Ireland 6 Nations 2018

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fourthirtythree
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by fourthirtythree »

And yet outside here I only saw people bigging up his performance in Paris....

Mind you, most of the media was wowing about Lowe after the weekend whereas here it is accepted that he would not be in the squad for a big game if all were fit, and he showed why against Montpellier with a bit of a shocker.
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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Oldschool »

fourthirtythree wrote:And yet outside here I only saw people bigging up his performance in Paris....

Mind you, most of the media was wowing about Lowe after the weekend whereas here it is accepted that he would not be in the squad for a big game if all were fit, and he showed why against Montpellier with a bit of a shocker.
Joe is quite machevilian.
He's said Zebo didn't play well enough to warrant selection.
Nothing to do with him going to Racing.
He's warned everyone else - don't even think about it.
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wixfjord
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by wixfjord »

That’s complete lies from Schmidt, let’s call a spade a spade.

We all know the reason Zebo isn’t picked, and it ain’t a perceived bad performance in one game. Schmidt has never picked solely on form.

He could’ve just said ‘the reason he’s not picked is because he’s moving and I want to give other guys games. He might’ve been picked had he been staying, and he still might be picked if we need him, but he has made his bed’

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Lar
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Lar »

At the Q&A in Lansdowne Road during the AIs Schmidt said that that his move to Racing would not rule Zebo out of the squad for RWC2019. However he knew exactly what Zebo brought to the squad and that he wanted to give others a chance to integrate with the team and see what the systems were etc during November.

But JS spinning a line to the media wont be the first from an international coach and it certainly won't be the last.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Dave Cahill »

In fairness to Joe he's hardly going to say that he's dropped because he's a lazy, out of shape, ill-disciplined, and unfocussed
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CiaranIrl
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by CiaranIrl »

The never ending Zebo conversation blows my mind. Ferris today, Eddie O'Sullivan at the weekend, every podcast blabbering on with the same nonsense.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/irfu ... -6sxkxzww5

What is that people don't understand about, 'You are less likely to get selected'. Even Sexton was less likely to be selected, but because he was far better than the next guy, he still got selected. That is the policy. It's incredibly clear. You need to thick not to understand it. The same rule applies to everyone. If Henshaw, Furlong or Murray left the country, they would probably still get selected. The gap between everyone else and the next guy isn't wide enough.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

CiaranIrl wrote: That is the policy. It's incredibly clear. The same rule applies to everyone. If Henshaw, Furlong or Murray left the country, they would probably still get selected.
Is that not a massive contradiction?

My impression is that people understand it, but that some don't agree with it. Is that not fair enough?

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CiaranIrl
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by CiaranIrl »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote: That is the policy. It's incredibly clear. The same rule applies to everyone. If Henshaw, Furlong or Murray left the country, they would probably still get selected.
Is that not a massive contradiction?

My impression is that people understand it, but that some don't agree with it. Is that not fair enough?
I don't see how there's any contradiction at all. You're less likely, that's all.

Let's assume for the sake of the point that this was computer game rugby. Player 1 has 90 points of stats. Player 2 has 70. You get -10 for being abroad, but you're still better. Player 1 has 90 but player 2 has 85, the player 2 gets selected.

Obviously it's nota game, so instead of stats, Joe has a folder, but the policy is perfectly clear to me.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I don't see how a vague policy with no strict rules is exceptionally clear, and the rules don't apply to everyone the same way IMO. I get where you're coming from but don't see it the same way. I just can't imagine that Zebo was subtracted enough going away points to then justify going behind Dave Kearney in November.

What's the cut off point? November? The 6N? Summer tours? The World Cup? If Marmion announced that he was leaving after the World Cup would Cooney then take his place? Or would it not matter because it was after the World Cup?

I just don't think it's as scientific as you do. I think it's more of an arbitrary decision depending on the player. I have no issue with that btw, but I think that's what allows for a debate for individual players.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Thinking about it more...I'd see it more like Joe being a bouncer.

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"But other people are wearing runners and got in?"

"yeah but...yours are a bit dirty"

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Logorrhea
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Logorrhea »

All policies leave room for exceptions. Sexton was a clear exception. Murray would also be an exception, as would Furlong and Henshaw. The rest arent there yet. xfactor is miles away from being that important to the team.

Cant understand why its even being talked about. The moment Zebo announced he was going for the money everyone, absolutely everyone, knew that he was not going to be an option for the world cup. Joe has always taken a year or two to bed players into the setup (xfactor included), and he now has two years to get a replacement for Zebo so he is doing exactly what we would want him to do.

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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Oldschool »

Logorrhea wrote:All policies leave room for exceptions. Sexton was a clear exception. Murray would also be an exception, as would Furlong and Henshaw. The rest arent there yet. xfactor is miles away from being that important to the team.

Cant understand why its even being talked about. The moment Zebo announced he was going for the money everyone, absolutely everyone, knew that he was not going to be an option for the world cup. Joe has always taken a year or two to bed players into the setup (xfactor included), and he now has two years to get a replacement for Zebo so he is doing exactly what we would want him to do.
Actually you've touched on the nub of it.
Real x-factir determines the requirement to compromise on what should be called guidelines rather than rules.
The guidelines were ignored in Sexton's case - Why - Answer obvious.
The guidelines were adhered to in Zebo's case - Why - Answer obvious.
Management always have the right to ignore there own guidelines when the need arise.
Management also realise that said guidelines should only be breached in exceptional circumstances.
In Sexton's case the exceptional circumstances were very evident.
Guidelines gentleman not rules.
Guidelines imply wriggle room and good management always ensure that they have the necessary wriggle room.
Management have to be comfortable with amibguity.
The press and fans, on the other hand can choose not to be because they don't have to suffer the consequences.
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CiaranIrl
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by CiaranIrl »

The McElroy case comes to mind a bit too. I think that was his name anyway. Thread who was pulled off the plane just because he signed for Saracens. Now that was harsh.
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Logorrhea
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Logorrhea »

Oldschool wrote:The press and fans, on the other hand can choose not to be because they don't have to suffer the consequences.
Thats another big part of it. I dont actually think that all the people complaining actually want Zebo in the squad, I imagine they are just happy to attack Joe.

Ruckedtobits
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Ruckedtobits »

wixfjord wrote:That’s complete lies from Schmidt, let’s call a spade a spade.

We all know the reason Zebo isn’t picked, and it ain’t a perceived bad performance in one game. Schmidt has never picked solely on form.

He could’ve just said ‘the reason he’s not picked is because he’s moving and I want to give other guys games. He might’ve been picked had he been staying, and he still might be picked if we need him, but he has made his bed’
Totally disagree with your assessment @wixfjord and agree with JS view that Zebo does not currently deserve selection on basis of form and game against Racing 92 in Paris was a good example.

Focussed and playing solely for his team, at the top of his game, Zebo is an international winger. However, he is neither focussed enough nor always dedicated enough to his team, Munster or Ireland, to warrant automatic selection. On the other hand, I would have Earls, when fit, among my first three names on the Irish team sheet alongside Sexton and Furlong.

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Experimental
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Experimental »

IMO Schmidt has not picked Zebo because he is a maverick and a showboat which he doesn't like, and he has other players who are equally as good if not better. Its really that simple.

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suisse
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by suisse »

Schmidt's reason for not selecting Zebo is dishonest, and I don't think anyone could say otherwise. I agree that Zebo shouldn't be picked but cherry-picking one game and hoping it sticks is ludicrous, especially since he was excluded in the Autumn series aswell. Very few, if any, players stands up to that level of scrutiny, not least POM, CJ Stander and Rob Kearney.

It would be better if he just gave a stock answer or refused to reply. I think it was a poorly thought out response unless he was responding to Zebo's own criticisms in a round about way.

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simonokeeffe
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by simonokeeffe »

EOS tends to go with the crowd

I think a lot of the people cheerleading Zebo in the media know hes not getting picked so unless all 4 back 3 players have stormers and we win every game they cant be proved wrong

I do wish Joe would say look this is the policy, unless youre irreplaceable and you leave youre not getting picked
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Peg Leg
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by Peg Leg »

suisse wrote:Schmidt's reason for not selecting Zebo is dishonest, and I don't think anyone could say otherwise. I agree that Zebo shouldn't be picked but cherry-picking one game and hoping it sticks is ludicrous, especially since he was excluded in the Autumn series aswell. Very few, if any, players stands up to that level of scrutiny, not least POM, CJ Stander and Rob Kearney.

It would be better if he just gave a stock answer or refused to reply. I think it was a poorly thought out response unless he was responding to Zebo's own criticisms in a round about way.
Yeah your closing statement nailed it for me. Zebo's ego (Zego of you will) couldn't let the November Internationals saga go without an attempt to tell the world that Ireland couldn't put a framework in place to facilitate his x-factor.

You would have to think that Joe and Simon talked about this in camp several times and in truth he upped his game and played his role in the 23 when called upon. But when he spoke to the press negatively about the system, Joe waited for the opportunity to present itself and pulled the rug from under Zego, by telling the world in a guarded proffessional manner- x-factor isn't worth sh!t if your passing, ball retention and decision making needs improvement.

As well liked as Zebo is, that sort of rhetoric/opinion would be toxic in a JS camp where every player has an equal role within the system.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations 2018

Post by R-Dog »

Interesting to see just how much Rugby has been played. English players at least double what are lads have played.

Image

https://ibb.co/fhHaJb

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