RWC 2019

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Twist
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Re: RWC 2019

Post by Twist »

Dave Cahill wrote:I think everyone is forgetting the real victim here, the thing that will be most affected by these cancellations. World Rugby's Bank Account.

Sure the competition has been devalued and undermined by this shambles, but thats only the sporting side of things, the integrity of competition. Scotland may go out of this world cup on the couch, Italy have gone out of the World Cup on the couch, but that doesn't really matter.

What does matter is that in cancelling England - France (and potentially Japan - Scotland) World Rugby will lose out on a massive revenue generating opportunity. A huge television audience that would be very attractive to advertisers and sponsors. They won't get to hoover up all that cash now.

Pray for Brett, poor Brett. Left without his twitter account, slowly rocking himself in an ever-cooling bath with only bonkers Augustin Pichot for company.
No their money is guaranteed. It’s the Japanese who lose out. Although they’d happily take that for a QF place


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Re: RWC 2019

Post by The Doc »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Yeah I cant get on board with the issue around logistics with team equipment etc, not being funny but what equipment will Edinburgh be bringing with them for tomorrow's game?
I don't know the answer about Edinburgh - I do know some of the (English?) teams for the European games send trucks over by boat in the week before games
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Re: RWC 2019

Post by thepunter »

Moving on, why was Oita mooted as the alternate venue? Yes its far from the storm, but it was always going to be logistical issues for that venue.

My point is, it was an impossibility for the game to move from Fukuoka to Oita - its a 1000km (see image). Why didn't they moot somewhere closer before cancelling england's game?

Because they had no intention of moving venues for any games, and they didn't want to waste a good crisis.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by Hornet »

The Doc wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Yeah I cant get on board with the issue around logistics with team equipment etc, not being funny but what equipment will Edinburgh be bringing with them for tomorrow's game?
I don't know the answer about Edinburgh - I do know some of the (English?) teams for the European games send trucks over by boat in the week before games
Do remember seeing a Dublin reg van complete with Leinster decals, full of tackle bags and balls, parked up at the back of Plymouth Albion's Brickfield ground back in 2009, when Leinster 'A' played Plymouth. Thought it was strange at the time, that the extra expense of ferrying a van over with gear that could have been borrowed from the host team, was incurred.
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Re: RWC 2019

Post by Dave Cahill »

The Doc wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Yeah I cant get on board with the issue around logistics with team equipment etc, not being funny but what equipment will Edinburgh be bringing with them for tomorrow's game?
I don't know the answer about Edinburgh - I do know some of the (English?) teams for the European games send trucks over by boat in the week before games
Up until at least 2013, Leinster would send over a midsize panel van (lwb Transit sized) on the ferry to away matches in advance of the team
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nc6000
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Re: RWC 2019

Post by nc6000 »

I've seen the Leinster van a few times parked outside the stadium at away games in France and elsewhere, there is also usually a van from the visiting team parked outside the dressing room entrance under the Anglesea Stand in the RDS.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by Ruckedtobits »

I don't know the answer about Edinburgh - I do know some of the (English?) teams for the European games send trucks over by boat in the week before games[/quote]

Johnny O'Hagan (Leinster Bagman since time began) will give you Chapter and Verse about Essential Equipment and how to get it from A to B. It really is a question of near-military precision and any flaws are openly criticised and can lead to sanctions.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Sending vans isn't the important thing though, the important thing is whatever essential equipment is inside the van. So what's so essential that the teams can't play if it's not transported two/three days in advance?

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by Oldschool »

TBH
I don't get why the two cancelled games have been cancelled as early as they have been.
That decision could have been made 24 hours before ko.
Bearing in mind that the important thing is the result, the games should be played if at all possible.
Any collateral damage would be unfortunate but both games were very important for a lot of reasons.
The unfair advantage it gives to NZ, Eng and FRA in terms of turnaround time, injury risk....
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Re: RWC 2019

Post by Logorrhea »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Sending vans isn't the important thing though, the important thing is whatever essential equipment is inside the van. So what's so essential that the teams can't play if it's not transported two/three days in advance?
Agreed. Would much rather them whinge about a compromised warm up or last days prep, than not play the bloody game at all.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by dropkick »

thepunter wrote:Some strange stuff going on with world rugby.

From https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules
Where a pool Match cannot be commenced on the day in which it is scheduled, it shall not be postponed to the following day, and shall be considered as cancelled. In such situations, the result shall be declared a draw andTeams will be allocated two Match points each and no score registered. For the avoidance of doubt, no bonus points will be awarded.
  • * Now, early today our time, the telegraph reported that England's game with France was being moved to Oita indoors, it was a bit of a scoop for them, being as it was in advance of the official press conference at noon Japan time tomorrow.
    * Then, about 1.13 pm, the Telegraph and others started reporting that venue changes have been completely ruled out.
    * Firstly, Japan and Scotland needs to be played to decide the pool, as we all know.
    * England and France had already qualified so if they were considering games that would have venues changed, why was England france prioritised for Oita in the first place?
    * Why has Scotland Japan not been provisionally slated to be possibly moved to Oita on Sunday to save any issues? And give plenty of notice to everyone? Or another roofed stadium? Once the weather is confirmed tomorrow? The crowd don't matter, the game being played is what matters. Those that can make it to the game, great. Not one fan wants this abandoned, id say even the japanese don't want it, they know how it looks.
    * Neither namibia v canada, or Wales v Uruguay are playing in Oita Sunday, so it is free.
    * So why have they ruled out a venue change in the event the typhoon stops the possibility of play at the scheduled ground???
We've all seen the favouritism the refs have given Japan, even the most myopic of goons who believe in the sanctity of all that is rugby, can see it. It's also par for the course in world cups re: hosts. The Japan v Samoa decision at the end for the bp. The acknowledged mistakes v Ireland. Every host gets it. But this is taking it to a whole new level.

By ruling out a ground change before tomorrow's press conference (THAT's NOT IN THE RULES: it is within their remit to change the venue), and based on their own rules that it cannot be moved to the following day, World Rugby have managed to contrive a situation where Scotland could go out with an abandoned match, and Japan are carried into the Quarters, in the event the storm causes this to be unplayable.

Rule 2 under "Knock-out Matches"
Where a Match has to be abandoned at any time during the first half, the Match shall be played again in full within the two days following the scheduled Match day at the same Venue, or if required, an alternate Venue as directed by RWCL, for the full time, or such longer period as determined by RWCL.
. So a venue change is referred to for the rules on Knockouts, but no reference at all is in them rules for pools in relation to venue change. They CAN if they want change venue.

It looks ** (looks) like they realised that rescheduling le crunch would open them up to criticism if they abandoned and didn't reschedule Japan Scotland tomorrow at the press conference. Had the telegraph not reported a venue change this morning for England v France, this whole thing loses a bit of meaning. But because it was in the offing, serious questions now need to be answered.

Now its wait and see for scotland, if the weather is bad (and it is supposed to be) Scotland are out as any wiggle room has been shut down. Because they ruled out a venue change and won't get a chance to try beat Japan! It's a fait accompli pretty much - "look, its too late now, and we are not rescheduling any other games so that's just how it goes"

Lads it totally stinks. Like so much of the officiating at this world cup. And I believe it opens world rugby to legal action by Scotland - not that they would pursue going up against that organisation - they'd be murdered by refs for the next 30 years.

Brian Moore said that it was NZ who didn't want to move their game forward.


Seems they were the most keen in not moving. I presume world rugby granted them their wish so it ment other teams had to miss out. I mean you can't pick and choose what matches to cancel or move. It makes a mockery of the tournament but we can't have the kiwis moving a few days forward.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

World Rugby should really come out and give details about the alternative plans that they looked into, and what plans they said they had in place in the first place. The whole thing stinks.

Ourselves and Australia could be rightly pissed off if we end up picking up injuries while our QF opponents have their feet up.

I think we should protest by limping out at the QF stage.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by Logorrhea »

We will, and no one will care. Was listening to the BBC rugby podcast and surprised how accepting they were of the match cancellations. They kept on comparing the cancelling of matches to people dying as if it was one or the other.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by fourthirtythree »

News just in: the English don't give a flying f%~k about the Scots.

Look, when the soccer world Cup was in Japan (and Korea) it was hooky as be damned. Why would anyone expect anything different?
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Re: RWC 2019

Post by The Doc »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: I think we should protest by limping out at the QF stage.
+1

... And not going to Leinster A games - don't forget that
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Re: RWC 2019

Post by thepunter »

dropkick wrote:
thepunter wrote:Some strange stuff going on with world rugby.

From https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules
Where a pool Match cannot be commenced on the day in which it is scheduled, it shall not be postponed to the following day, and shall be considered as cancelled. In such situations, the result shall be declared a draw andTeams will be allocated two Match points each and no score registered. For the avoidance of doubt, no bonus points will be awarded.
  • * Now, early today our time, the telegraph reported that England's game with France was being moved to Oita indoors, it was a bit of a scoop for them, being as it was in advance of the official press conference at noon Japan time tomorrow.
    * Then, about 1.13 pm, the Telegraph and others started reporting that venue changes have been completely ruled out.
    * Firstly, Japan and Scotland needs to be played to decide the pool, as we all know.
    * England and France had already qualified so if they were considering games that would have venues changed, why was England france prioritised for Oita in the first place?
    * Why has Scotland Japan not been provisionally slated to be possibly moved to Oita on Sunday to save any issues? And give plenty of notice to everyone? Or another roofed stadium? Once the weather is confirmed tomorrow? The crowd don't matter, the game being played is what matters. Those that can make it to the game, great. Not one fan wants this abandoned, id say even the japanese don't want it, they know how it looks.
    * Neither namibia v canada, or Wales v Uruguay are playing in Oita Sunday, so it is free.
    * So why have they ruled out a venue change in the event the typhoon stops the possibility of play at the scheduled ground???
We've all seen the favouritism the refs have given Japan, even the most myopic of goons who believe in the sanctity of all that is rugby, can see it. It's also par for the course in world cups re: hosts. The Japan v Samoa decision at the end for the bp. The acknowledged mistakes v Ireland. Every host gets it. But this is taking it to a whole new level.

By ruling out a ground change before tomorrow's press conference (THAT's NOT IN THE RULES: it is within their remit to change the venue), and based on their own rules that it cannot be moved to the following day, World Rugby have managed to contrive a situation where Scotland could go out with an abandoned match, and Japan are carried into the Quarters, in the event the storm causes this to be unplayable.

Rule 2 under "Knock-out Matches"
Where a Match has to be abandoned at any time during the first half, the Match shall be played again in full within the two days following the scheduled Match day at the same Venue, or if required, an alternate Venue as directed by RWCL, for the full time, or such longer period as determined by RWCL.
. So a venue change is referred to for the rules on Knockouts, but no reference at all is in them rules for pools in relation to venue change. They CAN if they want change venue.

It looks ** (looks) like they realised that rescheduling le crunch would open them up to criticism if they abandoned and didn't reschedule Japan Scotland tomorrow at the press conference. Had the telegraph not reported a venue change this morning for England v France, this whole thing loses a bit of meaning. But because it was in the offing, serious questions now need to be answered.

Now its wait and see for scotland, if the weather is bad (and it is supposed to be) Scotland are out as any wiggle room has been shut down. Because they ruled out a venue change and won't get a chance to try beat Japan! It's a fait accompli pretty much - "look, its too late now, and we are not rescheduling any other games so that's just how it goes"

Lads it totally stinks. Like so much of the officiating at this world cup.

And I believe it opens world rugby to legal action by Scotland -


not that they would pursue going up against that organisation - they'd be murdered by refs for the next 30 years.

Brian Moore said that it was NZ who didn't want to move their game forward.


Seems they were the most keen in not moving. I presume world rugby granted them their wish so it ment other teams had to miss out. I mean you can't pick and choose what matches to cancel or move. It makes a mockery of the tournament but we can't have the kiwis moving a few days forward.
As you can see above, i called legal action due to how they've done it, it was as obvious a fait accompli as you could ever witness- cancelling the england france game and NZ game in such haste, so the precedent was set and they would have 'no option' for Scotland Japan. And legal action is being threatened, correctly, good on Scotland, stick it to them.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world- ... d=12275509
Last edited by thepunter on October 11th, 2019, 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by thepunter »

On another slightly related topic - I believe Farrell is suffering serious concussion after-effects. Lavanini creamed him in the noggin and John Quill did too, less than a week before for the USA. He (Farrell) was also in the news on Monday last as having an unspecified illness, before the cancellation was announced.

He was almost certainly not going to play the France game, nor was Billy V, who is in a boot for his ankle, due to Eddie Jones flogging him for what...., 9 games in a row now? His treatment of Vunipola shows he would have Farrell out there on the field with a broken leg. Farrell and him were also having a bit of a disagreement before the Argie game.

Farrell and Billy Vunipola are without doubt England's two most important players.

All very convenient to get this cancellation. And notwithstanding that, he may have major issues for the next game if he makes it - he isnt right - he missed 4 kicks in a row versus argentina, when has that ever happened.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

The Doc wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: I think we should protest by limping out at the QF stage.
+1

... And not going to Leinster A games - don't forget that
I already crossed that picket line!

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

So World Rugby have come out and said they're disappointed by the reaction of the Scots when they're doing everything they can to ensure the game goes ahead. Everything they can?! Jesus what are they on? They're doing absolutely nothing apart from praying that the typhoon passes and doesn't leave so much destruction in its wake that the game can go ahead!

They're a very sensitive bunch and seem to make a lot of public statements without thinking them through, and when they do need to say something they go missing, which is what leads to issues in the first place. I said it yesterday that they should have given an explanation as to what alternatives had been looked into but they didn't and that lead to a backlash which they've had to confront today. It was blatantly obvious that that was going to happen so why not get out in front of it?

The excuse they gave was that they couldn't rearrange certain games and not others, which is absolute horseshit tbf. They painted it as trying to be fair to all teams who were inconvenienced but that just makes it look like they bowed down to NZ and England. I don't think that's why they didn't say that initially though, I think it's because they sat on their hands and did f%~k all as this mess was unfolding.

Combined with the refereeing nonsense and the fact that they continuously have to change laws because they can't fix things properly in the first place and seem to have no concept of unintended consequences, they look like a bunch of clowns right now and big changes are needed.

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Re: RWC 2019

Post by thepunter »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: I said it yesterday that they should have given an explanation as to what alternatives had been looked into but they didn't and that lead to a backlash which they've had to confront today. It was blatantly obvious that that was going to happen so why not get out in front of it?
Oh but they did say (leaked to the telegraph) what alternative was looked at (On Wednesday morning, three days after the storm was red flagged everywhere) - "Oita" is being looked at they said.

Which is the other end of Japan.

So they could then say....sorry fellas "logistical reasons", game is off, and we can't cancel one game and change venue for another can we?

Then NZ heard England were getting a rest and said "f**ked if England are getting that huge advantage and we aren't!!, we are not agreeing to this unless we get cancellation too"

They all got out in front of it alright..., they cancelled England France before the storm changed, or before any journo might ask on the record, erm....Is Oita not a bit far away?

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