Munster 2013/2014

[Peg Leg]

Why is it that when Munster choke in a match they could have won its "Heroic" and noted how they showed great pride and passhunnn, but if its Leinster or Ulster its a case of a soft under belly or a "choker" tag is given.

Loosing against a behemoth is not choking.

[johng]

Why is it that when Munster choke in a match they could have won its "Heroic" and noted how they showed great pride and passhunnn, but if its Leinster or Ulster its a case of a soft under belly or a "choker" tag is given.

Loosing against a behemoth is not choking.

They certainly put our efforts in the quarter to shame. Were within a score until the last 2 mins. Sounds fairly heroic to me, up against a side like Toulon.

Put the 2 squads beside each other on paper and tell me what the score should be.

[tones]

Why is it that when Munster choke in a match they could have won its "Heroic" and noted how they showed great pride and passhunnn, but if its Leinster or Ulster its a case of a soft under belly or a "choker" tag is given.

Loosing against a behemoth is not choking.

They certainly put our efforts in the quarter to shame. Were within a score until the last 2 mins. Sounds fairly heroic to me, up against a side like Toulon.

Put the 2 squads beside each other on paper and tell me what the score should be.

But I thought half of their squad should have been in the international test team??

[johng]

And loads of Toulon's have been in WC winning teams. Bit of a step up from almost making a test side.

(Yes I know you were having a laugh)

[nc6000]

I don't think you can say that Munster choked. They put in a considerably better performance than Leinster managed.

[tones]

And loads of Toulon's have been in WC winning teams. Bit of a step up from almost making a test side.

(Yes I know you were having a laugh)

You sure?

[johng]

About you having a laugh or about the WC winners in Toulon's team..........

A. No just presuming you were jokingly referencing the whinging of some Munster fans during the 6N

B Yes.

[tones]

About you having a laugh or about the WC winners in Toulon's team..........

A. No just presuming you were jokingly referencing the whinging of some Munster fans during the 6N

B Yes.

Sorry, that was a joke as well, should have included a smiley! No offence meant.

[johng]

I knew that.

[olaf the fat]

Munster had better tactics than we used. Their kicking was better, and our use of shooters in defence left big gaps. I think the biggest wound both Munster and Leinster was just silly handling errors. How many dropped or badly passed balls?

Munster held out Toulons early 2nd half surge, we failed.

A home semi could have put Munster through.(although a home quarter final and we could be arranging transport to Cardiff!

[Morf]

I listened on Newstalk and they were pretty critical of Munster missing the opportunity of Toulon a bit off the boil.

[Peg Leg]

Following this and several recent performances I would removing one Ian from the international panel and replacing him with the other.

[suisse]

Following this and several recent performances I would removing one Ian from the international panel and replacing him with the other.

How can you replace Keatley with Henderson though? They don't play in the same position.

Cos you could only be talking about Henderson, not the Ian who is Leinster's saviour?

[Lar]

Munster were better than we were against Toulon but two other factors are equally relevant:

1 Despite their overall performance Munster almost lost that game as much as Toulon won it. Some of the decision making was atrocious and I don't just mean the one to go to the corner with about 9 minutes left. Quite un-Munster like if you look at their record over the years to be fair.

2 Toulon were nothing like as strong against Munster as they were against us. Whether that is down to how good Munster were or how bad we were I am not sure - maybe a combination of both.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I've mixed feelings about how Munster played. Even though Toulon nearly overran them just before Zebo scored, they still defended brilliantly at times. Toulon were definitely less clinical than when they played us but in fairness that was down to the defence too. Zebo's tackle on Armitage was outstanding so wouldn't blame Toulon for not finishing that one.

On the other hand, they did what we did but in a different way. They heaped pressure on themselves by not playing territory and taking risky options such as Laulala throwing that skip pass in his own 22 with half an hour still to go. We kicked to them and lost the aerial battle, eventually cracking under the constant pressure, Munster really did just need to play more territory and you got the feeling Toulon would crack. The sub hooker for Toulon is brutal so really thought there'd be a change of tactics when he came on, would have thought POC would be rubbing his hands at the prospect of putting him off.

It was as if they focused so much on how to stop Toulon that they forgot about how to go about winning. As close as they came to getting ahead, they really didn't have many chances aside from the try they scored.

[offshorerules]

I'd also suggest that they were not playing 'at home' against Munster as being a big factor. Toulon is a good distance away from Marseilles iirc. Not at all like Leinster playing in the Aviva.

[ceemec]

52 minutes. Toulon 18-9 Munster after Toulon have been on top throughout but Munster have got a foothold in the last few minutes. Line out in Toulon territory for Munster. They win it and maul their way over to bring it to 18-16. Toulon are rattled but gradually get back on top and close out the game.

61 minutes. Toulon 16-9 Leinster after Toulon have been on top throughout but Leinster have got a foothold in the last few minutes. Line out in Toulon territory for Leinster. They lose it, ball is hacked through 80m and Toulon score the killer blow.

The game is won and lost on fine margins. When opportunities present themselves you need to take them and Leinster failed to do so. I don't buy into the oft made argument that we were destroyed at the breakdown. I've watched the game again and we clearly weren't. We actually won more of their ruck ball than they did ours. We did not deal with their midfield carriers and we did not secure our set piece. Munster did and came much closer.

[fourthirtythree]

52 minutes. Toulon 18-9 Munster after Toulon have been on top throughout but Munster have got a foothold in the last few minutes. Line out in Toulon territory for Munster. They win it and maul their way over to bring it to 18-16. Toulon are rattled but gradually get back on top and close out the game.

61 minutes. Toulon 16-9 Leinster after Toulon have been on top throughout but Leinster have got a foothold in the last few minutes. Line out in Toulon territory for Leinster. They lose it, ball is hacked through 80m and Toulon score the killer blow.

The game is won and lost on fine margins. When opportunities present themselves you need to take them and Leinster failed to do so. I don't buy into the oft made argument that we were destroyed at the breakdown. I've watched the game again and we clearly weren't. We actually won more of their ruck ball than they did ours. We did not deal with their midfield carriers and we did not secure our set piece. Munster did and came much closer.

That's an excellent summary. I noticed the ruck stats after the game, and it's funny because it certainly didn't feel like it at the time. Remove the emotional clichés about a game and you get a much better idea of how it actually went. Everybody was "brave", that had little to do with it.

[domhnallj]

52 minutes. Toulon 18-9 Munster after Toulon have been on top throughout but Munster have got a foothold in the last few minutes. Line out in Toulon territory for Munster. They win it and maul their way over to bring it to 18-16. Toulon are rattled but gradually get back on top and close out the game.

61 minutes. Toulon 16-9 Leinster after Toulon have been on top throughout but Leinster have got a foothold in the last few minutes. Line out in Toulon territory for Leinster. They lose it, ball is hacked through 80m and Toulon score the killer blow.

The game is won and lost on fine margins. When opportunities present themselves you need to take them and Leinster failed to do so. I don't buy into the oft made argument that we were destroyed at the breakdown. I've watched the game again and we clearly weren't. We actually won more of their ruck ball than they did ours. We did not deal with their midfield carriers and we did not secure our set piece. Munster did and came much closer.

Could you just send that to the sports departments of the various Irish newspapers?

[ronk]

Munster would have been dead and buried if not for the tap tackle on Habana and/or the Habana slipping after blocking Earls (and even then it was almost a try in the corner).

The way the game has gone is that relatively close games that might have gone the other way on a different day can finish up with surprisingly large score differences.