CONNACHT '08

[LCD_Blue]

OK Connacht seem to adding some good players to bulk up their squad anybody got a full list of the in's and out's and what will be the strongest team they could field. I really hope this is not another false dawn for our western friends. No more excuses for Bradley as it seems that he now has a squad to compete in both the league and Europe.

[Leinster Zulu]

he now has a squad to compete in both the league and Europe.

Don't know about that. I think they should concentrate mainly on trying to overhaul either the Dragons (who'll be without the likes of Michael Owen and Ceri Sweeney while Colin Charvis is surely on his last legs) or Ulster in the ML - on paper, they definitely have the squad to give it a real go this season.

[tackle-bag]

Could be looking at a backline of 15. Carr 14. Riordan 13. Duffy 12. Ta'auso 11. McCarthy 10. Keatley 9. Murphy. If the forwards can get quick ball to that lot, you'd fancy them to make light work of the Dragons.

[Leinster Zulu]

Murphy ahead of Campbell at scrumhalf please!

[Sea_point]

Right as far as I know these are all the changes this season....

Players In - Season 2008-2009

* Kieran Campbell from Ulster
* Fionn Carr from Leinster
* Sean Cronin from Munster
* Ian Keatley from Leinster
* Frank Murphy from Leicester
* Mike Roberts from Glasgow
* Niva Ta'auso from Highlanders

Players Out - Season 2008-2009

* John Fogarty to Leinster
* Conor McPhillips to St Mary's College RFC
* Peter Durcan to Atlantique Stade Rochelais
* Kevin Moran - Released
* Tom Tierney - Retired
* Matt Mostyn - Retired
* Darren Yapp - Retired
* Ofisa Treviranus to Samoa Rugby Sevens

[tones]

Is there any weight to the rumour that Bradley, being refused the Munster job, was promised extra funding for Recruitment? He's signed a few players, who in the last year or two, may not have come.

[tackle-bag]

Murphy ahead of Campbell at scrumhalf please!

Good point! Apologies.

[Sea_point]

Is there any weight to the rumour that Bradley, being refused the Munster job, was promised extra funding for Recruitment? He's signed a few players, who in the last year or two, may not have come.

Not sure about that, but bear in mind we have lost a few senior players (Fogarty, Mostyn & Yapp) and brought in some young relatively inexperienced players who you would expect to be on lower salaries. So there should be extra capital around just from that to make the Niva Ta'auso signing.

Also Philip Browne of the IRFU in their Annual Report stated:

Connacht failed to make the knock-out stages of the European Challenge Cup but did put in some good performances most notably against Newcastle at home and also against Brive. Connacht continue to remain a competitive team particularly in the Magners League but their inability to close out matches seems to be a weakness. The Union is working closely with Connacht and the other provinces to encourage greater movement of players to Connacht to address this issue and also to give greater playing opportunities to players.

So that rings true when you look at the singing of Keatley, Carr & Cronin...

[jezzer]

Sea Point,

You won't like me for saying this but that's plenty of exenditure into Connacht for this season. Your pack has always been capable of mixing it with the ML middle order, but have had no cutting edge. Arguably now they have more to offer from 9-15. That should be enough to see them compete for the middle of the ML and give them a fair crack at HEC qualification.

That in turn should be enough for the crowds to finally start showing up. If they don't, then what's the point in the IRFU putting more money into the province? If Connacht can show they can attract 10k averages through the season, I'm in favour of them having equal funding status. So let's see if they can get 7,500 averages this year on the back of a much more balanced and competitive side. If they qualify for the HEC and the turnout hasn't increased appreciably - - then you have to say the IRFU were right in holding back money all these years.

[Mauler]

Sea Point,

You won't like me for saying this but that's plenty of exenditure into Connacht for this season. Your pack has always been capable of mixing it with the ML middle order, but have had no cutting edge. Arguably now they have more to offer from 9-15. That should be enough to see them compete for the middle of the ML and give them a fair crack at HEC qualification.

That in turn should be enough for the crowds to finally start showing up. If they don't, then what's the point in the IRFU putting more money into the province? If Connacht can show they can attract 10k averages through the season, I'm in favour of them having equal funding status. So let's see if they can get 7,500 averages this year on the back of a much more balanced and competitive side. If they qualify for the HEC and the turnout hasn't increased appreciably - - then you have to say the IRFU were right in holding back money all these years.

Jezzer, I kinda see where you are coming from. But if the IRFU cut the umbilical cord from Connacht, then they would be doing a disservice to Irish Rugby. However, the IRFU needs to do more to market Rugby in Connacht in General and Connacht Rugby in particular. I read a while back, an article by John Fallon I think before the Hairy Queens game in May’04 that BOI put up a big banner in Eyre Square promoting the banks sponsorship of Connacht Rugby, and Galway County Council (or UBC – I cant remember which) told them to take it down as they did not have planning permission. If I remember correctly, the argument was that if Galway GAA had been the ones playing and one of their sponsors had done something similar that there would have been a blind eye turned to the breach of the planning laws. Connacht needs to start attracting 3-5k crowds to games. If 3,800 can turn up for Leinster’s game in the Sportsground in a hurricane last February, and 5,300 for Munsters game in equally appalling conditions (both games were on Friday nights) then Connacht do have a market in Galway, they just need to tap into it more regularly.

[Mauler]

Grrrrr! Double Post

[Sea_point]

Sea Point,

You won't like me for saying this but that's plenty of exenditure into Connacht for this season. Your pack has always been capable of mixing it with the ML middle order, but have had no cutting edge. Arguably now they have more to offer from 9-15. That should be enough to see them compete for the middle of the ML and give them a fair crack at HEC qualification.

That in turn should be enough for the crowds to finally start showing up. If they don't, then what's the point in the IRFU putting more money into the province? If Connacht can show they can attract 10k averages through the season, I'm in favour of them having equal funding status. So let's see if they can get 7,500 averages this year on the back of a much more balanced and competitive side. If they qualify for the HEC and the turnout hasn't increased appreciably - - then you have to say the IRFU were right in holding back money all these years.

Yes it should, if Bradley is any sort of decent coach he should be able to make something of this squad. Coach is and has been the main worry for Connacht Supporters for the last two season. I'm not convinced that Bradley has the wherewithal to turn things around regardless what player walks in the door. And that and unrealistic increases in the season ticket pricing at a time of recession and on the back of three lousy seasons will affect attendance.

Remember that out of 58 ML games in the last three seasons we have won only 15 games and yet the average attendance has still grown marginally 1,900 avg in 05/06 to 2,300 in 07/08. There's definitely still scope for growth as long as we can develop a winning or competitive side, which is part of the reason that Munster & Leinster have been growing crowds. The other essential part of the product is the grounds and facilities to grow attendances, and that is an area where Connacht falls way behind the other provinces. The main stand is small and there are no other covered areas to stand in, the Branch has promised and failed to deliver yet a redevelopment of the Clubhouse side. But as yet there is only a new gym being built. (maybe we can all shelter in there.. )....

Realistically while strengthened our squad is still some way behind 80% of the other ML squads, the new lads offer a lot of potential but at this stage that is all it is. I would expect us to be as competitive as Dragons & Ulster this season, Glasgow and Edinburgh have proved to be more doughty competitors in the last two seasons and I'd expect we may we'll struggle a bit against them away from home. I'd hope that as the season develops and players settle in, that in the latter part of the season we may be able to pull off one or two surprises.

[jezzer]

Mauler,

I'm not talking about cutting the cord (yet anyway!)

But funding Connacht is a chicken and egg situation. Albeit 3 years too late, the IRFU have finally helped Connacht build a squad they can do some damage with. Not by any means a level playing field yet, but a decent squad. It's now up to Connacht to repay the faith with a decent upsurge in numbers. I have no idea if there really is sustainable interest in a competitive rugby team in the west, because there's never been one.

They took on a new marketing person and have been trying to present a more commercial front, but this is about more than banners and ads. Connacht fans should recognise that the IRFU has made the first move. If they can show the IRFU there is a self-financing (or thereabouts) model in the west, I'm sure they'll invest more. 3 teams to provide the elite squad for intnl level isn't enough.

Those guys that (rightly) marched on HQ to keep Connacht rugby going need to start forking out the ridiculously good-value €200 or so for a season ticket. Even if they're based in Dublin and can make 30% of the games, they need to be getting behind the club now.

Sea Point,

Take your point that the team isn't up to top-of-ML-level yet, but I don't buy the facilities argument. Thousands turn up to GAA matches where the supporter facilities are non-existant. Donnybrook was hardly a palace but it was packed the whole time. There needs to be double the number of avg fans, not a couple of hundred extra optimists!

[Leinsterman]

Donnybrook was hardly a palace but it was packed the whole time. There needs to be double the number of avg fans, not a couple of hundred extra optimists!

A bad night in Donnybrook is incomparable to a bad night in the Sportsgrounds!

[Sea_point]

Donnybrook was hardly a palace but it was packed the whole time. There needs to be double the number of avg fans, not a couple of hundred extra optimists!

A bad night in Donnybrook is incomparable to a bad night in the Sportsgrounds!

Or for that matter Ravenhill (Do not travel North without thermal insulation, nor West without waterproofing as well)......

[Sea_point]

Mauler,

I'm not talking about cutting the cord (yet anyway!)

But funding Connacht is a chicken and egg situation. Albeit 3 years too late, the IRFU have finally helped Connacht build a squad they can do some damage with. Not by any means a level playing field yet, but a decent squad. It's now up to Connacht to repay the faith with a decent upsurge in numbers. I have no idea if there really is sustainable interest in a competitive rugby team in the west, because there's never been one.

They took on a new marketing person and have been trying to present a more commercial front, but this is about more than banners and ads. Connacht fans should recognise that the IRFU has made the first move. If they can show the IRFU there is a self-financing (or thereabouts) model in the west, I'm sure they'll invest more. 3 teams to provide the elite squad for intnl level isn't enough.

I've heard some cr*p in my time but that beats it all, mate Leinster, Ulster & Munster aren't self financing. The IRFU have budgeted 40 million Euro for the professional teams this year, and of course they don't disclose how much of that is being directed Connacht's way. The fact is they haven't offered increased funding to enable Connacht to become more competitive or provide better facilities for supporters. They built a Gym, because Galway doesn't have any gym's....

Those guys that (rightly) marched on HQ to keep Connacht rugby going need to start forking out the ridiculously good-value €200 or so for a season ticket. Even if they're based in Dublin and can make 30% of the games, they need to be getting behind the club now.

And what percentage of Leinster supporters from outside of Greater Dublin (a buy season tickets (b Travel to games? The fact is that Galway's population is 72,000. There is another 430,000 people in the province, plus probably another couple of hundred thousand spread out outside the province.

Kick-offs at 6.30 on Friday does not realistically cater for the any of these. The reality is that the province is small and rural with cr@p public transport and roads, but that there is an audience there if the Connacht Branch facilitate access. That means not expecting supporters to shell out for a season ticket (which compared to Leinster's basic offering are no cheaper) and to take fifteen half days (if you include the ECC games) to support their province. Leinster & Ulster don't have to worry about those problems, there's a massive target audience right on the doorstep, Munster are HEC champions twice over so the sell isn't really hard either

Sea Point,

Take your point that the team isn't up to top-of-ML-level yet, but I don't buy the facilities argument. Thousands turn up to GAA matches where the supporter facilities are non-existant. Donnybrook was hardly a palace but it was packed the whole time. There needs to be double the number of avg fans, not a couple of hundred extra optimists!

In summer they come out in their Thousands, in winter they sit at home and watch Premier League football live because it's cheaper and dry. And Donnybrook was packed because you had the virtually the entire Irish backline lining out, try losing all your star names (basically switch squads) and then see how many would be rushing to the RDS

[Munsterboy]

Mauler,

I'm not talking about cutting the cord (yet anyway!)

But funding Connacht is a chicken and egg situation. Albeit 3 years too late, the IRFU have finally helped Connacht build a squad they can do some damage with. Not by any means a level playing field yet, but a decent squad. It's now up to Connacht to repay the faith with a decent upsurge in numbers. I have no idea if there really is sustainable interest in a competitive rugby team in the west, because there's never been one.

They took on a new marketing person and have been trying to present a more commercial front, but this is about more than banners and ads. Connacht fans should recognise that the IRFU has made the first move. If they can show the IRFU there is a self-financing (or thereabouts) model in the west, I'm sure they'll invest more. 3 teams to provide the elite squad for intnl level isn't enough.

I've heard some cr*p in my time but that beats it all, mate Leinster, Ulster & Munster aren't self financing. The IRFU have budgeted 40 million Euro for the professional teams this year, and of course they don't disclose how much of that is being directed Connacht's way. The fact is they haven't offered increased funding to enable Connacht to become more competitive or provide better facilities for supporters. They built a Gym, because Galway doesn't have any gym's....

Those guys that (rightly) marched on HQ to keep Connacht rugby going need to start forking out the ridiculously good-value €200 or so for a season ticket. Even if they're based in Dublin and can make 30% of the games, they need to be getting behind the club now.

And what percentage of Leinster supporters from outside of Greater Dublin (a buy season tickets (b Travel to games? The fact is that Galway's population is 72,000. There is another 430,000 people in the province, plus probably another couple of hundred thousand spread out outside the province.

Kick-offs at 6.30 on Friday does not realistically cater for the any of these. The reality is that the province is small and rural with cr@p public transport and roads, but that there is an audience there if the Connacht Branch facilitate access. That means not expecting supporters to shell out for a season ticket (which compared to Leinster's basic offering are no cheaper) and to take fifteen half days (if you include the ECC games) to support their province. Leinster & Ulster don't have to worry about those problems, there's a massive target audience right on the doorstep, Munster are HEC champions twice over so the sell isn't really hard either

Sea Point,

Take your point that the team isn't up to top-of-ML-level yet, but I don't buy the facilities argument. Thousands turn up to GAA matches where the supporter facilities are non-existant. Donnybrook was hardly a palace but it was packed the whole time. There needs to be double the number of avg fans, not a couple of hundred extra optimists!

In summer they come out in their Thousands, in winter they sit at home and watch Premier League football live because it's cheaper and dry. And Donnybrook was packed because you had the virtually the entire Irish backline lining out, try losing all your star names (basically switch squads) and then see how many would be rushing to the RDS

You tell 'em Seapoint.

Have to say I agree with you. It's not right to compare attendances etc. with the bigger sides because they have multiple advantages (including a greater degree of central funding).

Connacht will need central funding to remain competitive and is unlikely to ever be self-sustaining. That doesn't mean it won't serve a couple of very important purposes:
To develop Connacht players and young lads from the other provinces for the Irish team.
To give Connacht rugby supporters (existing and new) a decent standard of rugby to watch. Just because there aren't that many doesn't mean they don't count.

[jezzer]

Sea Point,

Where's the €40m you refer to in the accounts? Can't see it myself.

OK. I get from your tone you think I'm having a pop at Connacht and the challenges the province faces. I'm not. Frankly, it's irrelevant how many people outside of Dublin have season tickets, because Dublin could sustain a team on its own. The very fact Galway is relatively so small means Connacht needs all the fans it can muster from all corners.

The Sportsground isn't great. The facilities aren't great. I'm not claiming the IRFU have put what they really need to put into the province. But, the attendance stats don't lie - this is an undersupported region which - if it were a franchise - would be dead by now. Sure, a franchise might have pumped more money in, but that's not the IRFU way and if the region wants more money it needs to show there's a return out there on IRFU investment (in commercial and player terms)

All I'm saying is the IRFU/Connacht Rugby better see some improvement in attendances for the recent positive developments to continue and grow.

[Sea_point]

Sea Point,

Where's the €40m you refer to in the accounts? Can't see it myself.

OK. I get from your tone you think I'm having a pop at Connacht and the challenges the province faces. I'm not. Frankly, it's irrelevant how many people outside of Dublin have season tickets, because Dublin could sustain a team on its own. The very fact Galway is relatively so small means Connacht needs all the fans it can muster from all corners.

The Sportsground isn't great. The facilities aren't great. I'm not claiming the IRFU have put what they really need to put into the province. But, the attendance stats don't lie - this is an undersupported region which - if it were a franchise - would be dead by now. Sure, a franchise might have pumped more money in, but that's not the IRFU way and if the region wants more money it needs to show there's a return out there on IRFU investment (in commercial and player terms)

All I'm saying is the IRFU/Connacht Rugby better see some improvement in attendances for the recent positive developments to continue and grow.

My bad the figure the IRFU are pumping in is 27,977,032 of which 24,301,611 is player and management costs.

And again your talking nonsense, it is exactly the IRFU way (except in name) they have done it for Munster & Leinster and Ulster to a lesser degree and Connacht have as always got the thin end of the wedge.

It's all very well speculating that Connacht will never take off. Who actually knows? What's difficult to understand about excluding 85% of your demographic at a stroke making it impossible to increase crowds?

There are only four pro teams in Ireland and they have ground capacities of 26.5K, 18K, 13K and 5-7K. That's 64,000 rugby supporters if the grounds are full. Is that the limit of rugby support in Ireland? I don't believe it is especially if you can get the best part of 50-60K people travelling to the UK for a single rugby match. Ultimately none of the provinces is able to field a team of entirely home grown (from their own province) players of the requisite standard, so there is a form of modified allegiance to the provinces.

They are not the teams of the amateur era, and now they are similar to teams in the Premier League. There are many Connacht people who attend Munster games that only go simply because Munster will win most time, likewise I don't doubt that there are many in Dublin who go to Leinster games because they like the style of rugby that is played. These same rugby supporters (and I make the distinction) might attend games at the Sportsground if things had been managed better by the IRFU & CB. Ultimately there are a large number of people who cannot/won't attend Munster & Leinster games because they cannot get tickets for the games they want. It's perfectly possible that these people would jump on board a Connacht bandwagon if there was a sing of improvement or a chance for silverware. Sure we were averaging 1,500 per game the season 6,500 piled into the Sportsground to watch us Vs Quins.....

Nothing is set in stone in terms of Connacht, if the IRFU set it up to fail (as they have done) it will fail, we all know that we can see it happening year on year. But it is very possible that Connacht could be come a lot more competitive if they managed the share out of resources better (money & players).

No I don't believe we'll ever see the day when Connacht will get 20,000 through the door, but then I'm looking at the model we currently have. Sure if 600 of us could get to Stockport to watch us get pummelled by Sale, and another couple of hundred to Newcastle then anything is possible.

[sewa]

Who gets the TV money from the HC? You guessed it the IRFU. So that figure is completely misleading. In fact the debate is utterly pointless due to the complexity.