Richie McCaw

[berniemac67]

It was a mistake, these things happen, nobody's perfect. He wasn't paying attention (during a stoppage) and missed it. The foot in play thing is rarely called and is the remit of the touch judge.

I don't get why people don't blame the Welsh for cheating rather than the ref for failing to catch them.

Quite so, both the hooker and receiver know the laws of the game - it was all rather a mess, including our non existent defense who were caught out by cheating welsh and cr@p officials. It did cost us the game, but there was time for us to still win the game but we failed to, and whilst it was a turning point in the game, we still could have rectified it by scoring more...!

i'm with you on this one. defence was appalling. we are well able and prepared to chase the length of the field to stop a quick throw being taken in their 22 but we can't do something similar when we're called back because it went in on the full? terrible

plus, the basics rule taught to all who play is to keep going until you hear the whistle. if the ref doesn't stop you then keep on going ... in other words never expect the officials to catch everything (or necessarily know the rules of the game).

i still almost cry when i watch that damn try, almost as bad as rougerie running over d'arcy two moments away from a slam without even playing well.

[combatlogo]

No he missed the fact that two Irish players being there for a lineout meant a quick lineout should not have been allowed. And that the hooker took the throw while on the field. Look at it again, it was clear as day. How was that "following the laws of the game"?

And once again, it's not a question of asking for the captain's "advice" or "opinion" it's simply a case of listening for a second to what their concerns are rather than just waving them away. You can shite on all you want about how refs cannot consult with captains, but in reality they do it all the time. Again, it's the difference between knowing the laws and knowing how the game actually works.

You can make all the excuses you want for him, Kaplan screwed up badly on this one.

2 Irish players were there but not two Welsh so no line out had been formed. That said, no ref should allow a quick throw when the opposition have two players at the line of touch. It was also taken from the wrong spot for a qucik throw, should have been between the Welsh goalline and where it went into touch. He was just making a stick for his own back by letting a quick throw take place in such a congested area. That said, how Allen let it go simply defies belief.

I'd tend to agree with BF, he shouldn't have had a conversation with BOD but you're equally right in saying he should have twigged something was up from the Irish reaction.

[TerenureJim]

I think if Kaplan had of stopped taken a breath, asked the TMO "is there any reason I cannot award this try" and then applied a bit of common sense by realising that it couldn't have been the same ball seriously he was watching the play and must have thought it wasn't the same ball and then fobbed off the decision on the linesman.

[blues_fan]

And once again, it's not a question of asking for the captain's "advice" or "opinion" it's simply a case of listening for a second to what their concerns are rather than just waving them away. You can shite on all you want about how refs cannot consult with captains, but in reality they do it all the time. Again, it's the difference between knowing the laws and knowing how the game actually works.

Why bother writing the laws down, if we can just run the game according to Donny

You are confusing game management with decision making. This was a time for a decision to be made, and players are to never be involved. Ever. Like I say, read the laws. Kaplan acted within the laws and to do what you are advocating for would be outside them.I guess this is a point of fact we will never agree on.

I think if Kaplan had of stopped taken a breath, asked the TMO "is there any reason I cannot award this try" and then applied a bit of common sense by realising that it couldn't have been the same ball seriously he was watching the play and must have thought it wasn't the same ball and then fobbed off the decision on the linesman.

Wouldn't help matters at all, because the TMO has no jurisdiction where the fault occurred. All he would tell Kaps is that the try was legal in his jurisdiction.

[TerenureJim]

And once again, it's not a question of asking for the captain's "advice" or "opinion" it's simply a case of listening for a second to what their concerns are rather than just waving them away. You can shite on all you want about how refs cannot consult with captains, but in reality they do it all the time. Again, it's the difference between knowing the laws and knowing how the game actually works.

Why bother writing the laws down, if we can just run the game according to Donny

You are confusing game management with decision making. This was a time for a decision to be made, and players are to never be involved. Ever. Like I say, read the laws. Kaplan acted within the laws and to do what you are advocating for would be outside them.I guess this is a point of fact we will never agree on.

I think if Kaplan had of stopped taken a breath, asked the TMO "is there any reason I cannot award this try" and then applied a bit of common sense by realising that it couldn't have been the same ball seriously he was watching the play and must have thought it wasn't the same ball and then fobbed off the decision on the linesman.

Wouldn't help matters at all, because the TMO has no jurisdiction where the fault occurred. All he would tell Kaps is that the try was legal in his jurisdiction.

I know it's outside his jurisdiction but it would have bought Kaplan time to use his common sense on this one and figure a way not to ruin the game.

[combatlogo]

What time did he need? It's either a try or go back for the full line-out.

[Donny B.]

And once again, it's not a question of asking for the captain's "advice" or "opinion" it's simply a case of listening for a second to what their concerns are rather than just waving them away. You can shite on all you want about how refs cannot consult with captains, but in reality they do it all the time. Again, it's the difference between knowing the laws and knowing how the game actually works.

Why bother writing the laws down, if we can just run the game according to Donny

You are confusing game management with decision making. This was a time for a decision to be made, and players are to never be involved. Ever. Like I say, read the laws. Kaplan acted within the laws and to do what you are advocating for would be outside them.I guess this is a point of fact we will never agree on.

No, just looking for a little common sense, but again that's not something we'll ever agree on. Seems Kaplan only read that law cause he hasn't a clue about the rest of them, especially the ones regarding how and when quick lineouts can be taken.

[Hickiefan]

Quality of SA reffing underlined:

http://bit.ly/kUngBZ

[combatlogo]

Quality of SA reffing underlined:

http://bit.ly/kUngBZ

Was watching that game on Friday and couldn't believe the AR even flagged it...piss poor communication process between the two of them, you'd wonder if these guys even do a team of 3 talk before the game.

[Donny B.]

Quality of SA reffing underlined:

http://bit.ly/kUngBZ

Was watching that game on Friday and couldn't believe the AR even flagged it...piss poor communication process between the two of them, you'd wonder if these guys even do a team of 3 talk before the game.

Yeah that touch judge was so clueless, he would fit in perfectly in the Magners League

[was never late ref]

New Zealand to win the WC for the first time , It would appear that with Mr Paddy O Brien picking the refs , the New Zealand board sorting out the fixtures to suit the pacific Islanders ,Richie MaCaw beyond the laws of rucking ! is there even a point in sending a team to this WC ?

and before the supporters of the IRB favourites , try to correct me on New Zealand winning the WC in 87 , Micheal Jones who scored the first try and made the second try against France in the 87 final , was capped by Western Samoa the previous year .

So if we just gave them this WC , would they then just go away ?

[baaba maal]

So you are telling me the only way to reply to my objection, is to further enlarge the conspiracy to encompass the whole IRB now? So then explain why it is only the internet posters who can see this and why every other Union isn't in active revolt against the IRB/NZRU nexus, for perpetuating such an unfair system? Will you not have to enlarge the conspiracy even further? Won't it get to a point where the conspiracy is so further enlarged, that only a few hardy souls such as yourselves are the only ones not involved? Don't you think by that time, a better and simpler explanation may in fact be more accurate?

Nah, it makes far more sense to believe that everybody at an official level in every International Board member in the world is involved in a conspiracy to create a regulatory environment that will suit the very small not particularly well off market that is New Zealand than it does to come to the conclusion that Richie McCaw and his team mates are actually quite good.

I've been thinking about this for a while. So, here are a couple of points:
1. I don't believe Paddy O'Brien or the IRB have a vast global conspiracy in place for the benefit of NZ.
2. However, I do believe the IRB have a blindspot when it comes to some aspects of NZ and this allows the possiblilty of doubt to arise in peoples' minds. Specifically, I am talking about the haka. I'm sure it has been discussed to death elswhere, but a couple of salient points-

The timing of the haka after the national anthems is a clear advantage to the All Blacks (how much of an advantage is debatable, but the strop they threw when Wales threatened to reverse the anthem/haka sequence spoke volumes about the advantage they believe it confers).

The neutering of opposition responses to the haka is a disgraceful development in the game. Many of you will be aware that the Wallaroos (Australian womens rugby team) were fined for collectively approaching the haka recently and that this is now part of IRB policy throughout the game http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union ... 153c9.html. This is frankly sickening- one team is allowed to issue a challenge, but the other team cannot respond as they see fit. Now the key question is- if the Australians (or anyone else) did the same thing while the Tongans were doing their Sipi Tau, or the Samoans with their Manu Siva Tau (both haka type challenges), would the IRB issue fines? Of course not.

This is all about Brand All Black being "protected" by the IRB- the haka being the embodiment of the team most people in the world know about, even people who don't follow rugby.

I believe the IRB is on shaky ground when it adopts this kind of protectionism- it certainly allows the neutral to believe that some national teams are more important than others. When the likes of McCaw then gets away (brilliantly) with outrageous lawbreaking, the moral authority of the IRB as the regulator of the game is compromised in my opinion.

As an aside, growing up, I used to love the haka- now I look at it like it is some corporate sponsored "entertainment" that delays the kick off. Sad really. People should also remember that the haka that is done now is a completely different beast to previous years. Check out this comedy gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emJyEa4z ... re=related

How could you compete against such a stirring war dance

[TerenureJim]

I am talking about the haka. .....The neutering of opposition responses to the haka is a disgraceful development in the game.........How could you compete against such a stirring war dance

The only way to compete aganst the Haka is to head down the far end of the field and kick a ball around, let them have their stretch/dance/warm up and just keep doing your own thing and not be arsed about it, seemed to work for this lad....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7SveKIj ... re=related

[artaneboy]

As an aside, growing up, I used to love the haka- now I look at it like it is some corporate sponsored "entertainment" that delays the kick off. Sad really. People should also remember that the haka that is done now is a completely different beast to previous years. Check out this comedy gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emJyEa4z ... re=related

How could you compete against such a stirring war dance

Yeah, that one looks more like the hokey-cokey!

I have to agree with the general point here, the haka has become an occasion where the opposition is supposed to stand and take a - let's face it, provocative challenge, and is condemned if they either respond to it in kind or refuse to engage. Remember BOD was supposed to have been disrespectful in his grass throwing response just before he was speared out of the 2005 Lions tour.

Campo was right - totally ignore it.

[artaneboy]

Sorry, double post!

[Oldschool]

So you are telling me the only way to reply to my objection, is to further enlarge the conspiracy to encompass the whole IRB now? So then explain why it is only the internet posters who can see this and why every other Union isn't in active revolt against the IRB/NZRU nexus, for perpetuating such an unfair system? Will you not have to enlarge the conspiracy even further? Won't it get to a point where the conspiracy is so further enlarged, that only a few hardy souls such as yourselves are the only ones not involved? Don't you think by that time, a better and simpler explanation may in fact be more accurate?

Nah, it makes far more sense to believe that everybody at an official level in every International Board member in the world is involved in a conspiracy to create a regulatory environment that will suit the very small not particularly well off market that is New Zealand than it does to come to the conclusion that Richie McCaw and his team mates are actually quite good.

Have to say most posters here, are very poor on conspiracy theory.
Dave is close, but he's only seeing part of the picture.
The bit Dave left out or assumed we could figure out for ourselves is that for NZ to receive the preferential treatment that they do, they will never be allowed win another WC.
(or certainly allowed win it only very occasionally - imagine how boring it would be if the best team (ie NZ) were to win it every time)
So far this policy has worked very well, and it has been possible for POB, to develop France as NZ's bogie team and ensure that they inevitably meet NZ at some stage.
The odd dose of food poisoning, along the way, has also helped and has been a useful distraction in providing a bit of cover for the conspiracy.

[Oldschool]

It was a mistake, these things happen, nobody's perfect. He wasn't paying attention (during a stoppage) and missed it. The foot in play thing is rarely called and is the remit of the touch judge.

I don't get why people don't blame the Welsh for cheating rather than the ref for failing to catch them.

Quite so, both the hooker and receiver know the laws of the game - it was all rather a mess, including our non existent defense who were caught out by cheating welsh and cr@p officials. It did cost us the game, but there was time for us to still win the game but we failed to, and whilst it was a turning point in the game, we still could have rectified it by scoring more...!

Well just ask Paddy Wallace!!

In fairness our defence had relaxed because they knew the ball had gone into the crowd and that a quick throw couldn't be taken. Unfortunately, they knew the laws better than the ref and his dipsh*t touch judge. A lesson to be learned I suppose, never trust the officials to be competent.

And you've hit the nail on head - The real lesson to be learned is people make mistakes, so try to minimise their impact.

[The Doc]

I am talking about the haka. .....The neutering of opposition responses to the haka is a disgraceful development in the game.........How could you compete against such a stirring war dance

The only way to compete aganst the Haka is to head down the far end of the field and kick a ball around, let them have their stretch/dance/warm up and just keep doing your own thing and not be arsed about it, seemed to work for this lad....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7SveKIj ... re=related

I may have misheard but I think that option has also been ruled out by the IRB. I think the requirement is now to line up "respectfully" or something like that.

As I said - I may have misheard

[TerenureJim]

I may have misheard but I think that option has also been ruled out by the IRB. I think the requirement is now to line up "respectfully" or something like that.

As I said - I may have misheard

What so if Sexton heads off and starts kicking practice drop goals while the lads are doing their dance the respectful police will get the batons out? It's such nonsense, I like the haka but don't agree with just having to take it rather then respond in whatever way you please. The IRB shouldn't do this lark, we'll loose days & events like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fg4FyhZ-Kg

[The Doc]

I may have misheard but I think that option has also been ruled out by the IRB. I think the requirement is now to line up "respectfully" or something like that.

As I said - I may have misheard

What so if Sexton heads off and starts kicking practice drop goals while the lads are doing their dance the respectful police will get the batons out? It's such nonsense, I like the haka but don't agree with just having to take it rather then respond in whatever way you please. The IRB shouldn't do this lark, we'll loose days & events like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fg4FyhZ-Kg

As I understand it - if Sexton (or the team) choose to go down the other end of the pitch and throw a ball around during the Haka, the IRFU would face sanctions after the game - I would guess a fine or something. It has been elevated to the status of an anthem almost i.e. the IRFU would face sanctions if the team didn't line up and respect the anthems.

Personally I think it's nuts - a little like people telling you to "sush" when someone is singing in the pub.... f%~k off this is a pub and if they were good enough I wouldn't need to be told to sush. Likewise - if NZ deserved the respect they would get it (as used be the case) - but this demanding respect is pure nonsense