Munster Thread 2012-2013

[bgclaw]

Good win if too spectacular.
Butler was about the best on the field imo.
Zebo was excellent considering its his 1st game in 3 months,looks to have taken up where he left off last season.
Penney has options all over and should have a few very hard decisions to make.
Next 2 games should tell munster where they stand but progress is being made week on week.
Roll on the Ospreys and your good selves.

[BlueBlue]

Good win if too spectacular.
Butler was about the best on the field imo.
Zebo was excellent considering its his 1st game in 3 months,looks to have taken up where he left off last season.
Penney has options all over and should have a few very hard decisions to make.
Next 2 games should tell munster where they stand but progress is being made week on week.
Roll on the Ospreys and your good selves.

I agree, very good progress being made by Penny. I think that just shows how bad Dumper was as a head coach. The next 2 weeks will tell alot about Munster, but even if those games did not go well for you major progress will still have been made.

[dropkick]

Good win if too spectacular.
Butler was about the best on the field imo.
Zebo was excellent considering its his 1st game in 3 months,looks to have taken up where he left off last season.
Penney has options all over and should have a few very hard decisions to make.
Next 2 games should tell munster where they stand but progress is being made week on week.
Roll on the Ospreys and your good selves.

I agree, very good progress being made by Penny. I think that just shows how bad Dumper was as a head coach. The next 2 weeks will tell alot about Munster, but even if those games did not go well for you major progress will still have been made.

Dumper was an average coach who made some bad decisions including hiring the likes of Jason Holland. Penney is regarded as a top class coach in New Zealand so it could also be a case of him making McGahan look bad.

[tones]

Good win if too spectacular.
Butler was about the best on the field imo.
Zebo was excellent considering its his 1st game in 3 months,looks to have taken up where he left off last season.
Penney has options all over and should have a few very hard decisions to make.
Next 2 games should tell munster where they stand but progress is being made week on week.
Roll on the Ospreys and your good selves.

I agree, very good progress being made by Penny. I think that just shows how bad Dumper was as a head coach. The next 2 weeks will tell alot about Munster, but even if those games did not go well for you major progress will still have been made.

Dumper was an average coach who made some bad decisions including hiring the likes of Jason Holland. Penney is regarded as a top class coach in New Zealand so it could also be a case of him making McGahan look bad.

I'd say Dumper was an average head coach, but certainly did a lot of good work while working in assistant type roles.

[Dave Cahill]

How easily it is forgotten that everything that people are saying about Penny and how Munster are playing was being said in spades about McGahan, until 17.29 on the 2nd of May 2009.

Thats not to say that Munster aren't playing well now, or weren't playing well then, its simply to point out that its not the first time we've heard it and there seems to be a certain amount of revisionism going on. Out of all the Munster supporters I know, there was only really one guy who didn't think the McGahan project was all it appeared to be at the time. And I actually think he was wrong (or at least basing his criticism on unsecure grounds)

McGahan took a team that was beginning to be crippled by injuries and affected by age with no succession planning in place and serious flaws in key positions with a Plan A gameplan that was basically outlawed, and got them to three European semi finals and two league titles in 4 years and at the same time somehow kicked a moribund academy into enough life to supply a couple of players that might end up being long term selections.

[kendalgerty]

Not denied Dave, but I think what augurs well for Penney is how he has brought his vision to bear on Munster relatively quickly. They at least have a readily identifiable style and you can see what they're trying to do.

Munster in 2009 under McGahan was different, because he inherited a winning team and didn't have to do a whole lot with them at first. In the first eight months of his tenure they looked superb, but how much he had to do with it was never clear. Penney is developing a new team with new players and starting from close to scratch.

[ronk]

The signings were made before Penney came in. He's inherited a squad that got through its group unbeaten and has strengthened. They've won 3, lost 1 and got a nice bonus point at home against a team that's lost 3 out of 4.

I generally like the direction he's taking the team, but it's still very early in the season.

Penney has been given a much stronger hand to make changes than McGahan ever was. Until the semi in 2009, a lot of observers would have said that the 2008-2009 Munster team was a better one than the 2007-2008 team that won the Heineken Cup, the Lions selection reflected that.

[Oldschool]

So, time for a quick review of Rob Penney's progress to date.
For me he has ticked all the boxes possible at this stage and Munster fans should be delighted.
1. He appointed his own captain. This is the most significant thing he has done.
He has appointed a truly great AB to the bridge. That is his message to all the ego's.
2. He explained to Anthony the true meaning of tradition and what it means to be associated with NZ rugby, perhaps even explained to him why Ireland have never managed to beat the NZ national team and why indeed most other countries struggle to beat the NZ national team. He probably pointed up the N7/M7 to Dublin to make the point.
3. He already has the team playing a more expansive brand of rugby.
4. He has shown he is willing to experiment.
5. His team are winning and confidence is starting to flow.

His big task will be to raise ball handling skill levels to mount a realistic HEC challenge.

[jezzer]

This Munster team can be moulded a lot more easily than the one McGahan inherited. They ended up moulding him.

[deco]

So, time for a quick review of Rob Penney's progress to date.
For me he has ticked all the boxes possible at this stage and Munster fans should be delighted.
1. He appointed his own captain. This is the most significant thing he has done.
He has appointed a truly great AB to the bridge. That is his message to all the ego's.
2. He explained to Anthony the true meaning of tradition and what it means to be associated with NZ rugby, perhaps even explained to him why Ireland have never managed to beat the NZ national team and why indeed most other countries struggle to beat the NZ national team. He probably pointed up the N7/M7 to Dublin to make the point.
3. He already has the team playing a more expansive brand of rugby.
4. He has shown he is willing to experiment.
5. His team are winning and confidence is starting to flow.

His big task will be to raise ball handling skill levels to mount a realistic HEC challenge.

He is...Schmidt-Lite

[janeymac08]

So, time for a quick review of Rob Penney's progress to date.
For me he has ticked all the boxes possible at this stage and Munster fans should be delighted.
1. He appointed his own captain. This is the most significant thing he has done.
He has appointed a truly great AB to the bridge. That is his message to all the ego's.
2. He explained to Anthony the true meaning of tradition and what it means to be associated with NZ rugby, perhaps even explained to him why Ireland have never managed to beat the NZ national team and why indeed most other countries struggle to beat the NZ national team. He probably pointed up the N7/M7 to Dublin to make the point.
3. He already has the team playing a more expansive brand of rugby.
4. He has shown he is willing to experiment.
5. His team are winning and confidence is starting to flow.

His big task will be to raise ball handling skill levels to mount a realistic HEC challenge.

He is...Schmidt-Lite

If he does as well as Dougie-lite did for Leinster, we'll be grand!

[tones]

Dougie-Lite?

[TerenureJim]

Dougie-Lite?

I think he means Isa but lets face facts in the long term I'd probably call Dougie Isa-lite in terms of benefit to Irish provincial rugby, and that does not take anything away from Dougie.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

McGahan took a team that was beginning to be crippled by injuries and affected by age with no succession planning in place and serious flaws in key positions with a Plan A gameplan that was basically outlawed, and got them to three European semi finals and two league titles in 4 years and at the same time somehow kicked a moribund academy into enough life to supply a couple of players that might end up being long term selections.

I really think that they did it in spite of McGahan more than anything else. Look at how poor his signings were, how clueless their gameplan looked and and how his selections limited momentum being generated. I have sympathy with him as regards the injuries that were suffered and with the propping situation because to an extent I think that that was out of his hands. However, just because he had a tough job to do shouldn't excuse him for the rabble that they 'd become by the end of his reign.

I'm not surprised at all by Munster's form so far. I said ages ago that having someone in midfield who could get over the gainline and set targets for the support, and picking the same team consistently would see a rapid improvement and that's been the case.

The question now is how much can they kick on from these solid foundations and we won't know that until the big HC games.

You might be right about him kick starting the academy into action but tbh I've no idea about his involvement there. I don't think we should praise him for picking certain young players when the more experienced players ahead of them were rubbish anyway though.

[kendalgerty]

This Munster team can be moulded a lot more easily than the one McGahan inherited. They ended up moulding him.

+1 to this. In a way it's worked out well for him that POC and ROG have ben largely absent for the first month. He's been able to get the rest of the lads to buy into what he wants to do, and when POC and ROG become ssimilated in the team, it will be into a team that is playing good rugby, not one that has to be grabbed by the scruff of its neck by the twin totem personalities that are ROG and POC.

That's not to say they (POC especially) won't be important assets when they do return.

[Broken Wing]

Keith Wood and Gerry Thornley were talking about Munster's next 3 games as being the toughest run they could have (away to Ospreys, Leinster & Racing). I was surprised. Ospreys lost away to Treviso and at home to Glasgow and Ulster before getting a win away to Scarlets. Given their performances and the players they lost I fully expect Munster to blow them off the park. Munster are playing some fantastic rugby and should be looking at 2 wins out of those 3 with the loss coming to Leinster.

[Donny B.]

Denis Hurley makes his return to action this Saturday (6.30pm) after recovering from illness (tonsillitis) which kept him side-lined for the Newport Gwent Dragons game.

Conor Murray makes his first start of the season after coming off the bench for Ulster and Dragons, while Donnacha Ryan and Peter O'Mahony are included for the first time in a match day squad this season.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett Capt., K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo, R O'Gara, C Murray; W Du Preez, M Sherry, S Archer, D O'Callaghan, B Holland, T O'Donnell, N Ronan, P Butler. Replacements: D Varley, D Kilcoyne, BJ Botha, D Ryan, P O'Mahony, P Stringer, I Keatley, J Downey.

Will be interesting to see how Earls and Laulala combine in the centre together.

[bgclaw]

Great to se Archer getting real gametime not just 5 minute cameos. H has his work cut out for him with Jones but you learn nothing easy at T/H
Good side overall CL/Earls should be interesting.
The backrows should decide the winner although i would have liked to see Dougall at least on the bench.
If munster get away with a LBP and make a little more progress with Archer and Kilcoyne and the centre/backrow combinations it should keep most supporters happy.
Interesting to see how ROG/Murray go, will this decide the ROG/Keately conundrum.

[Cianostays]

Haven't really had a look at Munster this year but I've heard Keatley is going very well. Pressure on ROG for this game and it'll be intresting to see how he plays.

[Donny B.]

Andrew Bishop attacked that line like it was a random stranger! Munster have done nothing in this game so far.