ML 08/09 Average Attendences

[TrapperChamonix]

Call me sad but I've been thinking about the likely Average Attendences for 08/09 attendences. I believe there could be a significant increase in the numbers for most of the teams. You can see the top 6 teams all attracting averages of 10k plus (capacity allowing) in the next 2 years and Edinburgh still have significant potential. This would mean 7 of the 10 teams beginning to close the attendance gap on the Premiership / French teams. Its the bottom 3 teams that continue to have real difficulties with seemingly no plan for improvement. The medium term success of the league depends on these 3 teams surviving.

Leinster
07/08 14.4k Prediction 08/09 15,5k
With the increase of Season ticket holders and lack of WC matchs (applys to all teams) should give significant increase to those matches which were on the lower end of he spectrum last year. Even so I can't see us move muck above 15k and that would require the lowest attendance to be 13k. Next big jump in averages will come with the opening of LR and opportunity for the Munster and Ulster matches to be moved there.

Ulster
07/08 9.7k Prediction 08/09 10.2k
After the discontent last season you would expect to see them back close to their 10k plus of 2 years ago. Not sure what the timing of the new stand and implicatations on capacity will be.

Ospreys
07/08 9.0k Prediction 08/09 9.0k
I'm guessing they won't increase next year and you could almost see some decline. You just get the impression that they firing on all cylinders as a club.

Cardiff
07/08 8.2k Prediction 08/09 9.0k
Expect continued growth building on 8% increase last year.

Llanelli
07/08 7.3k Prediction 08/09 8.0k
Given the new stadium will not be in play till Nov, I suspect the effects will be only be fully felt in the following year.

Munster
07/08 6.8k Prediction 08/09 8.7k
I know, I know we all say they only turn out for the HC, but HC holders, a new stadium (no longer limited by Musgrave capacity for the bigger games), no world Cup and the AB coming to town has to have a significant effect. Plus a new stadium in itself will be a much better experience. We increased our average by 105% in 06/07, I think Munster will have a big year this year with between 8.5 to 9k.

Dragons
07/08 5.4k Prediction 08/09 5.5k
Not sure I can see much improvement here.

Edinburgh
07/08 2.7k. Prediction 08/09 3.5k
Down 11% last year, they must bounce back given the performance of the team and the lack of certainty that applied last year. I know Scottish rugby isn't in the best nic at the moment, but Edinburgh has still only tapped into a fraction of its potential.

Connaught
07/08 2.3k. Prediction 08/09 2.5k
Glasgow
07/08 2.2k. Prediction 08/09 2.5k
You'd love to see significant growth here, but I'm not sure where ist coming from.


Sorry, can't work out how to put in a table.

Celtic League 08 / 09 Prediction 07 / 08 06 / 07
Home Ave Gwth Ave gwth Ave gwth
Leinster 15,460 8% 14,361 21% 11,892 105%
Ulster 10,200 4% 9,661 -5% 10,207 11%
Ospreys 9,000 0% 8,969 -1% 9,028 8%
Cardiff Blues 9,000 9% 8,241 8% 7,643 3%
Llanelli Scarlets 8,000 10% 7,300 14% 6,397 -2%
Munster 8,750 30% 6,756 -3% 6,958 1%
Dragons 5,500 1% 5,442 -2% 5,573 8%
Edinburgh Gunners 3,500 31% 2,681 -11% 3,015 17%
Connacht 2,500 11% 2,260 14% 1,981 11%
Glasgow Warriors 2,500 15% 2,167 4% 2,090 31%
Game Average 66,969 10% 61,054 1% 60,344 16%

[

[ruck]

Call me sad but I've been thinking about the likely Average Attendences for 08/09 attendences.

You're sad.

[sarah_lennon]

For a city the size of Edinburgh to be getting less than 3k per game is shocking imo!

[Mauler]

For a city the size of Edinburgh to be getting less than 3k per game is shocking imo!

Agreed, but the first thing that they should do is find another place to play their games rather than in a 67,500 seater stadium. Even if they were getting crowds of 20k the place would still be atmosphere less. I went to the ‘A’ International in Myreside in ‘99, which is the home ground of Watsonian FC in Edinburgh, It was similar to Donnybrook, a stand on one side and terrace on the other. I know that the Scottish clubs have not bought into the two Provincial sides, but surely a club could not be that well off to turn down the rental income and off field revenue generation 3 H Cup games and 9 ML games would bring in from Edinburgh playing in their ground?

[Leinster Zulu]

Llanelli
07/08 7.3k Prediction 08/09 8.0k
Given the new stadium will not be in play till Nov, I suspect the effects will be only be fully felt in the following year.

90% of their ML matches this season will be played in their new stadium, and the one that isn't is the Connacht match.

[tones]

For a city the size of Edinburgh to be getting less than 3k per game is shocking imo!

Agreed, but the first thing that they should do is find another place to play their games rather than in a 67,500 seater stadium. Even if they were getting crowds of 20k the place would still be atmosphere less. I went to the ‘A’ International in Myreside in ‘99, which is the home ground of Watsonian FC in Edinburgh, It was similar to Donnybrook, a stand on one side and terrace on the other. I know that the Scottish clubs have not bought into the two Provincial sides, but surely a club could not be that well off to turn down the rental income and off field revenue generation 3 H Cup games and 9 ML games would bring in from Edinburgh playing in their ground?

Edinburgh used to play there, think MeadowBank suited them very well either.

[sarah_lennon]

SRU have the franhise back don't they? Can't see them wanting to lose money any more than they already are by opening up Murrayfield to those types of crowds..

[[Jackass]]

SRU have the franhise back don't they? Can't see them wanting to lose money any more than they already are by opening up Murrayfield to those types of crowds..

Yeah but I don't think it'll make much difference. I think the likes of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Connacht (sorry! ) and Dragons put the league in real danger by not being up to scratch or developing enough along with the rest of us.

Dragons are getting their act together off the field at least, but Connacht need to move (it's geographically such a scattered provence I don't know if they will ever be able to get enough fans to games as no matter where they play fans will have to travel great distances just to get to a "home" game, never mind the lack of rugby pedigree and tradition in the provence..sorry again connacht, you're my second team, but just stating what I think).

I don't know and can't understand how the Scottish teams are failing so badly, it really baffles the mind that Glasgow can host 2 massive soccer teams but can't get anybody to a rugby match and that Edinburgh has no massive sporting teams going on, but can't either...they need a move also, it's insane playing in Murrayfield and I have a feeling that they "like" that as almost part of their game plan, like an "anti-atmosphere" makes it more difficult for opposition teams to play, but in the long run it will kill them if they don't build up a real fan base, plus Murrayfield is miles out, move into the city.

I think facility wise the Welsh are light years ahead of the rest of us with 4 brand new stadiums over the past couple of years. Ospreys is superb, Llanelli is very good, Cardiff is superb and Dragons is very good. All of which are easily expandible looking to the future also.

One gripe I have that I'll never be 100% happy about is I think Leinster should take the oppertunity to develop our own ground. I love the RDS, but not owning it means I can't fall fully in love with it, but if we did own it I think it would be brilliant. Donnybrook is too small to develop to the sort of ground we require and I think if we don't sort it out we'll really live to regret it in the long run. (as it stands I'm not sure LR would suit.)

I would love to see us pushing to about 16,000 average this season. I think Munster will have a higher attendance than given in the above figures when you look at all that's going in their favour: European Champions, Brand new stadium, exebition game with NZ XV all this equates to a "buzz" factor and I wouldn't be surprised if they averaged about 15,000 this season.

Ulster I think should get great crowds...it's the sign of having real fans and great fans that they sat at the foot of the table all season and went to all of the non-glamour games crashed out of the HC and didn't really have any big games, but managed to bring in close to 10,000 people for each game. Fair play to them.

[olaf the fat]

"One gripe I have that I'll never be 100% happy about is I think Leinster should take the oppertunity to develop our own ground. I love the RDS, but not owning it means I can't fall fully in love with it, but if we did own it I think it would be brilliant. Donnybrook is too small to develop to the sort of ground we require and I think if we don't sort it out we'll really live to regret it in the long run. (as it stands I'm not sure LR would suit.)"

We do have a 20 year lease on the RDS, come on let the love out

[TrapperChamonix]

Biggest 1 year jump for any club was us in 06/07 which was an increase of 6k and that included a full LR for the last stand. So I can't see Munster getting any where near 15k. If they reach 10k by 09/10, it would be a good result.

[TrapperChamonix]

tones, I have 2 edinburger friends (must be a better term than this) and they hated Meadowbank. Big bowl with a running track and no atmosphere (sounds like Murrayfield) but more importantly its the wrong side of town. They also say that various discussions have taken with clubs to use their facilities, but the clubs aren't interested. They've even considered temporary stands on the pitch beside Murrayfield.
The all firmly blame the Franchise / SRU / Carruthers debacle as a prime cause of disillusionment with the rugby supporters in Embra.

[sewa]

Cork is sold out for all games already (Approx 7500 per game). Not sure what the level of demand in Limerick is for Ml but the 3 HC games and the AB game are full sellouts (26,000). Hard to know accurately but I reckon there will be about 10,000 tickets sold for each Ml game in Limerick at a guesstimate.

[Leinsterman]

Cork is sold out for all games already (Approx 7500 per game). Not sure what the level of demand in Limerick is for Ml but the 3 HC games and the AB game are full sellouts (26,000). Hard to know accurately but I reckon there will be about 10,000 tickets sold for each Ml game in Limerick at a guesstimate.

It's a pity the Munster HEC tickets are sold in the manner they are. If they were sold in the same way the Leinster season tickets are, you could be sure that every Munster home match would be a guaranteed sell-out. However, the dual location of Munster pitches (Cork and Limerick), the set-up of the MSC, clubs getting tickets etc makes it a little more difficult to sell out completely.
It would be good to see maybe 3 sell-outs in Thomond this season for the ML. Are all the interpros being held there?

[TrapperChamonix]

How many in Cork v Limerick. Is it 50 / 50 for the ML?

[TrapperChamonix]

sorry 9 home games don't go 50:50. But I guess you knew what I meant

[sewa]

Only 4 in Cork unfortunately. None next year while MP is being redeveloped to 12,000 capacity.

[TrapperChamonix]

Probabaly put the number closer to 10k for the ML. (4 in Musgrave at 7.5 plus 15 for Leinster Connaught and 3 * 10 )

[BRulster]

Ulster
07/08 9.7k Prediction 08/09 10.2k
After the discontent last season you would expect to see them back close to their 10k plus of 2 years ago. Not sure what the timing of the new stand and implicatations on capacity will be.

It will vary, but given that they have been unable to offer any new terrace season tickets this year, I would expect capacity to be greatly reduced at times. Think the schedulders did us a favour with more home games 1st half of season, but it's bound have a big effect on the average.

[jrc]

Murrayfield is miles out, move into the city.

I've been to Murrayfield twice, and both times I've walked there from the city centre, in less than half an hour. It's probably the same distance from Edinburgh city centre as Lansdowne is from Dublin city centre....

[Wasp]

Probabaly put the number closer to 10k for the ML. (4 in Musgrave at 7.5 plus 15 for Leinster Connaught and 3 * 10 )

Not sure about the actual attendances for the Magner League matches, but the SALES for them via season tkts for Thomond Park is pretty high:-
3,000 10 year tickets
5,000 via the clubs
5,700 MRSC
That amounts to 13,700 already

Season tkts for the Magner matches in Thomond only have also been on sale but no feedback on the level of sales to date ......

An additiional 6k HEC tkts are sold through the clubs => HEC matches will be pretty well sold out.


All season tickets for Musgrave Park have been sold out.