Heineken Cup: "Expanding the brand". Discuss.

[Made Of Ale]

I was surprised to see people weren't discussing the issues raised in this article a bit more:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 11772.html

(If link doesn't work - ERC CEO discussing "expanding the brand" to elsewhere in the world i.e. London Irish playing in Boston is a good thing.)

What do people think of this? From the sentiments expressed on the Sarries/ SA game board I suspect we're mostly against. Personally this article sent shivers down my spine but maybe I'm not open-minded enough. If we ended up being the Man United of rugby, would this be a good thing? Does the prospect of Leinster landing in Tokyo to loads of screaming fans with Sean O' Brien jerseys excite you? It makes me feel a bit ill but I might be a bit old. Please discuss.

[Donny B.]

If they try to move one of our games out of the province I propose forming a human chain at the airport!

[Vamos los azules]

If they try to move one of our games out of the province I propose forming a human chain at the airport!

I support this idea

If it did happen, it could tip the balance for me as to whether to renew the season ticket or not though. Unless you're in the Anglesea or the Grandstand you're probably financially better off and location wise in the Aviva definitely better off buying tickets as you go these days, particularly if you then come up against a home match up being in another country.

[mikerob]

I wouldn't mind seeing a final outside the same-old, same-old stadia. Italy has never hosted a final although I think that is more to do with the Italians not putting in a good proposal for hosting the final, rather than the ERC not wanting to give it to them.

Somewhere like Barcelona could also be a possible venue for a final.

Taking pool stages outside of Europe however is just a kick in the teeth for fans of the teams.

[mtleinster]

I think it is worse for the likes of Sarries, who do not have a record of getting of getting out of the group stages, therefore the supporters only get 2 home games; last year I watched 5 home /7 total Heineken cup games, with very little travel needed.

i would totally support one of our away games being played in a neutral venue

[jezzer]

I am absolutely in favour of Leinster games being played away from home to drum up more support...

Athlone, Wexford, Portlaois, Navan.....

[tigerburnie]

This is being driven by the likes of saracens and wasps,who don't have enough home fans,so are desperate for money to prevent them going under.Personaly I think it stinks and ,as has been said,is a kick in the teeth for the fans.Games have already been played or planned by some of these clubs in the likes of South Africa and Dubai,how does that help european rugby?
If they are serious about raising the profile of the tournament,then it's in europe that it should happen,away trip to Moscow or Helsinki in January anyone?

[Hippo]

I was surprised to see people weren't discussing the issues raised in this article a bit more:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 11772.html

(What do people think of this? From the sentiments expressed on the Sarries/ SA game board I suspect we're mostly against. Personally this article sent shivers down my spine but maybe I'm not open-minded enough. If we ended up being the Man United of rugby, would this be a good thing? Does the prospect of Leinster landing in Tokyo to loads of screaming fans with Sean O' Brien jerseys excite you? It makes me feel a bit ill but I might be a bit old. Please discuss.

I missed this when it appeared. I can see the value of occasionally playing HEC games in non-traditional venues as per Biarritz, and I dream of a day when there's a genuine two-tier European International Test tournament (with promotion and relegation!), but the idea of exporting domestic matches to the US or SA is just b*%&!cks. As Tigerburnie says above, the Sararcens nonsense is purely financially-driven as South Africa hardly represents virgin country for rugby. Why can't they just expand slowly and organically, rather than trying to develop some Bill Cullen-style Apprentice idea whereby a couple of teams of rugby 'galacticos' will turn up and play a HEC game in your non-rugby country?

Fcukwits.

[Mauler]

Interesting Aussie Rugby viewpoint on their expansion into Asia.


AUSTRALIA'S Super Rugby teams are looking to join the push into Asia by playing pre-season games in cities such as Hong Kong and Singapore.
The Wallabies have played Bledisloe Cup Tests against the All Blacks in Hong Kong and Tokyo over the past four years to raise revenue and promote the game.

The Melbourne Rebels have now agreed to play pre-season trial matches with the Crusaders for the next

three years, while the Brumbies and NSW Waratahs are also considering playing games in Asia.

"We have signed a contract with a Singapore promoter to play Super Rugby trial matches with the Crusaders," Rebels chief executive Steve Boland said.

"It's only 50-50 that we will pull it off for 2012, but we will definitely be there in 2013 and 2014.

"Asia is an important market. We are all over it like a rash. It's great to have a team like the Crusaders share our vision."

...There is a strong view that Asian rugby has tremendous potential for growth and Australian teams want to be part of the boom.

Japan will host the 2019 World Cup and rugby sevens will be admitted to the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro in 2016.

"Super Rugby gets very good television coverage up there," Boland said.

"There is a great expatriate market in Singapore, which has six and a half thousand registered players.

"If we have a connection with Singapore and the Rebels become the Super Rugby team of choice, that will be fantastic."

Brumbies chief executive Andrew Fagan revealed the two-time champions were also interested in playing in Asia.

"In the past we have been close to doing it in the pre-season and post-season, but the timing hasn't been right for us or the opposition. It's something we are keen to explore. There is a very strong rugby audience in Asia.

"It's a good opportunity to develop your brand. We play an international sport, not just a national sport. The supporter base extends beyond Australia.

"It's good for your corporate partners and to develop rugby in those regions as well. Sometimes there are commercial benefits as well."

Waratahs chief executive Jason Allen, who was in Hong Kong last week for business meetings, said NSW would consider playing games in Asia.

"I wouldn't rule it out, but it's not our primary focus at the moment," Allen said.

The Queensland Reds could see the benefits of playing in Asia, but don't have immediate plans.

"Always interested in extending the brand of rugby and reputation of the Reds," Reds chief executive Jim Carmichael said. "Needs a fair amount of consideration as (it's a) very long season and tricky to play northern hemisphere or Asian teams without careful planning and financial and strategic modelling."

With Perth's geographic proximity to Asia, it would make sense for the Western Force to explore opportunities in the region.

The Force has already established a connection with Japanese club Toshiba following the loan of New Zealand five-eighth David Hill last year and an exchange of coaching ideas.

With SANZAR looking to admit one or two Japanese teams into an expanded Super Rugby competition in the future, the Asian connection will only grow stronger.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 6187078727

[Peg Leg]

Interesting Aussie Rugby viewpoint on their expansion into Asia...............
...............With SANZAR looking to admit one or two Japanese teams into an expanded Super Rugby competition in the future, the Asian connection will only grow stronger.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 6187078727

That is Rugby as a brand expansion, this shite with Sarries is club brand expansion and serves no purpose for the game itself.

[West Brit]

Interesting Aussie Rugby viewpoint on their expansion into Asia...............
...............With SANZAR looking to admit one or two Japanese teams into an expanded Super Rugby competition in the future, the Asian connection will only grow stronger.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 6187078727

That is Rugby as a brand expansion, this shite with Sarries is club brand expansion and serves no purpose for the game itself.

Exactly. In Australia it's about growing the game in Asia in the long-term (at least partly to improve their own commercial postion no doubt, but that will only be sustainable if rugby grows in Asia, so it's a win-win). With Biarritz it's about expanding their base into the whole of Catalunya, similar to Leinster expanding their base in the other counties. It shows Biarritz to be proud Catalans and I think shows the club in a very positive light.

This Sarries stuff is about money, and I think is a poor reflection on their club.

[Mauler]

Interesting Aussie Rugby viewpoint on their expansion into Asia...............
...............With SANZAR looking to admit one or two Japanese teams into an expanded Super Rugby competition in the future, the Asian connection will only grow stronger.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 6187078727

That is Rugby as a brand expansion, this shite with Sarries is club brand expansion and serves no purpose for the game itself.

Exactly. In Australia it's about growing the game in Asia in the long-term (at least partly to improve their own commercial postion no doubt, but that will only be sustainable if rugby grows in Asia, so it's a win-win). With Biarritz it's about expanding their base into the whole of Catalunya, similar to Leinster expanding their base in the other counties. It shows Biarritz to be proud Catalans and I think shows the club in a very positive light.

This Sarries stuff is about money, and I think is a poor reflection on their club.

The Aussies have always been way ahead of the other rugby playing countries, due to the necessity of having to compete with other more popular sports (Cricket, NRL, AFL) in marketing and promoting our sport. In the early '90s they managed to hold on to Campo, Horan, Little, Ofahengaue, & Noddy Lynagh et al by hook or by crook, turning a blind eye to them being paid while playing in Italy for six months of the season, working with sponsors of the ARU to provide employment for their International players, with necessary leave while they were on tour / training, arranging for private sponsorship deals etc. etc.

Even think back to RWC'03, which was supposed to be jointly held between NZ & Australia. NZ had to withdraw because they could not provide 'clean' stadiums free of advertising, while Australia hosted what turned out to be a brilliantly organised and extremely well supported tournament.

The ERC should encourage big games (Semi Finals / Finals) to be played in Brussels, Rome / Milan, Barcelona, even Georgia to grow the popularity of the sport within countries which would benefit from the boost hosting such games would bring.

Finally, not being a pedantic, but Biarritz is in the Basque country - but I take your point WB.

[West Brit]

Finally, not being a pedantic, but Biarritz is in the Basque country - but I take your point WB.

Whoops, was thinking of Perpignan playing in Barcelona. Please don't tell Harinordoquy I called him a Catalan instead of a Basque or he could track me down and kick my ar$e!

[Dave Cahill]

Finally, not being a pedantic

To be pedantic, one cannot be a pedantic, one is a pedant.

[brummie-leinster-man]

I think Leinster should play HEC matches in Birmingham!

[meinster]

To be pedantic, one cannot be a pedantic, one is a pedant.

Quality!!

[TerenureJim]

Have to agree with earlier posts re staging of a final outside of a traditional venue being the best way to grow the brand, get the carnival atmosphere of the finals weekend with the HEC and Amlin being held in accesssable cities where rugby could find a fertile ground to gain new admirers say Milan, Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, Brussels, Amsterdam, Manchester. There are plenty of fantastic potential grounds that could be used to help spread and develop the profile of the game and the competitions and I'm sure there would be few objections from fans at travelling to any of the foregoing destinations for a final.

Also if you've a reluctant Mrs. it might be easier to sell Milan as opposed to Cardiff for a weekend!

[Dave Cahill]

Have to agree with earlier posts re staging of a final outside of a traditional venue being the best way to grow the brand, get the carnival atmosphere of the finals weekend with the HEC and Amlin being held in accesssable cities where rugby could find a fertile ground to gain new admirers say Milan, Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, Brussels, Amsterdam, Manchester. There are plenty of fantastic potential grounds that could be used to help spread and develop the profile of the game and the competitions and I'm sure there would be few objections from fans at travelling to any of the foregoing destinations for a final.

Also if you've a reluctant Mrs. it might be easier to sell Milan as opposed to Cardiff for a weekend!

It might grow the brand, but it doesn't grow the game, which is far more important. All holding a final in a city does is make residents of that city aware that there is a sport called rugby, if they weren't before, and this sport that they've never previously heard of or seen or care one iota about is responsible for them not being able to do their shopping on a saturday afternoon because of some match that they can't watch anyway.

This is a classic load shoot aim solution. If you want to 'grow the brand' you develop the game in the country, then when it reaches a certain critical mass in terms of participation and awareness, you give them a marquee match to push the development over the line. Its not a matter of the ERC rocking up to a committee meeting and deciding that they fancy going on the lash in Nyhavn.

[Peg Leg]

Have to agree with earlier posts re staging of a final outside of a traditional venue being the best way to grow the brand, get the carnival atmosphere of the finals weekend with the HEC and Amlin being held in accesssable cities where rugby could find a fertile ground to gain new admirers say Milan, Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, Brussels, Amsterdam, Manchester. There are plenty of fantastic potential grounds that could be used to help spread and develop the profile of the game and the competitions and I'm sure there would be few objections from fans at travelling to any of the foregoing destinations for a final.

Also if you've a reluctant Mrs. it might be easier to sell Milan as opposed to Cardiff for a weekend!

It might grow the brand, but it doesn't grow the game, which is far more important. All holding a final in a city does is make residents of that city aware that there is a sport called rugby, if they weren't before, and this sport that they've never previously heard of or seen or care one iota about is responsible for them not being able to do their shopping on a saturday afternoon because of some match that they can't watch anyway.

This is a classic load shoot aim solution. If you want to 'grow the brand' you develop the game in the country, then when it reaches a certain critical mass in terms of participation and awareness, you give them a marquee match to push the development over the line. Its not a matter of the ERC rocking up to a committee meeting and deciding that they fancy going on the lash in Nyhavn.

This! Why would you attempt to head off to assimilate the foreigners before you had the rule over your own?
Good to see someone getting the grasp with the local pronunciation of Navan.

[West Brit]

Have to agree with earlier posts re staging of a final outside of a traditional venue being the best way to grow the brand, get the carnival atmosphere of the finals weekend with the HEC and Amlin being held in accesssable cities where rugby could find a fertile ground to gain new admirers say Milan, Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, Brussels, Amsterdam, Manchester. There are plenty of fantastic potential grounds that could be used to help spread and develop the profile of the game and the competitions and I'm sure there would be few objections from fans at travelling to any of the foregoing destinations for a final.

Also if you've a reluctant Mrs. it might be easier to sell Milan as opposed to Cardiff for a weekend!

It might grow the brand, but it doesn't grow the game, which is far more important. All holding a final in a city does is make residents of that city aware that there is a sport called rugby, if they weren't before, and this sport that they've never previously heard of or seen or care one iota about is responsible for them not being able to do their shopping on a saturday afternoon because of some match that they can't watch anyway.

This is a classic load shoot aim solution. If you want to 'grow the brand' you develop the game in the country, then when it reaches a certain critical mass in terms of participation and awareness, you give them a marquee match to push the development over the line. Its not a matter of the ERC rocking up to a committee meeting and deciding that they fancy going on the lash in Nyhavn.

I would tend to agree, although I think that Italy is fast reaching that critical mass and a H Cup final in Milan or Rome could very well push things over the line. I think the carnival atmosphere at these things alone could be enough to convince Italian mothers that rugby could be the game for their precious sons.