Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

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johng
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Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Only 6 who will never be able to qualify for Ireland
Cotzee and Deysel in Ulster.
Botha and Taute in Munster.
Fardy in Leinster.
Godwin in Connacht.

6 more NIQ players remaining in the system under the 3 year rule
3 who will qualify next year
Gibson-Park (Leinster)
Klein and Marshall (Munster)
and 3 the year after
Lowe (Leinster) Cloete (Munster) and Butler (Connacht)

There are also 2 new signings in Connacht who missed the boat and won't qualify until 2023 (If we are all still alive and they are still here)

Leinster and Ulster may also sign one more each.

This is possibly an all time low in the last 10 years?

Players who have left in the last 2 years
Van der Merwe 2016
Kirchner 2017
Saili 2017
Chisholm 2017
Triggs 2017
Pienaar 2017
Nacewa 2018
Piutau 2018
Grobler 2018
Dawai 2018
Boshoff 2018
Ili 2018

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ronk
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by ronk »

I don't expect us to be allowed sign one and i dont expect that Ulster wont pick up at least 1.

There's an unwritten rule that new coaches temporarily get a little latitude on that front.

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paddyor
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by paddyor »

ronk wrote:I don't expect us to be allowed sign one and i dont expect that Ulster wont pick up at least 1.

There's an unwritten rule that new coaches temporarily get a little latitude on that front.

Apparently Tomane is waiting on a work permit.
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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Looks like we are up to 7 nie ok

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ronk
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by ronk »

Fardy and Tomane would be the pick of the NIE's.

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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

A fit Cotzee would beg to differ

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dropkick
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by dropkick »

The country is producing more players of a required standard than it needs. Those figures will continue to drop because of that. First you see the average age of a squad go down thanks to the academy mainly and when that happens theres no need for foreign players except those with a bit of an x factor, who bring something extra like Fardy, Lowe etc.


With Leinster having such a young squad, more players will have to move away from now on because theres less available places there now than there were previously. Its up to Munster and Ulster to produce more players. Connacht don't have the population to be self sustaining.

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ronk
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by ronk »

The number only dropped because of NIEs.

The gaps will always be there because players aren’t interchangeable and they develop at different rates.
Development only happens with need and needs change quickly.

Munster just signed 4 guys into their starting 15 (maybe Botha is a sub). Just because one 1 is capped for a different country doesn’t mean much.

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ronk
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by ronk »

Officially 7

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Fireworks
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by Fireworks »

dropkick wrote:The country is producing more players of a required standard than it needs. Those figures will continue to drop because of that. First you see the average age of a squad go down thanks to the academy mainly and when that happens theres no need for foreign players except those with a bit of an x factor, who bring something extra like Fardy, Lowe etc.


With Leinster having such a young squad, more players will have to move away from now on because theres less available places there now than there were previously. Its up to Munster and Ulster to produce more players. Connacht don't have the population to be self sustaining.


We are going to start exporting more talent which is a risk because it starts to normalise the process of playing abroad. I think we need more teams under the IRFU control even if these are based in other countries. This could provide us an outlet for these guys but keep them n the system.

Good to see the drop in numbers but we will always need a few to fill holes where there are early retirements and uneven development of guys in specific positions.

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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Leinster

Lowe NIQ until 2020
Tomane NIE
Fardy NIE

Ulster

Faddes NIE (Has NZ 7s caps. Not entirely sure if that disqualifies him. He would be 32 when qualified anyway)
Cotzee NIE
Carter NIE

Munster

Botha NIE
Cloete NIQ until 2020
mathewson NIE

Connacht

Godwin NIE
Butler NIQ until 2020
Horowitz NIQ until 2023
Fainga'a NIQ until 2023
John Porch NIE (Has AUS 7s caps. Not entirely sure if that disqualifies him. Forgot to add him initially)

A nice neat little bundle of NIE/NIQ players for next season. I can see Munster keeping Mathewson for the season.

The practise of scouting out "Project players" that upset a lot of people seems to have abated. For now anyway.
Last edited by johng on June 27th, 2019, 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Also of note. No props, hookers or scrum halves in the system. Those would be the big specialist positions. Did we ever think we would see the day?

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Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by neill_m »

Playing for a national team in 7s in World Series aged 20 or over or in Olympics/RWC aged 18 or over locks a player to a country.

Faddes played for NZ in World Series when he was 21. Porch played for Aus in Rio Olympics and was 18 or over, so both are NIE.

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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Thanks for clarifying that Neill. From a Leinster POV Lowe qualifies next year and the other 2 are likely offski. I'm sure there will be much discussion on what NIQs come in or if there should be any.

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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by leinsterforever »

Knox down in Munster too.

Wonder will we ever see deliberate use of the 7s Olympic loophole to get a player like Faddes qualified. You'd need Irish (or British?) citizenship, which takes five years, and then to play in four Olympic-qualifying 7s comps.

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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Forgot about Knox in the Munster academy. He qualifies next year too.

Butler, Lowe, Cloete and Knox are the last 3 year qualifiers in the Irish system.

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dropkick
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by dropkick »

I think the Irish system is now almost self sufficient. Leinster, Munster and Ulster all have relatively young squads so in theory we (as a country) won't be needing to sign as many players from abroad as we have.


The fewer places will likely be taken up by academy players only, with a few exceptions. And the academies look to be getting stronger. We can see an example already this summer with Leinster and Munster signing only 2 Irish players between them. That trend will likely continue apart from the odd NIQ signing to plug any squad weaknesses.

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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Or you could also look at it from the point of view that we could sign players for the benefit of team "culture" An Isa or a Pienaar or a Howlett who not only plug gaps but drive the team on. Especially when the International players are away. You only need one or 2.

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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

johng wrote:Or you could also look at it from the point of view that we could sign players for the benefit of team "culture" An Isa or a Pienaar or a Howlett who not only plug gaps but drive the team on. Especially when the International players are away. You only need one or 2.
I'd love to see Fardy and Pienaar stay on as coaches over here too. I know that coaching won't suit everyone but they strike me as two guys who it would really suit and they both have particular areas of expertise that could make them very useful. In other words, it might be a bit risky to give them the keys to the kingdom as forwards or attack coach straight away, but they could build into it by helping with the lineout or kicking respectively and then help out wherever else was necessary.

Apart from Isa I can't really remember Leinster players talking any other NIE up as much as they do with Fardy.

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johng
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Re: Only 6 NIE players left in Irish pro rugby next season

Post by johng »

Not even our current Attack... No... defence...no.....Skills coach?

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