Munster 2016-2017

[johng]

McCarthy
Triggs
Toner
Nagle
Kearney
Moloney
And I think Thornbury

David O'Connor and Irish U20s Captain James Ryan in the Academy.....

I think we'll scrape by.

Good to see so many decent 2nd rows in both provinces though.

[offshorerules]

Bad news on the injuries front thought being reported today for Munster.

[cormac]

Collie O'Shea training with Munster: http://www.sportsfile.com/id/1195841/

Munster running very, very heavy in the second row this season with eight locks in the senior panel. In order of appearances they are:
1. Donnacha Ryan [32 y.o., 146 Munster caps]
2. Billy Holland [31 y.o.*, 131 Munster caps]
3. Dave Foley [28 y.o., 74 Munster caps]
4. Mark Chisholm [34 y.o., 18 Munster caps]/NIE
5. John Madigan [21 y.o., 1 Munster cap]
6. Sean McCarthy [23 y.o., 1 Munster cap]
7. Darren O'Shea [23 y.o., 0 Munster caps]
8. Jean Kleyn [22 y.o., 0 Munster caps]/NIQ

That looks like the sort of squad make-up that Perpignan of 2008-2012 would have gone for!

It doesn't make much sense to me on the macro side of things : while the IRFU are footing the bill for Donnacha Ryan for another season [source: http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/27971.php#.V6Jjx1fovq0 ], all the other seven lads have to be paid by Munster. That's eight players fighting for two starting jerseys ... a nice situation if you can afford it, but I don't think that Munster are in that situation at the moment.

Ryan is now third choice [at best] in the Irish stakes – behind Toner and Henderson, and maybe behind Dillane too. There's a decent possibility he'll be with Munster for the majority of the season. If so, the balance of probabilities would suggest that it's Ryan +1, i.e. seven players competing for one jersey. Strange squad composition.

*Today, happy birthday Billy!

Chisholm still hasn't resumed training since he picked up his last concussion back in March. I assume Kleyn is a direct replacement for him.

[simonokeeffe]

Bad news on the injuries front thought being reported today for Munster.

Expand please

[offshorerules]

Bad news on the injuries front thought being reported today for Munster.

Expand please

Linky instead? Though since I saw this I've heard that Tyler is training.

[offshorerules]

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/mark-chisholm ... ion/341603

Oops forgot linky.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Heard POM was struggling alright. That comment about him maybe not getting back to form until next season sounds like speculative nonsense but I suspect the part about him not being back any time soon is true. I'd have him as the Ireland captain if he was fit and firing.

[Dave Cahill]

It is balls.ie though, that has to be factored in.

[simonokeeffe]

Cheers, balls have gone full tabloid as usual, no chance of signings. TB expected to play second warmup so they have ten cover

POM expected back round 2 or 3 wuth Saili

Chisholm still has symptoms! so he really should retire and Munster should encourage him to do so, no point him and or club risking his health for one last partial season

[offshorerules]

POM would be their greatest asset if he were to recover and I agree with LRIP I would have him as Ireland captain if he was fit too.

[Dave Cahill]

POM would be their greatest asset if he were to recover and I agree with LRIP I would have him as Ireland captain if he was fit too.

Based on what? His astonishing success with Munster? Is he even guaranteed a spot in the Irish 23 these days? Stander and Ruddock have grabbed the opportunity his absence presented with both hands, and both can, nominally at least, cover other positions.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I would have had Rhys ahead of him until he really stepped up over the last couple of years. He's been a real go to man for us and to my mind has a great presence. Also a huge fan of how he deals with the media, carries himself like an Ireland captain IMO. People will disagree because of the "angry face" stuff but I've never bought into that. His performance against France before he got injured was absolutely world class. I think his lineout work puts him ahead of Stander regardless of everything else, and also think that Stander should move to 8 for Ireland as Jamie ages. Admittedly Jamie had a great season but it's still hard to see him maintaining that level of performance for too much longer.

To my mind he's the only player we have in the mould of POC or Bod who can really fire up a team through their performance. That might not be everyone's cup of tea for a captain but for me he'd be perfect.

[wixfjord]

I would have had Rhys ahead of him until he really stepped up over the last couple of years. He's been a real go to man for us and to my mind has a great presence. Also a huge fan of how he deals with the media, carries himself like an Ireland captain IMO. People will disagree because of the "angry face" stuff but I've never bought into that. His performance against France before he got injured was absolutely world class. I think his lineout work puts him ahead of Stander regardless of everything else, and also think that Stander should move to 8 for Ireland as Jamie ages. Admittedly Jamie had a great season but it's still hard to see him maintaining that level of performance for too much longer.

To my mind he's the only player we have in the mould of POC or Bod who can really fire up a team through their performance. That might not be everyone's cup of tea for a captain but for me he'd be perfect.

I'd agree with all of that. Next Irish captain for me. While he's not as physically imposing as Rhys or as strong a carrier as Stander, as you say he seems to bring a leadership quality along with lineout and groundhog abilities that suit our style. Some of his Irish performances have been pure class and with SOB out, we need that bit of dog too, albeit he can look silly at times.

[offshorerules]

POM would be their greatest asset if he were to recover and I agree with LRIP I would have him as Ireland captain if he was fit too.

Based on what? His astonishing success with Munster? Is he even guaranteed a spot in the Irish 23 these days? Stander and Ruddock have grabbed the opportunity his absence presented with both hands, and both can, nominally at least, cover other positions.

I just think he's quality. But if you want specifics I think his work in defence is 100% better than Stander's and given our style of play under Joe that gives him the nod for me.

[offshorerules]

Also I'm a big fan of Ruddock but I don't rate him as highly as POM. Ruddock's defensive work is solid but he's a good pro but he's not world class whereas I think POM is.

[Dave Cahill]

I just think he's quality. But if you want specifics I think his work in defence is 100% better than Stander's and given our style of play under Joe that gives him the nod for me.

I would agree with that in general and if Ireland were going into this six nations playing the way we did during the previous three, then that'd be fine, but I think that Joe is moving our style of play forward more towards the kind of game we saw in SA and that Leinster played under him during his first two years in charge - not sure that POM is the man for that.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Surely his mobility and range of skills makes him the perfect man for that?

[Dave Cahill]

Surely his mobility and range of skills makes him the perfect man for that?

I would say that he has a set of physical attributes that a sensible coach can exploit rather than a range of skills. Of the, say, half dozen or more other back rows in or around the squad (e.g. Heaslip, SOB, CJ, Henry, vdF, TOD, Ruddock) he is the least suited to a skills based game. He has never struck me as particularly skilled player. Now, this is in the context of the best players around, hes certainly no David Corkery or Denis Leamy, but he's no Anthony Foley either. Within a certain set of parameters he's a excellent player - one of the very best on the championship winning sides for example. But my feeling is that Ireland are going to expand those parameters beyond his design capabilities.

[simonokeeffe]

If all our backrowers are fit the balance and composition are interesting and I cant see any perfect plausible scenario

(Dillane for Henderson already a preplanned sub)

IMO Stander for POM should be preplanned sub. I'd rule Heaslip out as I dont like the idea of POM AND SOB being pre ordained to play the 80

That sub weakens lineout but you take SOB off then we suffer massively at breakdown; clampdown on elbows on ground/not supporting weight had a big bad impact on POM

Most balanced combo would be whatever 8 you want between SOB & POM with JVDF/TOD on bench but am not sure the internet could handle Hesalip or Stander missing out completely

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Surely his mobility and range of skills makes him the perfect man for that?

I would say that he has a set of physical attributes that a sensible coach can exploit rather than a range of skills. Of the, say, half dozen or more other back rows in or around the squad (e.g. Heaslip, SOB, CJ, Henry, vdF, TOD, Ruddock) he is the least suited to a skills based game. He has never struck me as particularly skilled player. Now, this is in the context of the best players around, hes certainly no David Corkery or Denis Leamy, but he's no Anthony Foley either. Within a certain set of parameters he's a excellent player - one of the very best on the championship winning sides for example. But my feeling is that Ireland are going to expand those parameters beyond his design capabilities.

I'd totally disagree with that, and the faster the game the more he's suited to it, which is the way the game is going and the way we tried to play in SA.