RWC2019 31-man squad

[Fan with smartphone]

Big Misserouters in order

Toner
Marmion
Murphy
Addisson
McGrath
Byrne

The leak means you are getting nothing more out of this Ireland camp until it’s over. That’s maybe the way he wanted it anyway.

Toner is a huge surprise. Even the maul defence alone, but Kleyn is no slouch there either and Joe must see more in Kleyn’s all round game. It’s a ruthless, ruthless call to a trusted player, but if that’s what he sees, he’s got to to do it. No wonder Joe was agonising about this. Can’t have been an easy conversation for either of them.

Marmion is really unlucky. I’ve always thought McGrath was the better of the two in a technical sense, but Marmion has a great game intelligence. He just knows how to win wee battles over and over and has a tendency to find a way to get something done over and above his technical skill set. I thought he would have swung it to be honest, but then again if you want to play more through your 10...I can understand why the technically better 9 gets the nod if you are only taking two of them.

Murphy is probably next cab off the rank for the inevitable backrow injury. I imagine he will continue to train with the squad and they won’t send him home until they absolutely have to. But it’s the correct call for me to take Ruddock if he is healthy and fit. He has managed to play well when neither at times and with luck could have a great World Cup.

Addison is, for me, the right call. Just had too much to do and Farrell gives us physicality in midfield that allows others to play. Big in the centres for some games perhaps? Joe has done it before.

McGrath I would’ve liked to see going but he hasn’t been at himself for a while, while Kilcoyne has. I understand it, but is an awful pity to leave a player with that quality in him behind. Had to be another brutally hard talk.

Byrne had a very difficult task v England and Carty an easier one v Wales. They had to take 3 with Carbery and Sexton carrying niggles and Carty just about won out. In the long run Byrne has higher ceiling, but it’s all about next 2 months, so I think that’s fair enough.

Can understand them all, but Joe has made the ruthless and brutal calls here. He has form for calling these things right.

[OTT]

Obviously the Toner one is f%~kin mahoosive because in a lot of our eyes Toner is a starter.

Personally, I think Henderson has a higher ceiling then Dev (no pun intended) but for years Henserson backs up a colossal performance with a lukewarm/insipid display. Joe has tried to make Henderson his starter before but he always ends up back picking Dev. He can't do that anymore. Touch wood Henderson delvers on his 7 years of undoubted promise.

He did thrive in the Lions 2 years ago and was unlucky not to make the Test side such was the quality around him so this type of tour environment might suit him.

[Experimental]

Pretty shocked by the Toner and Marmion omissions. I'd actually have had Marmion ahead of Murray at the moment. Real set piece gamble by Joe.

[sunshiner1]

by Experimental

Pretty shocked by the Toner and Marmion omissions. I'd actually have had Marmion ahead of Murray at the moment. Real set piece gamble by Joe.

Agreed. Baffled by Toner and Marmion being dropped. Can't believe Larmour made it in too based on his last performances. Think Joe has changed the game plan and Toner doesn't suit his needs anymore but still think it's risky. Haven't being impressed by Kleyn at all since I've seen him but maybe he is pulling up trees in training. We'll soon find out if he's right or not.

[Ruckedtobits]

Hugely disappointed for Marmion which is a decision which will come back to bite this Squad, IMO. The McGrath pass is too slow and too erratic. Only taking two scrum halves when the senior one is now entering his 2nd season with no / poor form is a big risk.

The decision on Dev is incomprehensible. Dev has never let Ireland or Leinster down in a match of any importance. Consistently he has reserved his best days for our biggest games. A bad decision by Joe and his fellow Coaches.

Surprised, but not disappointed, that Farrell & Addison got in as I think that both can contribute. Very pleased to see Rhys Ruddock get the nod as he adds a lot.

The guy who'll get least game time is John Ryan, possibly followed by Carbery or Farrel

[OTT]

Surprised, but not disappointed, that Farrell & Addison got in as I think that both can contribute. Very pleased to see Rhys Ruddock get the nod as he adds a lot.

Addison did not make it.

[hugonaut]

Farrell is blessed to be in there. He's a nice fellah and everybody likes him, but he has serious shortcomings as a three-quarter. He doesn't have much pace, any kicking game and is a very ordinary passer for a centre. He' s going to wind up being third choice No13 [behind Ringrose, then Henshaw] and third choice No12 [behind Henshaw or Aki, then the other one of that pair]. In fairness, he could be just the man for the Russia and Samoa games, because the first will be physical and the second will be a demolition derby. But Addison addressed more needs for us.

[johng]

Him and Kleyn are a model for Russia and Samoa.

[Ruckedtobits]

Surprised, but not disappointed, that Farrell & Addison got in as I think that both can contribute. Very pleased to see Rhys Ruddock get the nod as he adds a lot.

Addison did not make it.

I am so overcome by omission of Dev and Kieran Marmion that I overlooked Addison's exclusion. I've watched the first half on Saturday a couple of times over the w/e and was genuinely impressed by his fielding, running, tackling and passing. Another selection that is a mystery to me!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm completely bemused by all this talk about Marmion. What exactly does he bring to the party that has people up in arms, or indeed, "overcome"? Is he really that good that it's a crazy decision not to pick him? Or is Luke really that sh!t that it's a dreadful decision?

Barring injury or a huge points differential we won't be seeing the backup scrumhalf in any of the important games. If we do need him then Luke has shown against England and NZ that he can do well off the bench, so who cares?

I'd have gone with Marmion, think he just about earned it despite his form not being particularly good over the last couple of years, but whoever was picked was a big drop down from Murray and IMO he's had plenty of average performances for Ireland to go along with the good ones.

Luke is a brilliant defender, a leader, has a long standing relationship with Sexton and Carbery, a better box kicker than Marmion now (that's subjective and it's not like either of them are amazing), has played a lot of knockout rugby in Europe, and has shown that he can add tempo off the bench. Marmion is a fine scrumhalf but what exactly does he offer that renders all of that redundant?

I can get the arguments for Dev because of his experience and his importance at lineout time and at restarts, and I'm a bit confused as to why there isn't more talk about Jordi not going because of the issue that creates at 7, but the pro Marmion brigade baffles me.

[fourthirtythree]

Marion has always been decent. He's a solid pro but he neither has the game breaking prowess nor the body of work at I ternational level to make his ommision a surprise. Its only a surprise as he's always around.

I do get Toner. Schmidt doesn't see him as a starting th lock any more. And he was always iffy about that and instead he was auditioning for the bench spot b Beirne. He went with the more dynamic player in order to win a knockout match if you needed a change. I worry about our maul defense and lineout and also I think he's a great option if you're getting overpowered at the scrum. I figure Schmidt sees Kleyn as a step up on Roux who had performed that tight head lock role passably v south Africa and I guess he's in position to see that.

I was a bit less impressed with Addison than everyone seems to be and, again, if you bring on a back three sub to win a game who would you rather it be? I'd prefer Larmour. Though I'd prefer to start Addison..

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I was a bit less impressed with Addison than everyone seems to be and, again, if you bring on a back three sub to win a game who would you rather it be? I'd prefer Larmour. Though I'd prefer to start Addison..

Ditto. I think that Saturday's game was his third game in the entire calendar year. He was injured for the second half of the season, injured over the summer so joined the squad late, injured at some stage over the last couple of weeks, and went off early in Cardiff. People want him as a fullback option, but how many appearances has he made there for Ireland?

He's a talented guy and I'd have gone with him ahead of Farrell, but I can't understand the fuss about him being left out.

[Ruckedtobits]

Addison broke the line powerfully in counter-attack. He offloaded having broken the line, both inside and outside. He tackled line-breakers, one on one, off both shoulders. He kicked well out of defence, long and safely and he passed long and in front to initiate counter-attacks. He also took two high kicks and retained and recycled the ball with good presentation.

If he had not played on Saturday, I would have no complaints about his omission. However, based on his display on Saturday, coupled with a previous display last (?) November, he looked the best prospective full-back to cover for Rob Kearney.

Why include a player like him, with such an injury profile, if a performance where he does the position basics so well, counts for nothing?

[alanair]

Joe's explanation re specialist Tight head Lock position seems to me to be a strange reason to omit Dev... God knows , I dont know the inner machinations of the scrum ... but I always heard that Dev provided a very efficient and robust second row pressure through the Tight head ...

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Addison broke the line powerfully in counter-attack. He offloaded having broken the line, both inside and outside. He tackled line-breakers, one on one, off both shoulders. He kicked well out of defence, long and safely and he passed long and in front to initiate counter-attacks. He also took two high kicks and retained and recycled the ball with good presentation.

If he had not played on Saturday, I would have no complaints about his omission. However, based on his display on Saturday, coupled with a previous display last (?) November, he looked the best prospective full-back to cover for Rob Kearney.

Why include a player like him, with such an injury profile, if a performance where he does the position basics so well, counts for nothing?

How do you know it counted for nothing? Are the other performances irrelevant? Maybe it was between himself and Conway but Conway's form and durability won out? Maybe Joe hated the unnecessary offload that went to deck? Maybe the performance put him ahead of DK in the pecking order and now he's first reserve? Maybe he was set to go (as indicated by him being in the leaked squads this morning) but was injured?

There are loads of possible answers if you want to look for them.

[CiaranIrl]

Any fuss about most of the selection decisions is mostly pointless, because in nearly every case it's about who the right backup is that will never play. Who cares about Carty Vs Byrne in that neither will play very much. Conway and Farrell will barely play any meaningful minutes, so it's fairly irrelevant if Addison was more deserving. Similar with Jordi Vs Ruddock to be honest.

The difference with Toner is that I genuinely think he should be starting. His maul defence, restarts, lineouts, clear outs and even his ball handling are outstanding.

[hugonaut]

I was a bit less impressed with Addison than everyone seems to be and, again, if you bring on a back three sub to win a game who would you rather it be? I'd prefer Larmour. Though I'd prefer to start Addison..

Ditto. I think that Saturday's game was his third game in the entire calendar year. He was injured for the second half of the season, injured over the summer so joined the squad late, injured at some stage over the last couple of weeks, and went off early in Cardiff. People want him as a fullback option, but how many appearances has he made there for Ireland?

He's a talented guy and I'd have gone with him ahead of Farrell, but I can't understand the fuss about him being left out.

Have to say that I'm with RTB here, 100%.

There's a bit of recency bias – Farrell's most recent match saw him make 0m over 80 mins and throw one of his three passes on the ground. As an outside centre. To call it an ordinary performance would be to put its value way too high. It was just plain poor.

Addison has got a lot going for him that Farrell doesn't. He's got more pace, better balance, has better hands, is a better kicker, a placekicking option, a more intuitive footballer and covers more positions.

He is tailor-made for the No23 jersey ... he's started a first class pro game in every position from No11-15 over the last three years [including 55 starts on the wing for Sale, the majority on the right, but double-figures on the left]; he kicks goals; and his nominal positions for Ulster this season have been outside centre and fullback, two specific positions we were looking to cover behind incumbents.

He did well in the air against Wales and made a great last-gasp tackle on the touchline, exactly what you're looking for from a fullback in defense. He looked dangerous with the ball in hand. As important as his ability was his temperament: he had one chance to perform, and he performed. He's in form. I think all those are indisputables. Saying I'd prefer him at fullback to either Larmour or Conway is just an opinion.

Lastly, what more did JS want to see from him? I was sort of surprised to see him picked in the team for that game, because I thought that he had missed so much of the camp with injury that he had been written off. But then he got the nod and went very well ... and the guy with whom he is in competition [given that Addison played 9 of his 11 start at No13 for Ulster this year, that's Farrell] played a rubbish match. And then Addison gets axed the next day. It's a bit of a WTF moment. What more could he have done?

To be honest, I think picking this guy was an open goal.

[hugonaut]

Any fuss about most of the selection decisions is mostly pointless, because in nearly every case it's about who the right backup is that will never play. Who cares about Carty Vs Byrne in that neither will play very much. Conway and Farrell will barely play any meaningful minutes, so it's fairly irrelevant if Addison was more deserving. Similar with Jordi Vs Ruddock to be honest.

The difference with Toner is that I genuinely think he should be starting. His maul defence, restarts, lineouts, clear outs and even his ball handling are outstanding.

In fairness, we ended up having to play a load of backups in the QF last time out [Mads, Chris Henry, Jordi, etc.]. A huge focus for Schmidt, Farrell and Easterby has been building strength in depth over the last three season.

I agree with you on Dev. Practically every time he's out of the team, our lineout goes to sh*t. Then we bring him in for the next match, and miraculously it gets better. Now we can't bring him in for the next match.

[Blueberry]

Bizarre decision on Toner - unless he's not fit I just don't get it in anyway. He has given us a constant stable platform in the lineout for years now and his importance to our maul and maul defence is huge. He is so often the lynch-pin.

For me one of the first 7/8 guys on the plane - dead cert to start with Ryan in my book and now this ???

In fact the more I think about it the more bizarre it is.............and he brings Kleyn ??? That makes it even worse.

Anyway unless Toner is carrying a knock or something we don't know about I am beginning to wonder about Schmidt. His persistence with Angry Face and Stand up has bemused me now for sometime but this decision has me seriously wondering about what exactly is going on.......

And don't even start me on Rory.............

Anyway at least we'll have Toner and Ross in Dublin for Leinster...........

Gutted for Toner though, seriously what are they thinking ? It's demented.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Have to say that I'm with RTB here, 100%.

There's a bit of recency bias – Farrell's most recent match saw him make 0m over 80 mins and throw one of his three passes on the ground. As an outside centre. To call it an ordinary performance would be to put its value way too high. It was just plain poor.

Addison has got a lot going for him that Farrell doesn't. He's got more pace, better balance, has better hands, is a better kicker, a placekicking option, a more intuitive footballer and covers more positions.

He is tailor-made for the No23 jersey ... he's started a first class pro game in every position from No11-15 over the last three years [including 55 starts on the wing for Sale, the majority on the right, but double-figures on the left]; he kicks goals; and his nominal positions for Ulster this season have been outside centre and fullback, two specific positions we were looking to cover behind incumbents.

He did well in the air against Wales and made a great last-gasp tackle on the touchline, exactly what you're looking for from a fullback in defense. He looked dangerous with the ball in hand. As important as his ability was his temperament: he had one chance to perform, and he performed. He's in form. I think all those are indisputables. Saying I'd prefer him at fullback to either Larmour or Conway is just an opinion.

Lastly, what more did JS want to see from him? I was sort of surprised to see him picked in the team for that game, because I thought that he had missed so much of the camp with injury that he had been written off. But then he got the nod and went very well ... and the guy with whom he is in competition [given that Addison played 9 of his 11 start at No13 for Ulster this year, that's Farrell] played a rubbish match. And then Addison gets axed the next day. It's a bit of a WTF moment. What more could he have done?

To be honest, I think picking this guy was an open goal.

Then you're also with me because I said I'd pick Addison and leave out Farrell.

My issue wasn't the idea that RTB would pick Addison, it's that there was only one side to the story. You can't just look at what one guy did in 50(?) minutes of rugby and ignore everything else about the context of that game, last season, and what others will bring to Japan, which is what I think RTB did. Everyone is free to disagree with the logic behind the selection, but the point is that there is a logic to it.

I mean you could even make an argument that we don't need both Rhys and Beirne in the squad so leaving out Rhys could have paved the way for an extra back. Loads and loads of angles to look at this which are all more valid than simply thinking your guy should travel because he played well.