Pro 12 - General Thread

[rooster]

There are few trips I'd like to make to away games, depending on when they are, for example the Italian games or the SA games if they come in.

However, I don't usually go because they don't nail down the fixture date if it's in the later half of the season, and by the time they've announced it I'm already busy.

Having a static fixture list would very much help with this.

Both Italian trips are well worth a visit, personally prefer Parma but Treviso is also excellent and a great base of you want a wee day trip to Venice, a few euro and half hour in a train.
Both easily accessible from Dublin

Not so easily accessible from Northampton though.

Milan flights surely from somewhere in the locality for Parma and Venice for Treviso

[rooster]

According to Mark Keohane the Cheetahs and the Southern Kings are joining the Pro12. First time a journalist I trust has 'confirmed' it.

Deadline for signing is tomorrow, start saving your holidays, 2 week mini tours for matches over there.

[FLIP]

Both Italian trips are well worth a visit, personally prefer Parma but Treviso is also excellent and a great base of you want a wee day trip to Venice, a few euro and half hour in a train.
Both easily accessible from Dublin

Not so easily accessible from Northampton though.

Milan flights surely from somewhere in the locality for Parma and Venice for Treviso

I'm sure there's something from Birmingham or *shudder* Luton airport, no doubt.

[simonokeeffe]

Again though the question must be asked, where do the SA Pro 12 teams get their players from and would Cheetahs and Kings field different sides (at same time) for Currie Cup and/or Vodacom Cup?

[jimbobjoe]

Again though the question must be asked, where do the SA Pro 12 teams get their players from and would Cheetahs and Kings field different sides (at same time) for Currie Cup and/or Vodacom Cup?

Have the SARU and WR even signed off on the PRO12 playing within that boundary?

[simonokeeffe]

Again though the question must be asked, where do the SA Pro 12 teams get their players from and would Cheetahs and Kings field different sides (at same time) for Currie Cup and/or Vodacom Cup?

Have the SARU and WR even signed off on the PRO12 playing within that boundary?

Oddly Im not sure theyve even commented
Cant see SARU agreeing to it myself with the SA pro 12 sides getting any primacy over players
The SA tv rights will be a pittance too

[blockhead]

From the BEEB

South African sides Cheetahs and Southern Kings set to join Pro12

By Matt Lloyd and Gareth Griffiths

BBC Sport Wales

2 hours ago From the section Welsh Rugby 26


South African teams Cheetahs and Southern Kings are set to join the Pro12 as early as September 2017.

The two sides are expected to be cut from Super Rugby on Friday, 7 July when governing body Sanzar reduces the size of the competition.

That will pave the way for them to join teams from Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Italy in a 14-team league.

The new format is set to start for the 2017-18 season, rather than the following year.

Celtic Rugby Limited - which governs the Pro12 - Cheetahs, Southern Kings and the South African Rugby Union have all been contacted by BBC Wales Sport but declined to comment.

Teams will play on a home and away basis but what has yet to be agreed is the format of the competition, whether it will be played as one 14-team league or two conferences of seven.

There has been speculation the South African sides could play some of their home matches in the United Kingdom, with Saracens' Allianz Arena mooted as a potential venue.

This would be the first major change to the Pro Rugby competition since the introduction of Italian sides in 2010.

Welsh and Scottish sides first combined in a league in 1999, before an agreement with the Irish Rugby Football Union saw the Celtic League formed in 2001 with 15 teams.

Now the tournament is set for another shake-up with the introduction of Cheetahs, based in Bloemfontein, and Port Elizabeth-based Kings.

The Cheetahs had already been approached to join the league.

Both are widely expected to lose their Super Rugby status amid a downsizing of the competition from 18 teams to 15.

As well as the two discarded South African sides, Australia will also lose one of its five representatives in the competition which also includes teams from New Zealand, Argentina and Japan.

SARFU is eager to align with a northern hemisphere tournament, which has a similar time zone, to make cross-border games compatible for television broadcasters.

This latest development could also open the door to North American participation for the following 2018-19 season, as the Pro12 explores options for expansion to generate more revenue and tap into new markets.

What next for rugby's Pro12?

Welsh Rugby Union chairman Gareth Davies insisted nothing had been finalised but welcomed the future prospect of South African sides joining the Pro12 competition.

"I can't tell you probably any more than has already been stated," Davies told BBC Wales Sport.

"There are discussions going on, which people are aware of, between the Pro12 and South African rugby union and the franchises down there.

"There is a desire from the South African teams I think to join the Pro12 and I think the Pro12 would like them to join.

"The Pro12 itself is a cross border competition already and this just extends this.

"It makes for a promising and exciting future, if it did happen.

"At the moment it looks like the two teams from Super Rugby that will not be in the competition next year will join (the Pro12).

"I suspect there will be interest further afield from South African teams as well.

"It just expands the tournament and I think it's an opportunity to develop the game within the northern hemisphere.

"There is still a lot of work to be done in terms of the legal complexities with issues such as broadcasting, commercial and most important, player welfare with all the travelling that has to be done and the logistics associated with that."

[rooster]

BBC were going well up to the point they mentioned USA yet again

[blockhead]

In these type of reports I think they just add the old report to the bottom of the new.
Obviously now, something is definitely happening.
What the fup it is, who knows. But this season? Sounds very rushed.

[Dave Cahill]

This is what I've heard from a couple of really good sources

Cheetahs and Kings to join the Guinness Atlantic Rugby Championship

SuperSport to be broadcast partner in RSA

Two confs of 7, play every team in your conference home AND away, every team in the other conference home OR away

GARC to 'help' rugby in North America with its contractual difficulties by either buying out the contracts at a vastly reduced rate or helping fund USA Rugby and Rugby Canada until the contracts expire

BT and Premiership Rugby became aware of these plans and instructed Prem to open negotiations for a B and I league - however some Prem owners (Bruce Craig foremost among them) would only accept it starting with the currrent Pro12 as Prem Div 2. The Pro12 said no.

BT not pleased. Prem coverage has not been successful for them - ironically, like Sky their best audiences are in Ireland for ECC games - so they've decided to reduce their Premiership spend quite considerably and concentrate on Europe which they will take from Sky entirely.

[Ruckedtobits]

This is what I've heard from a couple of really good sources

Cheetahs and Kings to join the Guinness Atlantic Rugby Championship

SuperSport to be broadcast partner in RSA

Two confs of 7, play every team in your conference home AND away, every team in the other conference home OR away

GARC to 'help' rugby in North America with its contractual difficulties by either buying out the contracts at a vastly reduced rate or helping fund USA Rugby and Rugby Canada until the contracts expire

BT and Premiership Rugby became aware of these plans and instructed Prem to open negotiations for a B and I league - however some Prem owners (Bruce Craig foremost among them) would only accept it starting with the currrent Pro12 as Prem Div 2. The Pro12 said no.

BT not pleased. Prem coverage has not been successful for them - ironically, like Sky their best audiences are in Ireland for ECC games - so they've decided to reduce their Premiership spend quite considerably and concentrate on Europe which they will take from Sky entirely.

Now that is what I would call a solid rumour!

There's so much logical detail in there, that's its hard to believe that anybody is just making it up.

Well done @DaveCahill.

[Dave Cahill]

We'll see how much of it comes to pass, but the guys I got this from I would trust considerably.

I hope they're wrong about the conferences though. They were fine for a tournament in a massive country pre air travel. I fail to see what they offer in the modern world.

[rooster]

This is what I've heard from a couple of really good sources

Cheetahs and Kings to join the Guinness Atlantic Rugby Championship

SuperSport to be broadcast partner in RSA

Two confs of 7, play every team in your conference home AND away, every team in the other conference home OR away

GARC to 'help' rugby in North America with its contractual difficulties by either buying out the contracts at a vastly reduced rate or helping fund USA Rugby and Rugby Canada until the contracts expire

BT and Premiership Rugby became aware of these plans and instructed Prem to open negotiations for a B and I league - however some Prem owners (Bruce Craig foremost among them) would only accept it starting with the currrent Pro12 as Prem Div 2. The Pro12 said no.

BT not pleased. Prem coverage has not been successful for them - ironically, like Sky their best audiences are in Ireland for ECC games - so they've decided to reduce their Premiership spend quite considerably and concentrate on Europe which they will take from Sky entirely.

Basically I have heard the same Dave except the conference bit, I heard a straight 14 team home and away with the away to SA being a 2 week mini tour and then them playing their away matches in the middle of our winter or their summer to get over the heat problem, it would possibly run on a 4 week tour of Irish sides same for Welsh and 2 x2 week stints for the Scottish and Italian matches.

Deadline for signing up to the 14 team league is today and it appears everyone is in including the Italians

[blockhead]

That would be 19 regular seasons games then. 3 less than current set up and either 9 or 10 home games. What would the play-offs look like? qf/sf,final?
You'd imagine that Munster and Leinster would not be in the same group, so only 1 game in regular season, RSA and Italian split too. A lot of lost derbies.

[rooster]

That would be 19 regular seasons games then. 3 less than current set up and either 9 or 10 home games. What would the play-offs look like? qf/sf,final?
You'd imagine that Munster and Leinster would not be in the same group, so only 1 game in regular season, RSA and Italian split too. A lot of lost derbies.

That's why I side with the view it will stay as a straight home and away competition, there are all the country derby matches even the Italians have got into their derby matches.

[simonokeeffe]

That would be 19 regular seasons games then. 3 less than current set up and either 9 or 10 home games. What would the play-offs look like? qf/sf,final?
You'd imagine that Munster and Leinster would not be in the same group, so only 1 game in regular season, RSA and Italian split too. A lot of lost derbies.

Full whack of derbies would be kept for Irish and Welsh IMO in conferences. One of the 2 club nations to be shafted there, maybe on rotating annual basis

[paddyor]

From Planet rugby on TV revenue.

I was wondering about this myself. These are probably the smallest and weakest teams in SA in terms of support, playing numbers and financial clout. Any idea how much they added to the Soup TV deal when they joined?

That question can't really be answered. First of all there is no Soup TV deal, the SANZAAR TV deal(s) cover both Soup and RC rugby with no attempt to apportion. Secondly, it's the national unions which form SANZAAR, not the franchises. Each union gets an appropriate share of proceeds and decide themselves how much of that flows back to the franchises, how much to the non-franchise provinces, and the other expenses like Springboks, 7's, women, academies and so on. It is just part of the overall union revenue stream.

Now, SANZAAR are obviously hoping that they can keep the same TV revenue coming in. Australia's strategy is that they use that to fund one less team, so 25% more per team. SA's strategy (now) is to add a revenue stream and continue to fund the same numbers, with more money.

[rooster]

Suppose nothing will be confirmed before 7th July when the announcement of which teams are scrapped from Super Rugby

[blockhead]

That would be 19 regular seasons games then. 3 less than current set up and either 9 or 10 home games. What would the play-offs look like? qf/sf,final?
You'd imagine that Munster and Leinster would not be in the same group, so only 1 game in regular season, RSA and Italian split too. A lot of lost derbies.

Full whack of derbies would be kept for Irish and Welsh IMO in conferences. One of the 2 club nations to be shafted there, maybe on rotating annual basis

So then an conferance of 4 Irish, 1 jocks, 1 italians and 1 RSA team. Still a loss of 1 or 2 home games in regular season. How would that affect our RDS commitment? No more Aviva games V Munster?

[irishjonny]

Any more talk about Zebre moving to Rome? that'd be a much nicer away trip