Pro 14 - General Thread

Forum for the discussion of other Teams and Clubs as well as General Rugby chat.

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Dave Cahill
Gordon D'Arcy
Posts: 22752
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 4:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business
Contact:

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Dave Cahill »

blockhead wrote:From Rugbypass
'We will look for black rugby brains' - race row rocks Southern Kings
The Southern Kings have started an internal disciplinary process, following a racist rant by board member Bantwini Matika – reports Rugby 365
Matika, in Facebook posts that elicited angry reactions, accused former Springbok coach Nick Mallett and television analyst of being a racist.
This follows after the Port Elizabeth-based franchise revealed that Mallett will be part of the panel that will find a replacement for axed coach Deon Davids.
In his Facebook post, Matika said the Kings don’t need help from “Racist Mallet[t]” to find a suitable coach for the team.
“Mallet[t] is not suitable to help us and look for a coach who will be dedicated to build a totally transformed Kings team,” he said in his rant.
“Mallet[t] will never support our transformation agenda and therefore is ill-equipped to choose an appropriate coach for the Kings.”
Video Spacer
In a separate post, using a vile expletive, he said he is happy to confront ‘institutionalised racism’ in rugby.
Kings board Chairman Loyiso Dotwana said the series of Facebook posts from Matika is “completely unacceptable” and do not represent the views or position of the board of the Southern Kings.
“We have already initiated a process to deal with this unfortunate incident internally,” Dotwana said.
He added that they support Mallett’s participation in the panel that will find a coach to replace Davids.
“We have previously communicated that the Kings are looking to appoint a new head coach. As a result, the board is assembling a reputable panel of experts to assist in the interviewing of prospective candidates for the position.
“However, this panel has not yet been finalised, but it must be pointed out that it will be chaired by the Chairman of the board.
“We believe that Nick Mallet has the right expertise to assist us in selecting a coach who will help build a professional and competitive rugby team for the future.
“The Kings are the first black-owned rugby franchise in South Africa and, as such, are fully committed to the transformation of the sport in the country.”
The Southern Kings recently advertised their head coach position after it was announced that Davids, who had been at the helm since 2016, departed by “mutual agreement”.
The Port Elizabeth media sees Matika’s racist rant as part of a power struggle.
Matika also accused Kings Dotwana of not knowing rugby and relying on what he said were white liberal brains to help him.
Matika, who is also EP Rugby Union deputy president, lashed out at the Southern Kings owners because, as a board member, he had not been consulted about Mallett and had read about his involvement in the newspaper.
“We are testing whether the EP Rugby Union, as a minority shareholder, is significant or insignificant,” Matika said in an interview with the Port Elizabeth-based Herald newspaper.
“This is a test case.”
The new owners, called the Greatest Rugby Company in the Whole Wide World, have a 74 percent share and the EPRU 26 percent in the Pro14 franchise.
“After a number of decisions taken by the new owners, we realised this was not what we had been expecting. This was a different animal, but under the name of a black consortium,” Matika told the Herald.
“The first strategic appointment was a white man by the name of Robbie Kempson.
“We debated around that in the board and we were not happy.
“We raised reasons and put up proper arguments that this was not right.
“We challenged this but we were bulldozed because they knew what they wanted.
“He was head-hunted.
“But we said maybe things are going to get better and let’s accept Robbie and all work together.
“Then, in another strategic position, white lady [Leigh Heard] who comes from the Sharks was appointed as chief operating officer. Those were two crucial appointments which demonstrated clearly that we are not moving in the right direction.
“Robbie is the man who is influencing our decision-makers and leaders and they listen to Robbie only.
“We had to fight that.
“I personally know that the chairman of the board, Loyiso Dotwana, does not know about rugby.
“He needed brains to help him about rugby.
“Unfortunately for him, he relies on white liberal brains to support him and we are contesting that.
“I am making sure that when he gets a white voice in the left ear he must get a black voice on the right.
“But it is difficult for us because there is Rory Stear [deputy chair] in one ear and Robbie Kempson in the other ear.
“So we have to shout [to get] attention as a black voice and we are sick and tired of that.
“The bad thing was the way the black coaches, Deon Davids and Chumani Booi, were treated by this franchise – especially Deon, who worked against all odds.
“The last straw was reading that Nick Mallett was here in Port Elizabeth.
“The chairperson has my phone number, but I did not have a clue about that.
“I want to make sure as a board member [that] the committee that will be established to recruit is 70% black and 30% white.
“We will look for black rugby brains – we do have it here in the Eastern Cape.”
It turns out they weren't and SARU have retaken their 74% stake
I have Bumbleflex

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6129
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 2:20 pm
Location: Bastardstown, Co. Wexford

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

Dave Cahill wrote:
blockhead wrote:From Rugbypass
'We will look for black rugby brains' - race row rocks Southern Kings
The Southern Kings have started an internal disciplinary process, following a racist rant by board member Bantwini Matika – reports Rugby 365
Matika, in Facebook posts that elicited angry reactions, accused former Springbok coach Nick Mallett and television analyst of being a racist.
This follows after the Port Elizabeth-based franchise revealed that Mallett will be part of the panel that will find a replacement for axed coach Deon Davids.
In his Facebook post, Matika said the Kings don’t need help from “Racist Mallet[t]” to find a suitable coach for the team.
“Mallet[t] is not suitable to help us and look for a coach who will be dedicated to build a totally transformed Kings team,” he said in his rant.
“Mallet[t] will never support our transformation agenda and therefore is ill-equipped to choose an appropriate coach for the Kings.”
Video Spacer
In a separate post, using a vile expletive, he said he is happy to confront ‘institutionalised racism’ in rugby.
Kings board Chairman Loyiso Dotwana said the series of Facebook posts from Matika is “completely unacceptable” and do not represent the views or position of the board of the Southern Kings.
“We have already initiated a process to deal with this unfortunate incident internally,” Dotwana said.
He added that they support Mallett’s participation in the panel that will find a coach to replace Davids.
“We have previously communicated that the Kings are looking to appoint a new head coach. As a result, the board is assembling a reputable panel of experts to assist in the interviewing of prospective candidates for the position.
“However, this panel has not yet been finalised, but it must be pointed out that it will be chaired by the Chairman of the board.
“We believe that Nick Mallet has the right expertise to assist us in selecting a coach who will help build a professional and competitive rugby team for the future.
“The Kings are the first black-owned rugby franchise in South Africa and, as such, are fully committed to the transformation of the sport in the country.”
The Southern Kings recently advertised their head coach position after it was announced that Davids, who had been at the helm since 2016, departed by “mutual agreement”.
The Port Elizabeth media sees Matika’s racist rant as part of a power struggle.
Matika also accused Kings Dotwana of not knowing rugby and relying on what he said were white liberal brains to help him.
Matika, who is also EP Rugby Union deputy president, lashed out at the Southern Kings owners because, as a board member, he had not been consulted about Mallett and had read about his involvement in the newspaper.
“We are testing whether the EP Rugby Union, as a minority shareholder, is significant or insignificant,” Matika said in an interview with the Port Elizabeth-based Herald newspaper.
“This is a test case.”
The new owners, called the Greatest Rugby Company in the Whole Wide World, have a 74 percent share and the EPRU 26 percent in the Pro14 franchise.
“After a number of decisions taken by the new owners, we realised this was not what we had been expecting. This was a different animal, but under the name of a black consortium,” Matika told the Herald.
“The first strategic appointment was a white man by the name of Robbie Kempson.
“We debated around that in the board and we were not happy.
“We raised reasons and put up proper arguments that this was not right.
“We challenged this but we were bulldozed because they knew what they wanted.
“He was head-hunted.
“But we said maybe things are going to get better and let’s accept Robbie and all work together.
“Then, in another strategic position, white lady [Leigh Heard] who comes from the Sharks was appointed as chief operating officer. Those were two crucial appointments which demonstrated clearly that we are not moving in the right direction.
“Robbie is the man who is influencing our decision-makers and leaders and they listen to Robbie only.
“We had to fight that.
“I personally know that the chairman of the board, Loyiso Dotwana, does not know about rugby.
“He needed brains to help him about rugby.
“Unfortunately for him, he relies on white liberal brains to support him and we are contesting that.
“I am making sure that when he gets a white voice in the left ear he must get a black voice on the right.
“But it is difficult for us because there is Rory Stear [deputy chair] in one ear and Robbie Kempson in the other ear.
“So we have to shout [to get] attention as a black voice and we are sick and tired of that.
“The bad thing was the way the black coaches, Deon Davids and Chumani Booi, were treated by this franchise – especially Deon, who worked against all odds.
“The last straw was reading that Nick Mallett was here in Port Elizabeth.
“The chairperson has my phone number, but I did not have a clue about that.
“I want to make sure as a board member [that] the committee that will be established to recruit is 70% black and 30% white.
“We will look for black rugby brains – we do have it here in the Eastern Cape.”
It turns out they weren't and SARU have retaken their 74% stake
A bit more detail.
SA Rugby added that all staff and players of the franchise have been retained, with Rassie Erasmus, South Africa’s director of rugby, liaising with Kings director of rugby and interim coach, Robbie Kempson, on immediate team needs.

“I cannot stress enough how reluctant we are to resume control of the Isuzu Southern Kings,” said Mr Mark Alexander, president of SA Rugby.

“It is our last resort and we are keen to explore ways to return to the shareholding to another’s hands, in conjunction with the EPRU, the minority shareholder, who have given the required approval to the decision.

“The next step is to appoint a new board to oversee the franchise’s affairs and ensure the team is match ready for when we are able to resume playing.”

SA Rugby has appointed a finance team to work with franchise administrators on ensuring salary payments are made and business needs are addressed.

The decision ensures the Isuzu Southern Kings will participate in PRO14, as well as any other competitions that may be established within the constraints of the Covid-19 pandemic lockdown.

“This was a decision we took with extreme reluctance and after allowing GRC considerable lee-way in which to meet the contractual commitments they made on the acquisition of the shareholding,” said Mr Alexander.

“We appreciated the vision and intentions of the GRC but unfortunately we are operating in an unforgiving business environment.”

SA Rugby previously stepped in to help the franchise in November 2015, taking control of the Kings when EPRU ran into financial trouble.

A decision on whether an administrator needed to be additionally appointed is due to be taken in the coming days.
Massive stadium and fup all else. Shame
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6129
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 2:20 pm
Location: Bastardstown, Co. Wexford

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

Leone Nakarawa signs a 1 year deal with the Warriors.
Great news for them and the Pro14.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6129
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 2:20 pm
Location: Bastardstown, Co. Wexford

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

Brock James named new Ospreys attack coach
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

neill_m
Mullet
Posts: 1041
Joined: May 1st, 2014, 12:39 pm

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by neill_m »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-prov ... 20-season/

SEPTEMBER 5: Winner Conference A v Runner-up Conference B, Winner Conference B v Runner-up Conference A.
SEPTEMBER 12: European quarter-finals.
SEPTEMBER 19: PRO14 final.
SEPTEMBER 26: European semi-finals.

Only two more pro14 rounds will be played so it is likely to be Leinster V Munster, Ulster V Edinburgh in the semis.

Really short turn around for both ulster and leinster for the Heino quarters and semis if we get through.
Confirmed this week that the Heineken QF are the weekend of Sep 18-20, Pro 14 Final pencilled for Sept 12.

User avatar
John23
Enlightened
Posts: 802
Joined: January 15th, 2008, 3:05 pm

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by John23 »

Not sure where to post this. If and when the Government relax and ease restrictions in relation to large gatherings/crowds in the coming months. Also seeing that the GAA have rescheduled their entire season. How much of an impact will these factors have on attendances for the provinces and the IRFU?

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
“Somedays you're the pigeon, somedays you're the statue.”

User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2435
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 11:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

John23 wrote:Not sure where to post this. If and when the Government relax and ease restrictions in relation to large gatherings/crowds in the coming months. Also seeing that the GAA have rescheduled their entire season. How much of an impact will these factors have on attendances for the provinces and the IRFU?

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
You’d have to layer in communion season before answering that one I’d say

User avatar
Xanthippe
Brian O'Driscoll
Posts: 3775
Joined: September 5th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Xanthippe »

What happens with the new players signed for next season - will they be allowed to play in the interpro/derby games and playoffs for this season?
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster

#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE



I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6034
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by wixfjord »

Xanthippe wrote:What happens with the new players signed for next season - will they be allowed to play in the interpro/derby games and playoffs for this season?
Yep they are allowed. Snyman & De Allende both avail for Munster for example.

User avatar
Xanthippe
Brian O'Driscoll
Posts: 3775
Joined: September 5th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Xanthippe »

wixfjord wrote:
Xanthippe wrote:What happens with the new players signed for next season - will they be allowed to play in the interpro/derby games and playoffs for this season?
Yep they are allowed. Snyman & De Allende both avail for Munster for example.
This was the rule for previous seasons but hasn't been updated since 2017/18 season
Pro14 wrote:
6.5 No player is eligible to play for a Team in the Guinness PRO14 if he transfers or is registered after the 19 March 2018 during the relevant season (although there is an exception for under 18 players in certain circumstances).

https://www.pro14.rugby/about/competition-rules
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster

#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE



I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6034
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by wixfjord »


User avatar
Xanthippe
Brian O'Driscoll
Posts: 3775
Joined: September 5th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Xanthippe »

Thanks - I seem to have completely missed that article and any mention of them being allowed to play
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster

#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE



I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6129
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 2:20 pm
Location: Bastardstown, Co. Wexford

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

More Pro14 rumours, but this one would be very interesting if true.
From Rapport an Afrikaans newspaper
The Cheetahs and Southern Kings to be replaced by the Stormers, Bulls, Sharks and Lions in a Pro16 tournament as soon as next season 2020/21.
CVC could be behind this, would make sense to them, maybe this was part of the deal all along. Also you'd have to think that these big saffer teams will be allowed into the Heino.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

User avatar
Dave Cahill
Gordon D'Arcy
Posts: 22752
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 4:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business
Contact:

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Dave Cahill »

SARU said earlier today that there will be no changes to their participation in either Super Rugby or the Pro14 until their current participation agreements expire at the end of next (20-21) season
I have Bumbleflex

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6129
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 2:20 pm
Location: Bastardstown, Co. Wexford

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by blockhead »

From the Rugby Paper
PRO14 broadcaster Premier Sports ditch core production partner
Posted on 13th July 2020
THE PRO14’s main broadcaster, Premier Sports, have cancelled their contract with production company Sunset+Vine with immediate effect as they feel the pain of rugby’s cash crisis.

It raises questions over whether Premier Sports will be retained by the PRO14 when their contract runs out at the end of next season.

Subscription channel Premier Sports took over the PRO14’s broadcasting rights for the 2018/19 campaign on a three-year deal, committing to showing every game live.

In their second season the company have seen their revenues hit hard after the coronavirus pandemic led to the indefinite suspension of all rugby in March.

Premier Sports have used renowned production specialists Sunset+Vine to produce PRO14 coverage in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Premier will now take their production of PRO14 games in house in order to save money and want to continue working with the PRO14 beyond the length of their current deal.

A spokesperson for Premier Sports said: “The team at Sunset+Vine have been brilliant throughout our time working with them, but a decision has been taken to move in a different business direction and we are looking forward to continuing producing and broadcasting the PRO14.”

A Sunset+Vine spokesman said: “I can confirm Premier Sports have terminated this contract for force majeure.” The PRO14 did not respond when contacted for comment.

The cancellation of Sunset+Vine’s contract does not impact the production of PRO14 games in the Republic of Ireland as they are done by Eir Sport.

But with action returning following lockdown on August 22 with a series of derby matches, Premier’s financial situation has undoubtedly been hit.

It could leave the door open for other companies – most notably the BBC
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

User avatar
dropkick
Mullet
Posts: 1737
Joined: January 2nd, 2007, 1:27 am
Location: Cork

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by dropkick »

blockhead wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 4:38 pm
More Pro14 rumours, but this one would be very interesting if true.
From Rapport an Afrikaans newspaper
The Cheetahs and Southern Kings to be replaced by the Stormers, Bulls, Sharks and Lions in a Pro16 tournament as soon as next season 2020/21.
CVC could be behind this, would make sense to them, maybe this was part of the deal all along. Also you'd have to think that these big saffer teams will be allowed into the Heino.

It would be great for irish rugby if the top SA sides joined. Higher pro14 standards would be great for the national team because theres a hell of a jump going from Kings, Dragons etc to international rugby.


Ideally I'd prefer a competition that doesn't have teams thousands of miles away but that ship has sailed for the foreseeable future. That said, if the South African fans dont get behind it, it might not last long.

User avatar
Dave Cahill
Gordon D'Arcy
Posts: 22752
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 4:32 pm
Location: None of your damn business
Contact:

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by Dave Cahill »

dropkick wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 9:51 am
blockhead wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 4:38 pm
More Pro14 rumours, but this one would be very interesting if true.
From Rapport an Afrikaans newspaper
The Cheetahs and Southern Kings to be replaced by the Stormers, Bulls, Sharks and Lions in a Pro16 tournament as soon as next season 2020/21.
CVC could be behind this, would make sense to them, maybe this was part of the deal all along. Also you'd have to think that these big saffer teams will be allowed into the Heino.

It would be great for irish rugby if the top SA sides joined. Higher pro14 standards would be great for the national team because theres a hell of a jump going from Kings, Dragons etc to international rugby.


Ideally I'd prefer a competition that doesn't have teams thousands of miles away but that ship has sailed for the foreseeable future. That said, if the South African fans dont get behind it, it might not last long.
The only way South African teams should be welcomed is if they pull out of Super Rugby. This serving two masters bullshit has gone on too long.
I have Bumbleflex

User avatar
dropkick
Mullet
Posts: 1737
Joined: January 2nd, 2007, 1:27 am
Location: Cork

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by dropkick »

Dave Cahill wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 10:24 am
dropkick wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 9:51 am
blockhead wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 4:38 pm
More Pro14 rumours, but this one would be very interesting if true.
From Rapport an Afrikaans newspaper
The Cheetahs and Southern Kings to be replaced by the Stormers, Bulls, Sharks and Lions in a Pro16 tournament as soon as next season 2020/21.
CVC could be behind this, would make sense to them, maybe this was part of the deal all along. Also you'd have to think that these big saffer teams will be allowed into the Heino.

It would be great for irish rugby if the top SA sides joined. Higher pro14 standards would be great for the national team because theres a hell of a jump going from Kings, Dragons etc to international rugby.


Ideally I'd prefer a competition that doesn't have teams thousands of miles away but that ship has sailed for the foreseeable future. That said, if the South African fans dont get behind it, it might not last long.
The only way South African teams should be welcomed is if they pull out of Super Rugby. This serving two masters bullshit has gone on too long.

It could backfire for them if they're not careful.

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10645
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by ronk »

If they build a solid audience they can do what they like. Competitiveness would help too and might be necessary to get the former.

A big challenge of being in two leagues is the derby element is missing. An interpro series would be 3 leagues though and could be counterproductive.

leinsterforever
Mullet
Posts: 1260
Joined: March 18th, 2015, 2:20 am

Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by leinsterforever »

The format I saw mooted back when there were murmurings about the Pumas and the Griquas joining was four conferences:

Irish conference
Leinster
Munster
Ulster
Connacht

SA conference
Cheetahs
Kings
Pumas
Griquas

Welsh conference
Scarlets
Ospreys
Dragons
Blues

Scottish/Italian conference
Glasgow
Edinburgh
Treviso
Zebre

Play everyone in your conference home and away, and everyone else home or away for an 18-game regular season. Local derbies would be retained, travel for non-SA teams to the Republic limited to two games and travel to Europe for SA teams set at 6 games. It didn't make sense because you'd be getting a reduced number of gates and playing the weaker SA teams and losing out on fixtures against the better teams compared to what we have now.

If it was the four Super Rugby sides in the SA conference it could start to look attractive. Presumably 8 teams would make the play-offs - either top two in each conference or just the top 8 from a global log, which would be better imo.

If the number of league games went down from 21 to 18 the Celtic Cup could take on increased importance for getting developing players gametime.

Post Reply