Munster Thread 2012-2013

[bgclaw]

He does not like playing 11 but will do whats asked of him.
Whats the big deal.

[[Jackass]]

Jeez, he's spending a bit too much time with O'Gara...

He also says every bad game I have had is at 11...nope, it's been at 15 too (30 - 0 in RDS?), but it's not the number on your back that made him have those bad games, it's because he's been exposed as a terrible defender on the outside consistently. At least in midfield his defence inept can be covered more by players around him, or at least his errors aren't as glaringly obvious and the blame can be shared.

[Munsterboy]

Some very over the top posts here from the normal crew. Earls has said he sees himself as a 13 and wants to play there, what is the issue? He hasn't come out and said if he isn't playing 13 he is leaving, or that he refuses to play anywhere else. If mcfadden stated that he sees himself as a 12 and let joe know, i doubt there would be any issue from any of ye?

Excellent post. This thread has devoted far too much time to what is, in my view, a completely irrelevant issue. "Attacking player caught up in 'desire to play in position that sees more of the ball' shocker". Good wingers who are sh!te fullbacks have been doing it for years - Conway looks likely to be the next player to fit this description.

Most people seem to agree that Earls is a much better 11 than he is a 13, but also accept that he has improved considerably in the latter position. Unless he starts actively undermining the management, or refusing to tog out on the wing, he's entitled to his view provided also that he gives 100% on the field of play. I don't think I have ever seen him do otherwise. Earls is a superb attacking threat whose best years are yet to come. He has had some superb games for Munster, Ireland and (despite a horrific start to his tour) the Lions. People on this forum need to stop giving him such a hard time just because he speaks his mind.

"I absolutely hate playing 11" is the quote that has caused raised eye-brows, not "I want to be considered as a 13".

So what? Christ people are so precious when a Munster player says anything beyond the usual cliches and platitudes.

[hugonaut]

So what? Christ people are so precious when a Munster player says anything beyond the usual cliches and platitudes.

Wind your neck in. It'd be interesting if any Irish player said the same thing about the position in which he has been most often selected at international level, regardless of where he came from. If Sean O'Brien blurted out that he 'hated' playing openside, or if Fergus McFadden came out and said "I hate playing wing", it'd be big news on a slow day as well.

There's also the fact that Earls is on record as saying: "... moving from centre to wing is a good, fresh challenge for me … I like that about playing on the wing. It can be very crowded at 13 and there is more space to attack out there (the wing)." [source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 69980.html – IT, February 2011]

Some turnaround.

[ronk]

The comment about being happy with the jersey when he was junior but it not being good enough now sat badly with me. Now that he's an established player he should get his position and others should move around.

[bgclaw]

So what? Christ people are so precious when a Munster player says anything beyond the usual cliches and platitudes.

Wind your neck in. It'd be interesting if any Irish player said the same thing about the position in which he has been most often selected at international level, regardless of where he came from. If Sean O'Brien blurted out that he 'hated' playing openside, or if Fergus McFadden came out and said "I hate playing wing", it'd be big news on a slow day as well.

There's also the fact that Earls is on record as saying: "... moving from centre to wing is a good, fresh challenge for me … I like that about playing on the wing. It can be very crowded at 13 and there is more space to attack out there (the wing)." [source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 69980.html – IT, February 2011]

Some turnaround.

I love the way you link any quotes and take a newspapers word as gospel.
Wind your neck in its pathetic.Who really gives a fiddlers,he stated he will play where he is required.(can you link that part or is it only the bits that suit your agenda you are willing to link)
Face facts he is a fine player and will be long in the irish jersey be that at 15.11 or 13.

[tackle-bag]

I love the way you link any quotes and take a newspapers word as gospel.

Don't fully understand this point, but if the Irish Times attributes a direct quote to a player, I'm going to operate on the assumption that it's accurate.

[bgclaw]

I love the way you link any quotes and take a newspapers word as gospel.

Don't fully understand this point, but if the Irish Times attributes a direct quote to a player, I'm going to operate on the assumption that it's accurate.

You obviously dont fully understand the point.
By the way Keith Earls is the mans name not keet.

Or Keesh as he would be known by the older limerick lady folk.

[tackle-bag]

I love the way you link any quotes and take a newspapers word as gospel.

Don't fully understand this point, but if the Irish Times attributes a direct quote to a player, I'm going to operate on the assumption that it's accurate.

You obviously dont fully understand the point.

Well explain it then. You've criticised Hugonaut for "[taking] a newspapers (sic) word as gospel". Which aspect of the Irish Times' reporting shouldn't we rely on?

I've made the argument already that this is a pointless discussion. Earls has expressed a preference for a position in fairly trenchant terms, but he hasn't done anything wrong, even if his current view is something of a change from that expressed in days gone by.

[ceemec]

You obviously dont fully understand the point.
By the way Keith Earls is the mans name not keet.

You obviously don't understand the concept of a direct quote.

[bgclaw]

wellthat was my point some here want to make a story of a line in a paper.
Hugo loves his links and more power to him(he knows his stuff in fairness i was taking the piss)

[bgclaw]

You obviously dont fully understand the point.
By the way Keith Earls is the mans name not keet.

You obviously don't understand the concept of a direct quote.

Thanks for your input its much appreciated.

[HenryFitz]

Looking at that earlier quote, Keith is obviously one of the few people who allows experience or empirical data to alter his opinions. I can see why that would be unpopular on an internet forum.

[janeymac08]

So what? Christ people are so precious when a Munster player says anything beyond the usual cliches and platitudes.

Wind your neck in. It'd be interesting if any Irish player said the same thing about the position in which he has been most often selected at international level, regardless of where he came from. If Sean O'Brien blurted out that he 'hated' playing openside, or if Fergus McFadden came out and said "I hate playing wing", it'd be big news on a slow day as well.

There's also the fact that Earls is on record as saying: "... moving from centre to wing is a good, fresh challenge for me … I like that about playing on the wing. It can be very crowded at 13 and there is more space to attack out there (the wing)." [source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 69980.html – IT, February 2011]

Some turnaround.

Not really when you don't take the quote out of its context.

Having couple of strings to your bow is a handy commodity, not least with a World Cup in mind? “It (versatility) can work both ways. It can be good for you and bad for you. I hate it when I see people writing that ‘Earls would made a good impact selection off the bench’. I want to be more than that.”

As that late try against Irish showed, Earls has more chances to take on players one-on-one and to finish off tries on the wing. “Yeah, I like that about playing on the wing. It can be very crowded at 13 and there is more space to attack out there (the wing).”

The full article can be read here if you don''t have access to the IT.
http://www.heineken.ie/heinekencup/news ... ning-ball/

[dropkick]

Can't believe people are still talking about Earls' comments. Well I suppose there isn't much happening in the rugby news.

Moving on, how do you Leinster fans think Munster will do this season. I can only see an improvement on last season and I think there'll be a big improvement. Penney, Mannix, Downey, Lualala, Stringer, Stander are all good or very good additions to the squad. Some players like Sherry, Dave O'Callaghan, Luke O'Dea and Zebo are a year older. Theres also Hanrahan coming through and the injury list can't possibly be as bad as last season.

The most important man is Penney. I'm hoping himself and Mannix can not only improve Munsters attack but completely transform it and speed everything up.

[tackle-bag]

Can't believe people are still talking about Earls' comments. Well I suppose there isn't much happening in the rugby news.

Moving on, how do you Leinster fans think Munster will do this season. I can only see an improvement on last season and I think there'll be a big improvement. Penney, Mannix, Downey, Lualala, Stringer, Stander are all good or very good additions to the squad. Some players like Sherry, Dave O'Callaghan, Luke O'Dea and Zebo are a year older. Theres also Hanrahan coming through and the injury list can't possibly be as bad as last season.

The most important man is Penney. I'm hoping himself and Mannix can not only improve Munsters attack but completely transform it and speed everything up.

I agree that the injury list can't be as bad, but that's because most of the players who were on it have hung up their boots!

I think Munster will have a solid season. The HC draw has been ok but not great, meaning that they're likely to have an away quarter-final if they escape the group. Can't see their current squad getting an away win against the likes of Toulouse or Toulon, but I still think they'll do the business in the Pro12.

You make a very valid point that the likes of Sherry and Zebo are a year older, and I think we can expect big things from them. However, by the same token, key players like Botha, ROG, POC and Howlett are all a year further past their prime and may struggle to maintain the necessary standard.

Ultimately, I don't think this Munster squad is good enough to contend at the business end of the HC. They're going to have too many average players in their first XV to do so. Even at full strength, they are likely to be starting HC games with one journeyman in the back-row and one more at inside centre.

I hope I'm wrong in my assessment, and would really like to see them blaze a trail for the sake of Irish rugby. They key player, in my view, will be Stander. Last season, their back-row just wasn't up to it and got blown away by Ulster in the HC quarter-final. If Stander can help them turn the corner in this aspect of their play, they might surprise a few people.

[ronk]

When Joe came, Leinster had an initial dip in form because of the difficulties in adjusting to the changes. And we were a team with rock solid foundations.

I wouldn't be surprised if Munster have a few days where they look a bit clueless, and I wouldn't necessarily see it as a bad sign either. Patience is important at the moment.

[kendalgerty]

I think Munster's season will be infinitely fascinating. It's a new era, a new dawn, new coaches, new players and it'll be really interesting to see who really puts their hand up and who the new coach decides he doesn't really fancy.

Penney will doubtless want to get them away from the one-man-out carriers crashing into the gain line. I'd imagine, as a Kiwi, that sort of thing hurts his eyes just to look at it. The ROG situation wil also be fascinating. I can't see him playing 80 minutes of every pool game this year, so how is Penney going to manage that? Start him or have him on at the end? We all know replacing ROG comes with a world of issues, even if you have a good player for the position.

Plenty of names with a bit of potential to watch and see how they progress: Sherry, O'Callaghan (not that one), Butler, Stander to name but a few in the forwards. Good players for sure, but whether they can be adequate replacements for Generation Ligind remains to be seen.

[HenryFitz]

I'd like to see an end to Munster's dependence on South African props. Botha is off at the end of the season, fingers crossed, so Archer and Ryan will hopefully have been groomed to replace him. When I think of the money spent on Botha and Du Preez just so they could be shunted around every which way by Northampton and Ospreys, I feel like crying. Kilcoyne looks primed to make the step up this year, and hopefully his dynamism in the loose will see him get at least a fair shot at the jersey. Having SH journeymen togging out for Munster in positions of traditional strength has been embarrassing.

I hope Stander doesn't end up as a roadblock to Paddy Butler, Peter O'Mahony or Dave O'Callaghan''s careers, but it's looking fairly likely. He seems a good player, but there's no shortage of good young back-rows in Munster or Ireland. This isn't like bringing Jim Williams over to impart his wisdom to the likes of Leamy and Keogh. This is a direct supplanting of young Irish talent by young South African talent.

Best case scenario for Ireland is that Keatley, Hanrahan and Earls end up as the first-choice midfield by the end of the season. Worst case is that ROG, Downey and Laulala hog all the big games and the rebuilding is postponed for another year.

More broadly, I'd hope to see Munster give up the sticking-plaster approach to recruitment and selection. They did fine in the old days with one marquee forward and one marquee back from the SH. Bringing in all these sub-international-class placeholders hasn't brought immediate success or helped long-term development. Not to mention its effect on Munster's homegrown heritage/marketing slogans. It's long past time to take some present pain for the sake of the future.

[tones]

Munster will be tough to beat but not much more with a simple enough gameplan.
Some of the players coming through with glowing recommendations and caps (possibly before their time) will need to follow that up. One impression I get from Penney is reputations (earned or otherwise) won't matter. It will be his way or the highway. Could lead to a little bit of rancour in the squad.
Boat is still out on Mannix, it is suggested that he wasn't allowed to do what he wanted at Racing, but Racing haven't commented bar ending his contract. Tactics, as already said, will be simple enough which in the H Cup only get you so far. Their pool is not the toughest to be quite honest, so that will be a true reflection of where they are.