Sabre-rattling from Premiership Rugby again ...

[blockhead]

Little 2.5min video tribute to the French clubs in the Heino on the ERC website.
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchdaytv? ... a&id=16834

[lincs tiger]

you can see where this is going, the format the unions agreed, 7 pro-12, 6-PRL and 6-french and 1 play off is going to be the format, the Champions cut have matched that format by offering the pro12 one more place making it 7. The money is agreed, the competition will have a new name probably the Champions cup and may even be sponsered by Heniken. Sky will not have rights because it is a new competition, but a lot like the old one. The unions will govern, but the clubs will have a greater say in commercial end.

Cafferey will claim its all his doing. The unions will let him, as they are grown ups and have gotten what they want which is ownership, a happy IRB and protection of the world game / 6N.

The PRL are paroting the Unions at this stage, they confirm 7 places for pro-12 and a week later the PRL / LNR offer the pro-12 an extra place.

SOME PEOPLE WILL HAVE A KNICKER FIT BECAUSE THEY THINK PRL WON.

I think SKY will still be there as the FFR position appears to be talking about getting their teams in to the ERC competition. I can see most of what you said coming through with it remaining as the HC under the ERC and with SKY who will not want to lose another contract to BT.

From where I'm sitting in Leicestershire FFR caused this mess in the first place. 30 out of the 38 teams that compete in European rugby wanted Peter Wheeler as ERC chair. Camou had a tantrum and exercised the state veto to keep his pal Bol in a job and . With Wheeler we'd have probably ended up with the now agreed 20:20 structure but everyone happy for it to be run by the ERC.

[fourthirtythree]

From where everybody else is sitting PRL saw an opportunity to takeover European rugby. Let's hope it didn't work out. Because it wouldn't have been pretty.

[simonokeeffe]

Little 2.5min video tribute to the French clubs in the Heino on the ERC website.
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchdaytv? ... a&id=16834

How heavily do Bourgoin feature?

[JB1973]

From where everybody else is sitting PRL saw an opportunity to takeover European rugby. Let's hope it didn't work out. Because it wouldn't have been pretty.

I concur with this post, the nonsense about Wheeler being in charge and everything would have been rosy is a total smoke screen.

Old Mccaferty,Wray and co have all gone very quiet all of a sudden , what happened to this October 31st deadline to join up or be excluded from their new cup?

[Oldschool]

From where everybody else is sitting PRL saw an opportunity to takeover European rugby. Let's hope it didn't work out. Because it wouldn't have been pretty.

I concur with this post, the nonsense about Wheeler being in charge and everything would have been rosy is a total smoke screen.

Old Mccaferty,Wray and co have all gone very quiet all of a sudden , what happened to this October 31st deadline to join up or be excluded from their new cup?

Deadlines come and go. It's normal to set goals. In this case it was a tactical deadline (or bluff if you prefer), there was nothing hanging on it contractually.
If it even only helped to focus minds it was a good thing, but I doubt that was McC et als intention.

[Fireworks]

you can see where this is going, the format the unions agreed, 7 pro-12, 6-PRL and 6-french and 1 play off is going to be the format, the Champions cut have matched that format by offering the pro12 one more place making it 7. The money is agreed, the competition will have a new name probably the Champions cup and may even be sponsered by Heniken. Sky will not have rights because it is a new competition, but a lot like the old one. The unions will govern, but the clubs will have a greater say in commercial end.

Cafferey will claim its all his doing. The unions will let him, as they are grown ups and have gotten what they want which is ownership, a happy IRB and protection of the world game / 6N.

The PRL are paroting the Unions at this stage, they confirm 7 places for pro-12 and a week later the PRL / LNR offer the pro-12 an extra place.

SOME PEOPLE WILL HAVE A KNICKER FIT BECAUSE THEY THINK PRL WON.

I think SKY will still be there as the FFR position appears to be talking about getting their teams in to the ERC competition. I can see most of what you said coming through with it remaining as the HC under the ERC and with SKY who will not want to lose another contract to BT.

From where I'm sitting in Leicestershire FFR caused this mess in the first place. 30 out of the 38 teams that compete in European rugby wanted Peter Wheeler as ERC chair. Camou had a tantrum and exercised the state veto to keep his pal Bol in a job and . With Wheeler we'd have probably ended up with the now agreed 20:20 structure but everyone happy for it to be run by the ERC.

Yawn. Here we go again. THE UNIONS RUN THE GAME. it is only in France and england that they messed up and did not follow the rest of the world in having Union controlled franchises. If some clubs have a view on who should be in a job they should have a word with their union. As is being demonstrated now with this prl created farce is that what the clubs want is not always good for the game and we should leave it to the unions to make the decisions.

The current issue is a power grab and is about killing off the other teams they cannot beat on the pitch by trying to starve them of funds and steal their players. How would wheeler being in place make this any different as all the points of argument except for control and tv rights have been dealt with.

[Flash Gordon]

From where everybody else is sitting PRL saw an opportunity to takeover European rugby. Let's hope it didn't work out. Because it wouldn't have been pretty.

I concur with this post, the nonsense about Wheeler being in charge and everything would have been rosy is a total smoke screen.

Old Mccaferty,Wray and co have all gone very quiet all of a sudden , what happened to this October 31st deadline to join up or be excluded from their new cup?

Deadlines come and go. It's normal to set goals. In this case it was a tactical deadline (or bluff if you prefer), there was nothing hanging on it contractually.
If it even only helped to focus minds it was a good thing, but I doubt that was McC et als intention.

Do you really think commercial deals and sponsorships are decided the week before the tournament happens? Whatever form the new tournament takes it is too late for most sponsors to involve themselves. Multinational companies decide their plans 1-2 years in advance, nobody even knows what the tournament is, who to negotiate with and the level of urgency is non-existent. If a tournament comes out of this mess its sponsorship value will be massively undervalued because of the logistical and decision making mess that it emerged from.

[Fireworks]

From where everybody else is sitting PRL saw an opportunity to takeover European rugby. Let's hope it didn't work out. Because it wouldn't have been pretty.

Do you really think commercial deals and sponsorships are decided the week before the tournament happens? Whatever form the new tournament takes it is too late for most sponsors to involve themselves. Multinational companies decide their plans 1-2 years in advance, nobody even knows what the tournament is, who to negotiate with and the level of urgency is non-existent. If a tournament comes out of this mess its sponsorship value will be massively undervalued because of the logistical and decision making mess that it emerged from.

[/quote]

Totally agree. With all the messing that has gone on the only option left with a sponsorship deal in place is the HC. Big sponsorship is not just about putting your name on something. Companies need time to build a package around the event including merchandise etc.

[Scrum 5]

December 14th being given as D-day for the Heineken Cup debate over on a Leicester fans forum with what looks like a positive outcome for the Rabo:

Post Re: Heineken Cup no nearer a resolution

biffer wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I've been told on another forum that the FFR "licences" LNR to run the T14 and D1, and that licence expires on the 14th of December 2013. The renewal is required before LNR can negotiate the T14 TV rights which involve many millions of Euro.

That being the case, it's another piece of the puzzle backing the FFR to win in this argument.

That is 100% correct and 14th December is the day I have been looking forward to for some time.

It should also be understood that the licence actually expired in June but a 6 months extension was granted, presumably to facilitate discussion on the European future. I doubt any further extension will be granted, its decision time.

I believe the aggressive M.Goze may be told the facts of life. M.Camou is not for moving & M.Lapasset will support his old friend and successor at FFR. M.Camou has been quoted as saying their are already 4 teams committed to HC, I predict more will follow when push comes to shove.

At that point I see LNR capitulating & PRL in a parlous state of distress, offering Mr McCafferty up for human sacrifice and a deal will be done ................. at last.

We the fans may then look forward to the continued joy of European rugby. BT or no BT I can't see English clubs watching whilst the rest of the teams play HC. It did of course happen once before, but the next season English teams quietly returned without any concessions to them.

I understand that Heineken, Amlin & Fed-Ex have already indicated their willingness to renew their sponsorships for a further 3 years & that a TV compromise between SKY & BT will happen, though it is the trickiest of the issues.

The running of the tournament will continue under the auspices of the 6Ns, based in Dublin for tax purposes - not IRFU influence as some here seem to think - & that even if the ERC name is sacrificed (by no means certain) to allow some face-saving, the tournament will continue to operate from a tax advantageous Dublin base.

I wish it were all done & dusted to save us all going round & round the same arguments for another month. It is unlikely that any club from any country will go bust, you will be delighted to hear.

HEALTH WARNING: Of course, as always, my sources could be whistling Dixie & other outcomes are entirely possible. However, roll on the 14th December.

http://forum.leicestertigers.com/viewto ... &start=945

Didn't know this slant from the French side of things.

[lincs tiger]

December 14th being given as D-day for the Heineken Cup debate over on a Leicester fans forum with what looks like a positive outcome for the Rabo:

Post Re: Heineken Cup no nearer a resolution

biffer wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I've been told on another forum that the FFR "licences" LNR to run the T14 and D1, and that licence expires on the 14th of December 2013. The renewal is required before LNR can negotiate the T14 TV rights which involve many millions of Euro.

That being the case, it's another piece of the puzzle backing the FFR to win in this argument.

That is 100% correct and 14th December is the day I have been looking forward to for some time.

It should also be understood that the licence actually expired in June but a 6 months extension was granted, presumably to facilitate discussion on the European future. I doubt any further extension will be granted, its decision time.

I believe the aggressive M.Goze may be told the facts of life. M.Camou is not for moving & M.Lapasset will support his old friend and successor at FFR. M.Camou has been quoted as saying their are already 4 teams committed to HC, I predict more will follow when push comes to shove.

At that point I see LNR capitulating & PRL in a parlous state of distress, offering Mr McCafferty up for human sacrifice and a deal will be done ................. at last.

We the fans may then look forward to the continued joy of European rugby. BT or no BT I can't see English clubs watching whilst the rest of the teams play HC. It did of course happen once before, but the next season English teams quietly returned without any concessions to them.

I understand that Heineken, Amlin & Fed-Ex have already indicated their willingness to renew their sponsorships for a further 3 years & that a TV compromise between SKY & BT will happen, though it is the trickiest of the issues.

The running of the tournament will continue under the auspices of the 6Ns, based in Dublin for tax purposes - not IRFU influence as some here seem to think - & that even if the ERC name is sacrificed (by no means certain) to allow some face-saving, the tournament will continue to operate from a tax advantageous Dublin base.

I wish it were all done & dusted to save us all going round & round the same arguments for another month. It is unlikely that any club from any country will go bust, you will be delighted to hear.

HEALTH WARNING: Of course, as always, my sources could be whistling Dixie & other outcomes are entirely possible. However, roll on the 14th December.

http://forum.leicestertigers.com/viewto ... &start=945

Didn't know this slant from the French side of things.

Well if that's where it ends up, including the TV rights being shared, everyone should be happy. The Franglais clubs will have got what the they wanted in restructuring, PRL clubs will have got a better TV deal and the unions will still have overall control. Despite all scare-mongering about clubs, mostly from small and medium sized English cities, taking over and running world rugby, that is never what they wanted. What they wanted was the right, as independently run clubs, to get the best commercial deals from their stadium and playing assets in which millions of pounds had been invested, instead of being told who to sell to, and for what price, by some people in an office in Dublin. I rest my case, we could have got there alot quicker and with alot less pain if FFR had not vetoed Peter Wheeler replacing Bol.

[rooster]

I still reckon we will either see a repeat of 99 or the PRL will join ERC Mk2 with Heineken, and the rest of the sponsors and Sky with the tv contract.

[BlueBlue]

Do you really think commercial deals and sponsorships are decided the week before the tournament happens? Whatever form the new tournament takes it is too late for most sponsors to involve themselves. Multinational companies decide their plans 1-2 years in advance, nobody even knows what the tournament is, who to negotiate with and the level of urgency is non-existent. If a tournament comes out of this mess its sponsorship value will be massively undervalued because of the logistical and decision making mess that it emerged from.

I dont think anyone would disagree with you there. Funny thing is, we had a great competition already.

[rooster]

Do you really think commercial deals and sponsorships are decided the week before the tournament happens? Whatever form the new tournament takes it is too late for most sponsors to involve themselves. Multinational companies decide their plans 1-2 years in advance, nobody even knows what the tournament is, who to negotiate with and the level of urgency is non-existent. If a tournament comes out of this mess its sponsorship value will be massively undervalued because of the logistical and decision making mess that it emerged from.

I dont think anyone would disagree with you there. Funny thing is, we had a great competition already.

And I think it will go ahead next year as well with same sponsors an tv.

[simonokeeffe]

IT reporting mass division in French club ranks and unions planning for HC without English clubs

[Fireworks]

IT reporting mass division in French club ranks and unions planning for HC without English clubs

Interesting article. If it comes through how long with prl be able to hold out. The perceived wisdom is that the BT deal is only good if they get the new european competition. If that is true then they are going to be short of money and those on the edge may go under. It will also make it more difficult for them to hold on to their top players who will start getting sucked in by the french.

[Jackie Brown]

IT reporting mass division in French club ranks and unions planning for HC without English clubs

Interesting article. If it comes through how long with prl be able to hold out. The perceived wisdom is that the BT deal is only good if they get the new european competition. If that is true then they are going to be short of money and those on the edge may go under. It will also make it more difficult for them to hold on to their top players who will start getting sucked in by the french.

My heart bleeds...

[tigerburnie]

IT reporting mass division in French club ranks and unions planning for HC without English clubs

Interesting article. If it comes through how long with prl be able to hold out. The perceived wisdom is that the BT deal is only good if they get the new european competition. If that is true then they are going to be short of money and those on the edge may go under. It will also make it more difficult for them to hold on to their top players who will start getting sucked in by the french.

Idle gossip and speculation by hacks that have got to sell newspapers, what is a fact is the domestic BT deal is running NOW and is paying the PRL clubs more money than they got last year from Sky. What happens with the new competition has gone very quiet during the AI's. As England are now back to their domestic league again I would guess things will be moving along again.

[Jackie Brown]

The worm has turned

[deco]

The worm has turned

The only winners if this is true are the French - unless you see the English being put in their place as a victory.

The Irish may be better off than they would've been if PRL got their way - but without the English teams in Europe next year, it could be a Pyrrhic victory.