Munster Thread

[Grumpy Old Man]

Munster coach Tony McGahan has named his side for the Magners League opener against Edinburgh on Friday.

McGahan chose to name the side for his first competitive game as Munster coach after training today in Cork.

All those who took part in the 35-14 warm-up victory over London Irish at the weekend took a full part in that session.

The defending Heineken Cup champions finished third in the Magners League last season.

MUNSTER team to play Edinburgh on Saturday at 7.30pm:

D Howlett; K Earls, L Mafi, R Tipoki, I Dowling; R O'Gara, T O'Leary; M Horan, J Flannery, J Hayes; D O'Callaghan, P O'Connell capt; D Ryan, J O'Sullivan, D Wallace

Replacements: F Sheahan, F Pucciariello, M O'Driscoll, J Melck, P Stringer, P Warwick, B Murphy

[[Jackass]]

No big surprises and good to see. It would be a farce to keep Hurley in that team as he is utterly sh*te.

Good move by Munster also to put Howlitt at FB, he will see a lot more of the ball there. Not the most intimidating back 3 in the world though with a winger at FB, a centre at RW and a sack of spuds on LW, not much cause for concern. Probably the strongest team Munster could field though, and judging by all the noise coming from the Munster camp (and article in todays indo quoting Paul O'Connell more or less stating that this season they are focusing on their squad depth to concentrate on both titles, and vastly improve "consistancy" in ML) they are really taking this competition seriously this year and going for a double, which of course is great for the league.

I know they're down 2 (?) of there first choice backrow, plus the retirement of Foley, but does that backrow seem a bit light weight also?

[Mach10]

No big surprises and good to see. It would be a farce to keep Hurley in that team as he is utterly sh*te.

Good move by Munster also to put Howlitt at FB, he will see a lot more of the ball there. Not the most intimidating back 3 in the world though with a winger at FB, a centre at RW and a sack of spuds on LW, not much cause for concern. Probably the strongest team Munster could field though, and judging by all the noise coming from the Munster camp (and article in todays indo quoting Paul O'Connell more or less stating that this season they are focusing on their squad depth to concentrate on both titles, and vastly improve "consistancy" in ML) they are really taking this competition seriously this year and going for a double, which of course is great for the league.

I know they're down 2 (?) of there first choice backrow, plus the retirement of Foley, but does that backrow seem a bit light weight also?

Stupid analysis galore.

Hurley has one real weakness in his game and you're calling him utterly shite. Good vision on the ball, good turn of speed, good coming into the line, good boot, solid tackler and decent positioning. All this and he's barely over double figures for appearances. Sure he can improve his fielding and decision making but you're talking bull.

That 3/4s is pretty intimidating if it gets ball which I'm sure it will. You have pace and power and plenty of line-breaking ability. All solid defenders also. Howlett's positioning at FB wasn't a bit suspect v LI either and his covering was VG. Earls has played in the ML and CC at wing.

Ryan has bulked up a good deal over the off-season. No problem with size with Wally since he's always had power. JOS might be considered a bit lightweight but should be fine. I just wonder why JOS and Wallace aren't in their preffered position. JOS had a good game v the Ospreys at 7 last season but still has nothing on Wallace from openside imo. Interested in seeing how Wally will do from 8 though.

Would have preffered to have seen Hurley, Howlett, Earls, Mafi, Dowling, ROG, Strings, JOS, Wallace, Holland, Ryan, POC, Buckley, Fla, Horan.

[Dave Cahill]

Hurley has one real weakness in his game and you're calling him utterly shite.

Unfortunately its a fairly focking important one for a full back!

As it happens, I don't subscribe to the theory that hes weak under the high ball. He looks like a guy with a case of the yips, it'll pass.

[Mach10]

Hurley has one real weakness in his game and you're calling him utterly shite.

Unfortunately its a fairly focking important one for a full back!

As it happens, I don't subscribe to the theory that hes weak under the high ball. He looks like a guy with a case of the yips, it'll pass.

Oh, I know but the theory seems to be that since he can't seem to catch the ball, he may aswell just give up. The fact that he has a lot going for him otherwise is irrelevant. Shur, when did a young Irish full back ever improve a vital part of his game to become a VG full back?

[Dave Cahill]

Hurley has one real weakness in his game and you're calling him utterly shite.

Unfortunately its a fairly focking important one for a full back!

As it happens, I don't subscribe to the theory that hes weak under the high ball. He looks like a guy with a case of the yips, it'll pass.

Oh, I know but the theory seems to be that since he can't seem to catch the ball, he may aswell just give up. The fact that he has a lot going for him otherwise is irrelevant. Shur, when did a young Irish full back ever improve a vital part of his game to become a VG full back?

The downside is though, that the only way to get through it is to play through it. When Kearneys form dipped, it was in a game against Munster in TP where he was thrown in at the deep end after an injury to Girve than got him back on track. When Girves form dipped, four or five years ago, it was a game against France in paris after Murphy and Payne cried off injured, that got him going again.

[Mach10]

Unfortunately its a fairly focking important one for a full back!

As it happens, I don't subscribe to the theory that hes weak under the high ball. He looks like a guy with a case of the yips, it'll pass.

Oh, I know but the theory seems to be that since he can't seem to catch the ball, he may aswell just give up. The fact that he has a lot going for him otherwise is irrelevant. Shur, when did a young Irish full back ever improve a vital part of his game to become a VG full back?

The downside is though, that the only way to get through it is to play through it. When Kearneys form dipped, it was in a game against Munster in TP where he was thrown in at the deep end after an injury to Girve than got him back on track. When Girves form dipped, four or five years ago, it was a game against France in paris after Murphy and Payne cried off injured, that got him going again.

Exactly. He's still the long-term option for 15 at Munster if not the short-term one for the time-being, so shelving him until we're forced to play him makes little sense. I hope he begins to get games soon enough and expect this aspect of his game to improve. What else would he have been working on over the late summer?

[Leinster Zulu]

From Heineken Cup winner to playing in the AIL in the space of a few months. Ouch.

[[Jackass]]

From Heineken Cup winner to playing in the AIL in the space of a few months. Ouch.

Stupid analysis galore.

Ah I wouldn't say that. Sure you seem to admit yourself that for a Munster pack that that backrow could be slightly on the light weight side, I certainly wouldn't be concerned seeing our back row go out to eat that alive, but fair enough, injuries permitting.

As for Hurley, the fact that he can't catch a ball isn't the only reason I don't rate him, I actually just don't think he's much of a player from what I've seen of him in general. Adequete. Granted he is young and has a lot of rugby to play yet and by the end of the season I could be eating my words, but I genuinely just don't really rate him from what I've seen (which is only a handful of games by the way). Also I think the fact that Earls was given game time at full back for Munster in preseason doesn't exactly light me up with optomisim either.

Dowling, well, we don't need to start on that, and Howlett I think is a good move, but not his favourite position and probably wont be used to his full potential at FB, but I don't doubt he will do a very good job there. You could put him almost anywhere in the backline and he'd do well.

[ruck]

No big surprises and good to see. It would be a farce to keep Hurley in that team as he is utterly sh*te.

What a load of sh!t. You admit that you've barely seen him play, yet you decide it's ok to say that he's utter sh!t. You are an idiot.
He's lacking confidence under the high ball, all other aspects of his game are fine. But you are probably one of these people who takes glee from calling anybody playing for Munster sh!t.

Back to the rest of the team, great to see Earls starting, even if it is on the wing. Interesting interview with A Horgan on one of the papers today where he thinks that Earls is too good to be stuck out on the wing. And he says that despite the fact that he's losing his position to Earls.

[tones]

No big surprises and good to see. It would be a farce to keep Hurley in that team as he is utterly sh*te.

What a load of sh!t. You admit that you've barely seen him play, yet you decide it's ok to say that he's utter sh!t. You are an idiot.
He's lacking confidence under the high ball, all other aspects of his game are fine. But you are probably one of these people who takes glee from calling anybody playing for Munster sh!t.

Back to the rest of the team, great to see Earls starting, even if it is on the wing. Interesting interview with A Horgan on one of the papers today where he thinks that Earls is too good to be stuck out on the wing. And he says that despite the fact that he's losing his position to Earls.

Yeah "Fat b$&%@#d" wants him the centres so he has a chance of getting his wing spot back

[ruck]

I'd say unless we have injuries between now and Christmas, we're unlikely to see Horgan in a Munster jersey again. His contract expires in December.
He's lost over a stone in the summer, so calling him "Fat b$&%@#d" may not be relevant anymore.

[ruck]

Horgan on a mission

Thursday September 04 2008

THERE'S only a few of them left now - the players who were there when Munster effectively entered the professional era following Declan Kidney's appointment as coach in 1997.

Alan Quinlan is one, in the form of his life last season, John Hayes soldiers on as indestructible as ever in the front row and there are others such as Frankie Sheahan, Marcus Horan, Mick O'Driscoll and the half-backs Ronan O'Gara and Peter Stringer, baby-faced whippersnappers when Kidney plucked them from the All-Ireland League in the late 1990s.

Many more have retired, Gaillimh and Claw are gone since the early part of the decade and two more Munster icons, Anthony Foley and John Kelly, stepped back last season after years of distinguished service.

But Anthony Horgan is still around, a regular on the left wing since Kidney first called him up 11 years ago but a man who has struggled to hold down his place in recent seasons.

However, rather than be resigned to departure when his short-term contract expires in December, Horgan is using the situation as a motivation to prove a point, to those who have written him off and to himself.

"I have a contract until December so it's up to me. I have to prove my form deserves recognition and it's a huge motivational factor," says the 31-year-old.

"It's a personal thing now, my destiny is in my own hands and it has given me a determination to prove myself. I've lost about 7kgs [over a stone] and I feel really fit."

The engaging winger says his uncertain future has forced a change of off-field attitude, something he admits was not always what it should have been.

"I have been in the doldrums for a couple of seasons," he acknowledged.

"When I wasn't getting picked, I reacted badly, throwing my toys out of pram when I should have been focused on forcing my way back into the team.

"Now that I am facing the door I have a totally different outlook. I feel as good and as motivated as I ever have and I'm pretty happy with my form. My intention is to play for Munster for the next seven months and then we'll see."

Jostling

Horgan has performed very well in pre-season but there is plenty of jostling for the wing berths in Munster and he has lost out for tomorrow night's Magners League clash with Edinburgh.

"There's huge competition for places just as there was last season, when I had a mixed time of it. I had some decent form in the Magners League and then had a nightmare at the Ricoh against Wasps. With Dougie [Howlett] arriving and Ian Dowling playing so well, there was no way back in and it was tough watching the lads win the Heineken Cup in May, part of it and yet not part of it.

"This season it's even harder because you have Baz [Barry Murphy] back and playing well and Keith Earls too," he added.

"Keith is something special, a pure ball player with speed and an awesome turn of foot. I'm not just saying it because it's where I play but I think he's too good to play on the wing. He has a great attitude as well which is easy to see why with his father [legendary former Young Munster flanker Ger] behind him. He's a great kid."

Munster coach, Tony McGahan, is another Earls admirer and Horgan, while grateful to the Australian's predecessor Kidney, is enjoying the new regime.

"Tony has a different approach to Kidney, he has big shoes to fill but he's his own man. Some of us would have had Deccie for eight or nine years so there is an inevitable element of freshness.

"Laurie Fisher is fitting in well too with the forwards although they give him a ferocious slagging, as is the norm around here, but the guy knows his stuff and his experience of the ELVs is a big help."

Munster kick-off their Magners League campaign tomorrow evening in Edinburgh and Horgan says they are anxious to improve their performance in competition and not just reserve their best for Europe.

"I think all the lads would admit that we haven't performed in the Magners League. While we always find our focus for the Cup, I think fellahs found it hard to pick themselves up for the League games. The international players would be away and you find yourself travelling to low key matches in Newport or Swansea or wherever. We have the Irish guys from the start this season and we're determined to do ourselves justice."

And, as much as there is a collective will, Horgan is on a personal mission over the few months.

"I've been around a long time, from a different era when myself and Rags [John Kelly] started on part-time contracts worth around seven grand, but I'm not done yet and I'm feeling good right now. It's the most motivated I have been in a long time. I know I could be gone by December and I have to impress people to avoid that. Now it's up to me."

[hewtwit]

Good on horgan for giving it a crack. what is the deal with carney these days?? he's listed in their magners squad but you never hear a word from him or about him. Did he play in the warm up games??

[ruck]

Good on horgan for giving it a crack. what is the deal with carney these days?? he's listed in their magners squad but you never hear a word from him or about him. Did he play in the warm up games??

He got some gametime against the States alright. He hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since his arrival. Most reports indicate that he's not very popular amongst squad or management, due to his attitude.

[Donny B.]

Good on horgan for giving it a crack. what is the deal with carney these days?? he's listed in their magners squad but you never hear a word from him or about him. Did he play in the warm up games??

He got some gametime against the States alright. He hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since his arrival. Most reports indicate that he's not very popular amongst squad or management, due to his attitude.

It's a wonder why he was kept around exactly. Wouldn't be surprised if he went back to Rugby League.

Hurley looks a decent prospect, the fielding can be worked on, and is often a confidence thing, look at Rob's improvement in 18 months. However I would be slightly more concerned about his defense. He looked a little flat-footed a couple of times in the Churchill Cup. In particular, the English winger went round him like he wasn't there.

[Mauler]

Good on horgan for giving it a crack. what is the deal with carney these days?? he's listed in their magners squad but you never hear a word from him or about him. Did he play in the warm up games??

He got some gametime against the States alright. He hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since his arrival. Most reports indicate that he's not very popular amongst squad or management, due to his attitude.

I’m so surprised that Carney has not worked out. I saw him in one of his first games for you, against the Hairsprays I think and he was special that night. He was such a brilliant League player, I would have expected him to have done pretty well in Union. I guess its gotta be hard going from superstar in NRL one day and then not making the match day 22 the next.

As for the Slug, if I can’t call him fat anymore, I presume we can still call him the slowest winger ever to have played for Ireland?

[tones]

I'd say unless we have injuries between now and Christmas, we're unlikely to see Horgan in a Munster jersey again. His contract expires in December.
He's lost over a stone in the summer, so calling him "Fat b$&%@#d" may not be relevant anymore.

Its all porportionate!

[[Jackass]]

No big surprises and good to see. It would be a farce to keep Hurley in that team as he is utterly sh*te.

What a load of sh!t. You admit that you've barely seen him play, yet you decide it's ok to say that he's utter sh!t. You are an idiot.
He's lacking confidence under the high ball, all other aspects of his game are fine. But you are probably one of these people who takes glee from calling anybody playing for Munster sh!t.

lol. No I'm not an idiot, all I'm saying is I've seen the guy play about 5 or 6 times and he has been complete muck every time. I'm not saying he wont get better, but it would be a farce to have him in the team when Ealrs is already chomping at the bit to be in there. It's about playing your best players. Let Dowling and Hurley argue over the last spot, but have your best 14 on the team sheet first. As someone said, an inability to catch a ball is a pretty focking big problem to have for your full-back.

[Cossax]

Hurley has one real weakness in his game and you're calling him utterly shite.

Unfortunately its a fairly focking important one for a full back!

As it happens, I don't subscribe to the theory that hes weak under the high ball. He looks like a guy with a case of the yips, it'll pass.

Oh, I know but the theory seems to be that since he can't seem to catch the ball, he may aswell just give up. The fact that he has a lot going for him otherwise is irrelevant. Shur, when did a young Irish full back ever improve a vital part of his game to become a VG full back?

A complete and total misrepresentation of what was said on the thread.
He's poor under the high-ball and he's a FB, it's a major issue. Until he demonstrates more proficiency (AIL/in training) then it's hard to see why Munster should stick with him when there are other options.