CONNACHT '08

[sewa]

Who gets the TV money from the HC? You guessed it the IRFU. So that figure is completely misleading. In fact the debate is utterly pointless due to the complexity.

[Royston Sole]

I don't doubt that there are many in Dublin who go to Leinster games because they like the style of rugby that is played.

God (and Knoxy) be with the days when that was true. Nowadays, the occasional champagne has been superceeded by an unending supply of flat ale, but still they come in their thousands to sup. I used to pity the hapless turnip supporters for their lack of discernment, but empirical evidence confirms that the disease is a highly contagious one.

O tempora, o mores.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

[combatlogo]

I don't doubt that there are many in Dublin who go to Leinster games because they like the style of rugby that is played.

God (and Knoxy) be with the days when that was true. Nowadays, the occasional champagne has been superceeded by an unending supply of flat ale, but still they come in their thousands to sup. I used to pity the hapless turnip supporters for their lack of discernment, but empirical evidence confirms that the disease is a highly contagious one.

O tempora, o mores.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That's enough erudition out of you!

[Sea_point]

Who gets the TV money from the HC? You guessed it the IRFU. So that figure is completely misleading. In fact the debate is utterly pointless due to the complexity.

Rubbish, Sewa how much exactly do you think the IRFU get fr6m Sky's TV contract with the ERC, and of that how much do you reckon that each of the provinces would get....

You're talking about a fraction of the money that the IRFU pumps into the pro game, most of comes from the International fixtures (tickets, broadcasting fees, corporate hospitality), ancillary contracts e.g. O2, Canterbury, Guinness, Powerade etc...

[jezzer]

Sea Point,

Where's the €40m you refer to in the accounts? Can't see it myself.

OK. I get from your tone you think I'm having a pop at Connacht and the challenges the province faces. I'm not. Frankly, it's irrelevant how many people outside of Dublin have season tickets, because Dublin could sustain a team on its own. The very fact Galway is relatively so small means Connacht needs all the fans it can muster from all corners.

The Sportsground isn't great. The facilities aren't great. I'm not claiming the IRFU have put what they really need to put into the province. But, the attendance stats don't lie - this is an undersupported region which - if it were a franchise - would be dead by now. Sure, a franchise might have pumped more money in, but that's not the IRFU way and if the region wants more money it needs to show there's a return out there on IRFU investment (in commercial and player terms)

All I'm saying is the IRFU/Connacht Rugby better see some improvement in attendances for the recent positive developments to continue and grow.

My bad the figure the IRFU are pumping in is 27,977,032 of which 24,301,611 is player and management costs.

And again your talking nonsense, it is exactly the IRFU way (except in name) they have done it for Munster & Leinster and Ulster to a lesser degree and Connacht have as always got the thin end of the wedge.

It's all very well speculating that Connacht will never take off. Who actually knows? What's difficult to understand about excluding 85% of your demographic at a stroke making it impossible to increase crowds?

There are only four pro teams in Ireland and they have ground capacities of 26.5K, 18K, 13K and 5-7K. That's 64,000 rugby supporters if the grounds are full. Is that the limit of rugby support in Ireland? I don't believe it is especially if you can get the best part of 50-60K people travelling to the UK for a single rugby match. Ultimately none of the provinces is able to field a team of entirely home grown (from their own province) players of the requisite standard, so there is a form of modified allegiance to the provinces.

They are not the teams of the amateur era, and now they are similar to teams in the Premier League. There are many Connacht people who attend Munster games that only go simply because Munster will win most time, likewise I don't doubt that there are many in Dublin who go to Leinster games because they like the style of rugby that is played. These same rugby supporters (and I make the distinction) might attend games at the Sportsground if things had been managed better by the IRFU & CB. Ultimately there are a large number of people who cannot/won't attend Munster & Leinster games because they cannot get tickets for the games they want. It's perfectly possible that these people would jump on board a Connacht bandwagon if there was a sing of improvement or a chance for silverware. Sure we were averaging 1,500 per game the season 6,500 piled into the Sportsground to watch us Vs Quins.....

Nothing is set in stone in terms of Connacht, if the IRFU set it up to fail (as they have done) it will fail, we all know that we can see it happening year on year. But it is very possible that Connacht could be come a lot more competitive if they managed the share out of resources better (money & players).

No I don't believe we'll ever see the day when Connacht will get 20,000 through the door, but then I'm looking at the model we currently have. Sure if 600 of us could get to Stockport to watch us get pummelled by Sale, and another couple of hundred to Newcastle then anything is possible.

Yeah, SP, the IRFU pumped money into Leinster, Munster and Ulster as priorities as that's where the main growth opportunities were. Again, and I'm flogging the dead horse here, I agree with you they should have put more money into Connacht, but it's not an unreasonable expectation that - having helped Connacht improve the squad this season - there is some evidence of it being money well spent in commercial terms. You want parity with the other provinces for Connacht without the quid pro quo of commercial growth. Not to the point you sell more jerseys than Munster or put more arses on seats than Leinster - that's ludicrous - but growth nonetheless. And 200 more heads per game won't cut it.

I'm not speculating that "Connacht will never take off". I'm saying if you start taking off at the first encouraging signs of investment from the IRFU and Branch, you'll get more money. Where's the problem with that?

[Sea_point]

Sea Point,

Where's the €40m you refer to in the accounts? Can't see it myself.

OK. I get from your tone you think I'm having a pop at Connacht and the challenges the province faces. I'm not. Frankly, it's irrelevant how many people outside of Dublin have season tickets, because Dublin could sustain a team on its own. The very fact Galway is relatively so small means Connacht needs all the fans it can muster from all corners.

The Sportsground isn't great. The facilities aren't great. I'm not claiming the IRFU have put what they really need to put into the province. But, the attendance stats don't lie - this is an undersupported region which - if it were a franchise - would be dead by now. Sure, a franchise might have pumped more money in, but that's not the IRFU way and if the region wants more money it needs to show there's a return out there on IRFU investment (in commercial and player terms)

All I'm saying is the IRFU/Connacht Rugby better see some improvement in attendances for the recent positive developments to continue and grow.

My bad the figure the IRFU are pumping in is 27,977,032 of which 24,301,611 is player and management costs.

And again your talking nonsense, it is exactly the IRFU way (except in name) they have done it for Munster & Leinster and Ulster to a lesser degree and Connacht have as always got the thin end of the wedge.

It's all very well speculating that Connacht will never take off. Who actually knows? What's difficult to understand about excluding 85% of your demographic at a stroke making it impossible to increase crowds?

There are only four pro teams in Ireland and they have ground capacities of 26.5K, 18K, 13K and 5-7K. That's 64,000 rugby supporters if the grounds are full. Is that the limit of rugby support in Ireland? I don't believe it is especially if you can get the best part of 50-60K people travelling to the UK for a single rugby match. Ultimately none of the provinces is able to field a team of entirely home grown (from their own province) players of the requisite standard, so there is a form of modified allegiance to the provinces.

They are not the teams of the amateur era, and now they are similar to teams in the Premier League. There are many Connacht people who attend Munster games that only go simply because Munster will win most time, likewise I don't doubt that there are many in Dublin who go to Leinster games because they like the style of rugby that is played. These same rugby supporters (and I make the distinction) might attend games at the Sportsground if things had been managed better by the IRFU & CB. Ultimately there are a large number of people who cannot/won't attend Munster & Leinster games because they cannot get tickets for the games they want. It's perfectly possible that these people would jump on board a Connacht bandwagon if there was a sing of improvement or a chance for silverware. Sure we were averaging 1,500 per game the season 6,500 piled into the Sportsground to watch us Vs Quins.....

Nothing is set in stone in terms of Connacht, if the IRFU set it up to fail (as they have done) it will fail, we all know that we can see it happening year on year. But it is very possible that Connacht could be come a lot more competitive if they managed the share out of resources better (money & players).

No I don't believe we'll ever see the day when Connacht will get 20,000 through the door, but then I'm looking at the model we currently have. Sure if 600 of us could get to Stockport to watch us get pummelled by Sale, and another couple of hundred to Newcastle then anything is possible.

Yeah, SP, the IRFU pumped money into Leinster, Munster and Ulster as priorities as that's where the main growth opportunities were. Again, and I'm flogging the dead horse here, I agree with you they should have put more money into Connacht, but it's not an unreasonable expectation that - having helped Connacht improve the squad this season - there is some evidence of it being money well spent in commercial terms. You want parity with the other provinces for Connacht without the quid pro quo of commercial growth. Not to the point you sell more jerseys than Munster or put more arses on seats than Leinster - that's ludicrous - but growth nonetheless. And 200 more heads per game won't cut it.

I'm not speculating that "Connacht will never take off". I'm saying if you start taking off at the first encouraging signs of investment from the IRFU and Branch, you'll get more money. Where's the problem with that?

The 300 person growth over two seasons was simply showing that even with worse results year on year and more depressing performances, there's still an interest.

Nothing wrong with what you're specifying but the IRFU have to put the blocks in place to ensure that there is a reasonable chance to do that. The ground has been well covered on the usefulness of Connacht to professional Irish Rugby, the opportunities to young players on the periphery of the provinces competing in the HEC who are not getting game time but are loath to move abroad whilst completing their education (and who the IRFU would prefer to keep local to monitor their development). Any way you cut it, they haven't in the past.

We sign one player, talented but on the periphery of the Highlanders squad and some people go, there you are you should be grateful. Sorry, but he's our biggest singing (by a country mile) in the pro-era because of the disparity enforced by the IRFU, so we're a long way past being grateful to them, maybe when we see some real investment (And we're not talking huge sums here, and not just for players either)...

Do I think we'll be more competitive this season, I really hope so. But then again Michael Bradley is the biggest caveat in Irish Rugby....

[El Diablo]

[Do I think we'll be more competitive this season, I really hope so. But then again Michael Bradley is the biggest caveat in Irish Rugby....

I can't understand why Bradley is still in a job. In the last 3 seasons he has failed not only with Connacht but with Ireland "A" as well. I constantly hear about the lack of investment down there but some good players have been brought in (Rigney, McCarthy, Dunne, Hearty, Flavin, Matthews, Donnelly, Swift, Gannon, Duffy, Deane, O'Connor etc.) and the results have got worse. Not to mention the guys who have been developed by the under age set up (Muldoon, O'Riordan, Durcan etc.).
Too many of these guys have underperformed to say that they are all just bad players. Coaches must take the rap for consistent underperformance.......unless you are Michael Bradley. I can't understand it.
I will keep cheering for them but if you don't get out of your European group this year, he should go straight away.

[El Diablo]

Anyone see the game against Leeds on Friday night? Any reasons to be more optimistic this season?

[olaf the fat]

Anyone see the game against Leeds on Friday night? Any reasons to be more optimistic this season?

If it keeps raining like this there might not be any left come the 1st weekend in Oct

[TrapperChamonix]

The League cannot afford to lose another club whether that be the Dragons or Connaught or Glasgow. So from that point of view the timing for the Connaught games against Leinster and Munster for Sunday evenings seems crazy. The League should be activly be seeking to help the struggling clubs through sympathic scheduling.

[Cossax]

Coach Michael Bradley has shown a willingness to trial all his squad by making 12 changes to his side for Connacht's clash with Harlequins at the Sportsground on Saturday (kick off: 6.30pm).

Connacht's international and Churchill Cup players, including Gavin Duffy, Johnny O'Connor, Keith Matthews, Sean Cronin and Ian Keatley will all play their first minutes of the season.

Cronin, Keatley, Liam Bibo and Frank Murphy will be starting for the first time.

The experienced Michael Swift starts for the first time since injuring a kidney against Leinster in February.

CONNACHT (v Harlequins): G Duffy; L Bibo, M Deane, K Matthews, J Hearty; I Keatley, F Murphy; B Wilkinson, S Cronin, R Morris; M Swift, A Farley; J Muldoon (Capt), J OConnor, C Rigney.

Replacements from: A Flavin, C Muldoon, R Loughney, J Lyne, B McGovern, A Browne, M McCarthy, K Campbell, A Dunne, T Nathan, A Wynne.

[Leinster Zulu]

Cronin, Murphy and Keatley all starting - better.

[Danthefan]

Connacht won 24-8 against a Quins team containing about 10 first choice players, so a strong enough side. Keatley hit 2 pens, a conversion, and 2 drop goals.

[hiberno]

I was in support of the Connacht Branch the last time the IRFU tried to put it out of business, so to speak, and I believe the province gets a raw in in terms of funding, but it's not use to throw money into a team just for the sake of it, unless there is a long term goal. Galway city is a poor spot for sport, I've been to soccer, 3 GAA sports and boxing there, but despite the best efforts of organisers and skilled marketing, there was more gravitas given to a couple of failed students who spend their days getting stoned and pretending to know poetry before begging/busking for euros on Eyre Square.

The big fuss over the Connacht marketing a couple of years back was rather nasty, and didn't have much to do with discrimination against rugby, the posters read "To hell or to Connacht" with the usual apocryphal imagery. It was getting notice and of course some of the more "sensitive" tofu eating loonies felt it was time we moved on, to hell with marketing, so to speak.

Galway United are struggling and I had contact with some of their management staff as well as manager, and the problem they had was the more successful they became (winning promotion to the top flight) meant LESS people coming through the turnstiles. Go figure that one!

[Sea_point]

Galway United are struggling and I had contact with some of their management staff as well as manager, and the problem they had was the more successful they became (winning promotion to the top flight) meant LESS people coming through the turnstiles. Go figure that one!

Not quite as simple as that, United earned promotion to the Premier Division by invitation from the FAI after all clubs were put through a financial and business review based on EUFA standards. Clubs that recieved UEFA Licences and scored higher in the review were given priority which is why United although finishing behind Dundalk in the First Division were promoted. Galway home record in the seaosn before promotion was woeful.

After promotion United the GUFC board proceeded to release a significant portion of their squad who were part-timers (with day jobs) and recruited replacements that were happy to play ful-time professionally. To fund a change from semi-pro to full-ime they increased the season tickets by a significant amount and then proceded to perform dreadfully which led to the sacking eventually (but far too late to survive relegation this season) of Tony Cousins to be replaced by Jeff Kenna.

The credit crunch has no doubt had an impact as well, but the bottom line is (no more than the Rugby team) that performances dictate the size of crowds and the real value of a match ticket. Connacht Rugby have recruited fairly well this season and the Connacht Branch has gambled heavily by making significant increases across the season ticket options. Unsurprisingly given the dreadful form of last few seasons the pick up has been very slow (about half of last seasons), and if the new signings don't deliver Connacht will lose some serious money (but like the other provinces with the safety net of the IRFU)...

Bradley makes 11 changes for London Welsh

Connacht v London Welsh
22/08/08
The Sportsground
Kick Off 6:30pm

Michael Bradley has made 11 changes and two positional switch to his side ahead of their third preseason friendly against London Welsh at the Sportsground on Friday (kick off: 6.30pm).

Troy Nathan is named at full back for the first time, in a back line which includes five changes in total. There is a new halfback partnership with Kieran Campbell and Andy Dunne linking up and Aidan Wynne partners Mel Deane in the centre, with Keith Matthews moving to the left wing and Fionn Carr taking his place on the right.

John Lyne, Conor Muldoon and Ronan Loughney form a new front row while Andrew Browne comes into the second row for his second start of the season. In the back row, Captain John Muldoon moves to number eight as Ray Ofisa and Michael McCarthy come in to take their positions on the flanks.

Connacht team:
T Nathan; F Carr, M Deane, A Wynne, K Matthews; A Dunne, K Campbell; J Lyne, C Muldoon, R Loughney; M Swift, A Browne; M McCarthy, R Ofisa, J Muldoon (C).

Replacements from:
A Flavin, S Cronin, B Wilkinson, B McGovern, A Farley, J O'Connor, C Rigney, F Murphy, I Keatley, G Duffy.

[hiberno]

Seapoint I agree that Galway went up to the top flight in a strange manner, but their business plan was sound and they did expect that there would be sustained interest in the club. Sure they reached high to try make things happen but that chance had to be taken, but the local support wasn't there, neither was the back up from the FAI (who have been continuing to pay little more than lip service to the lub game in Ireland). Balance this with the obsession witht he Sky Leagues and Irish football is at a big disadvantage. Balance this with what is happening with Connacht and the IRFU and the lack of funds being passed down. Imagine if for 2 years the IRFU gave 50% of funding to the Connacht Branch and they could bring in some high end playrs. Would it make a difference? Would the crowds pack the ground? I don't know, I see 5,000 as being a good target and anything over it as a bonus. Maybe I'm wrong.