of the likes of Adam Byrne, O'Loughlin, Adeleokun, Matt Healy, Sweetnam, Conway and Gilroy prove to be as good in attack at international level as they look at club level (and that Joe gives them a chance in the coming international windows).
Next week should be used as a game to blood at least 2 or 3 players, and to give some of the green bench options a start.

Ireland proved in the last rwc, that just like in 2007, the coach failed to develope a squad.

In the last few months I have read so many times how Joe is developing a great squad, but I just don't see that.
Bar when Ireland play teams well below them, Ireland start with the strongest available 15.

There's no doubt that the players are there, but they need to be selected and developed.
I don't disagree with much of that but I would say that next week really isn't the time to blood players (and we both know Joe won't anyway). We will be desperate for a win, have only one significant injury worry, and will have a ropey looking England in all likelihood coming to Dublin to win a Grand Slam and break the record for consecutive Tier 1 test victories.

Bizarrely I'm very confident that we'll win next week, with our (nearly) full deck to choose from, home advantage and sheer desperation and their complacency + relative lack of form.
If not next week, then when?

The only time we ever see experimentation under Joe is against the likes of Canada, where we see wholesale changes, with little being gained from it.

I would love to see sweetnam come in for Zebo, and Conway for kearney, not just because they are from Munster, but imo they would add massively in both defense and attack.

Ryan to get a good run in the front row, Henderson to start in the second row, and stander to get a run at 8.

I don't think any of those changes would weaken the team, infact I believe that most would strengthen it, and would expand the squad beyond the usual suspects.

I don't for a minute believe that any unforced changes will be made, and we will again play 80 mins of kick chase.

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Re: Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

Post by Dave Cahill »

carlow man wrote:Carbery is more of a threat than kearney at fb. I'm praying nacewa is fit for wasps as the thought of kearney togging out makes me worry! Guy was good about 5 years ago but he can't tackle and has no pace or footwork. Everything u need a fb to have and he has neither. Please God Cullen tells schmidt to pee off!!
Firstly, Cullen will never tell Schmidt to pee off - the national coach gets what he wants.

Secondly, Carbery would play exactly the same way as Rob plays. Jared Payne would play the same way, Simon Zebo would play the same way. Christian Cullen would play the same way. Because thats how Joe wants his full back to play. And people who don't play the Joe way, don't play.
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