Munster Thread 2012-2013

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ceemec
Shane Jennings
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by ceemec »

bgclaw wrote:If age the measure then
boss/reddan 32
darcy 32
driscoll 33
heaslip 30
nacewa 30
jennings 31
cullen 34
ross 32
Couple of players with alot miles on the clock.
Firstly, Heaslip is 28 and Jennings won't be in the team more than likely. I personally don't worry about the likes or Ross or Nacewa either who are in their prime and regularly play 80 minutes with no slowing down. Cullen may not be playing either. Regardless, the point was about packs ageing and will struggle with a high tempo game. Leinster's starting pack will have the ages: 24, 26, 32, 26, AN Other, 28, 25 and 28. The pack Clermont had in last year's semi final will, this year, be: 35 (retired), 28, 29, 34, 36, 34, 23 and 33 with only one forward signed in the off season. That's where I feel the difference will lie even allowing for others coming in. There's very little evidence to back up the opinion that Clermont will win in Dublin. They might well do, now, but it would be a surprise result.

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johng
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by johng »

bgclaw wrote: I dont care if leinster make it out of their group or not it makes no difference to me this is only my opinion.
I care if Munster make it out of their group. I hope they do.

I'll tell yah one thing though. Leinster would waltz out of Munster's group with a bout of food poisoning.

Not sure the reverse is true.

I hope they both get out.

I remember bringing a Munster mate of mine to the 18 nil game in the RDS in Oct 08. He told me that Leinster were like Chelsea and were trying to buy their way to the HC We had just brought in Rocky, Isa and CJ (who was a wc winning TH at the time)

I said "Maybe this year we can swap and you can have the cider and we will have the Lager"

He said.

"I think we'll have them both this year"

He was so convinced right up to Croker, and even afterwards he thought we just "got lucky" and "normal service" would soon be restored.

Point I am getting at is, Leinster's success can't last forever and Munster will pass them again............. Just don't think it will be this year. (Where's that fingers crossed icon)

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by bgclaw »

johng wrote:
bgclaw wrote: I dont care if leinster make it out of their group or not it makes no difference to me this is only my opinion.
I care if Munster make it out of their group. I hope they do. Iits not that i want leinster to get knocked out i just think they will

I'll tell yah one thing though. Leinster would waltz out of Munster's group with a bout of food poisoning.the your group is easier than ours willy waving contest

Not sure the reverse is true. time will tell

I hope they both get out.so do i but there is a fair chance none of the above will

I remember bringing a Munster mate of mine to the 18 nil game in the RDS in Oct 08. He told me that Leinster were like Chelsea and were trying to buy their way to the HC We had just brought in Rocky, Isa and CJ (who was a wc winning TH at the time) irrelevent

I said "Maybe this year we can swap and you can have the cider and we will have the Lager"munster won the magners your mate was 50% right.

He said.

"I think we'll have them both this year" silly him

He was so convinced right up to Croker, and even afterwards he thought we just "got lucky" and "normal service" would soon be restored.again silly him

Point I am getting at is, Leinster's success can't last forever and Munster will pass them again............. Just don't think it will be this year. (Where's that fingers crossed icon)
like i said im not trying to put leinster down imo i think clermont will beat them home and away,THE 7TH AND 8TH QUALIFIERS will come from the groups with the italians(this is only an opinion could quiet possibly be totally wrong its only september after all )

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ceemec
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by ceemec »

BGC, can you bold your comments that are embedded within a quote? Makes it very awkward to follow what's being said when it all appears the same.

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by bgclaw »

ceemec wrote:BGC, can you bold your comments that are embedded within a quote? Makes it very awkward to follow what's being said when it all appears the same.
Tried to but it did not work my apologies

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by bgclaw »

stringer and ROG starting against Dragons is penney feeling nostalgic.
For the subs woud be graet to see JJ replacing ROG, Earls to F/B and Keately to O/H .

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ronk
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by ronk »

Munster: I Keatley; D Howlett capt, K Earls, J Downey, S Zebo; R O'Gara, P Stringer; M Horan, M Sherry, BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan, B Holland; Dave O'Callaghan, N Ronan, P Butler. Replacements: D Varley, W du Preez, S Archer, D Foley, T O'Donnell, C Murray, D Barnes, JJ Hanrahan.

Curious that the announcement on the Munster site neglects to mention who, when, where they're playing.

This feels like a different system of rotation from the McGahan days. There's a lot of strength in that team

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by Apocrypha »

Trying out Keatley at FB is an odd one. Personally, I think it would have been better to start Earls there, and play Barnes at OC. Earls and Laulala should be in the starting 15 in the HEC, so given his adaptability that means Earls @15. Leave Zebo and LOD fight it out for the LW spot.

Can't really understand why we're starting BJB and DOC ahead of Archer and Foley. The pack is relatively strong enough, and given both will be starting the next 4 games (Os/D'Ladyz in Pro12 and Metro/Embra in Hec - 3 of which are away), this is quite a bit of an ask.

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ronk
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by ronk »

Apocrypha wrote:Trying out Keatley at FB is an odd one. Personally, I think it would have been better to start Earls there, and play Barnes at OC. Earls and Laulala should be in the starting 15 in the HEC, so given his adaptability that means Earls @15. Leave Zebo and LOD fight it out for the LW spot.

Can't really understand why we're starting BJB and DOC ahead of Archer and Foley. The pack is relatively strong enough, and given both will be starting the next 4 games (Os/D'Ladyz in Pro12 and Metro/Embra in Hec - 3 of which are away), this is quite a bit of an ask.
Any chance missed to put Earls in a 13 shirt would be an odd one. With Laulala out, it's a chance that he'd be very unhappy to miss.

Keatley at fullback is a good call. With Jones out for another while (AFAIK) he could be valuable up the pecking order and could even challenge to start. It gives O'Gara breathing room to try and learn the system and gets Keatley available as another option for the big games.

Nurturing the Keatley at 15 thing opens a lot of doors. It's a relatively specialist position so there can be other cover in a 23, it raises the option of starting Keatley and moving him to 15 when O'Gara comes on, or of adding to the kicking options. Hurley can move to the wing as necessary.

From a systems perspective, there can be changes if you have a 15 who can do different things coming into a backline, like stand at first receiver. This means that you can let your outhalf get sucked into the odd ruck without having to slow down play for a few phases. It also means that Munster will have the option of sticking O'Gara at fullback/wing off first-phase defensive positions.

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johng
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by johng »

bgclaw wrote:
ceemec wrote:BGC, can you bold your comments that are embedded within a quote? Makes it very awkward to follow what's being said when it all appears the same.
Tried to but it did not work I made a boll1x of it my apologies
Fixed :lol:

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johng
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by johng »

ronk wrote:Munster: I Keatley; D Howlett capt, K Earls, J Downey, S Zebo; R O'Gara, P Stringer; M Horan, M Sherry, BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan, B Holland; Dave O'Callaghan, N Ronan, P Butler. Replacements: D Varley, W du Preez, S Archer, D Foley, T O'Donnell, C Murray, D Barnes, JJ Hanrahan.

Curious that the announcement on the Munster site neglects to mention who, when, where they're playing.

This feels like a different system of rotation from the McGahan days. There's a lot of strength in that team
Yeah. A touch of the Joe Schmidts (Not rhyming slang) about it. Good sign

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by Mauler »

It is not my intention to start another Leinster v Munster sh!t fight ...
Last Sunday in the Sunday Independent, http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/j ... 30164.html
There was an extract from John Hayes book. One part of the article I found utterly amazing was when he mentioned the Munster itinerary for a typical week.

"Monday morning, a weights session with the Limerick-based lads in UL, about 90 minutes in total. The Cork-based players would do their weights session in Cork Institute of Technology. Lunch and then off to Mitchelstown for a full meeting of the squad. Mitchelstown was more or less a halfway house between Limerick and Cork, and in recent years a local hotel there was being used as a venue for squad meetings. The Monday meeting would be a review of the match at the weekend. Forwards would look at the performance of the set-piece, backs would look at various moves and patterns. Problems would be analysed, and we'd plan to address them in training that week.

Tuesdays the Cork boys would travel up to UL for a full day's work. We'd spend the morning indoors. The upcoming match would be previewed; we'd have information on the opposition. Forwards would have a lineout meeting and a scrum meeting; backs would have a meeting on the specific parts of their game. Lunch then, and out onto the pitch in the afternoon. The heavy work would be done Tuesday afternoons, practising defence and attack against live opposition; scrums, line-outs, tackling drills, defensive drills, breakdown drills.

Wednesday was a recovery day; you'd have a swimming pool session to alleviate the usual soreness, stiffness and bruising.

Thursday mornings the Limerick lads would travel to Cork. The forwards would finalise their lineout moves for that weekend and make sure everyone was up to speed on the calls. The backs would be wrapping up their stuff at a meeting too. Then a light session on the field for an hour or so, followed by lunch, and that would be it for the day.

Friday was travelling day if we had an away game, with a chartered flight from Shannon Airport to Cork Airport to pick up the lads there, or vice versa. Then on to England, France or wherever. Otherwise Friday was a full day off. Complete rest and plenty of water. Saturday you went into match mode. On Monday morning, repeat the process."


I find it unimaginable that one of the biggest & most successful rugby teams in world rugby doesn’t train together all the time and they essentially now have to split themselves over three locations, Cork Institute of Technology, University of Limerick & some hotel in Mitchelstown. Furthermore, when flying to away games they don't all travel from one airport but instead depart Shannon via Cork to wherever the game is. This seems such a duplication of overheads and expense, not to mention how the constant commute for each player must affect their recovery.

I can understand the historical background of having a base in both cities, but professional rugby has evolved into a multi-million euro business, where the difference between winning and losing is so small and the subsequent financial knock-on’s so significant.

I'm sure that the facilities in both locations are second to none as you would expect, surely it would be far better to have just one location equidistant from both Limerick & Cork as their training centre? But it is truly eye opening how politically narrow-minded rugby administration in Munster is.
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by ronk »

Professional players and they train 2 days a week, have one big gym session and a meeting halfway. I would have expected more, but meh.

One day travelling to training, one trip halfway for meetings. Feasible enough, but still a drain.

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by bgclaw »

ronk wrote:Professional players and they train 2 days a week, have one big gym session and a meeting halfway. I would have expected more, but meh.

One day travelling to training, one trip halfway for meetings. Feasible enough, but still a drain.
1 1/2 HOURS CORK TO LIMERICK OR VICE VERSA
Surely it takes longer for some leinster players to get to training from some of the celtic tiger dublin(MEATH,CAVAN KILKENNY :D ) suburbs.
Munster players on a few grand a week cribbing about an hours drive would be pathetic.

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Apocrypha
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by Apocrypha »

This situation is a well known shambles. Many ex-players and coaches have commented upon it (Big Jim/Dumper etc).

The word on the street is that we're moving to CIT long-term, which if nothing else will allow us to save on bullet-proof vests/cars... :lol:

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by bgclaw »

Apocrypha wrote:This situation is a well known shambles. Many ex-players and coaches have commented upon it (Big Jim/Dumper etc).

The word on the street is that we're moving to CIT long-term, which if nothing else will allow us to save on bullet-proof vests/cars... :lol:
Ignorance is bliss.

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by ceemec »

bgclaw wrote: 1 1/2 HOURS CORK TO LIMERICK OR VICE VERSA
Surely it takes longer for some leinster players to get to training from some of the celtic tiger dublin(MEATH,CAVAN KILKENNY :D ) suburbs.
Munster players on a few grand a week cribbing about an hours drive would be pathetic.
It's nothing to do with a 90 minute drive. It's about the impact it has on the training schedules and the ability that players have to train under the same routine and having similar input. Both Jim Williams and Shaun Payne spoke out against the ridiculousness of trying to run a pro team in such a manner upon their departures.

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munster#1
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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by munster#1 »

Ceemec can you post a link to their comments?

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by bgclaw »

ceemec wrote:
bgclaw wrote: 1 1/2 HOURS CORK TO LIMERICK OR VICE VERSA
Surely it takes longer for some leinster players to get to training from some of the celtic tiger dublin(MEATH,CAVAN KILKENNY :D ) suburbs.
Munster players on a few grand a week cribbing about an hours drive would be pathetic.
It's nothing to do with a 90 minute drive. It's about the impact it has on the training schedules and the ability that players have to train under the same routine and having similar input. Both Jim Williams and Shaun Payne spoke out against the ridiculousness of trying to run a pro team in such a manner upon their departures.
If you are getting paid a few grand a week and really only work 2 or 3 days a week i think that these pampered players can get out bed early and drive to work like everybody else.
These lads are young and at the peak of fitness ffs a drive 2 limk/cork twice a week wont hurt.
Its a crazy situation with 2 bases from a financial point of view but ive little sympathy for the players.
This chartered flight craic stopping off in cork or shannon is madness.
If Payne was all that bothered why did he not move to cork.
Munsters situation is unique its political willy waving contest between 2 bases.

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Re: Munster Thread 2012-2013

Post by Dave Cahill »

munster#1 wrote:Ceemec can you post a link to their comments?
Jim Williams comments were in an interview in the Sunday Independent printed on Sunday April 25 2004 - good luck finding that online! It was the same interview where he spoke about how far behind the Irish system was in the use of legal supplemenets
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