Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

[leinsterforever]

Munster being a bit sh!t at developing regular internationals has its plusses for Leinster. It means more spaces on the national team for Leinster players to potentially grab and then they can get Test level experience and bring that experience to bear in big matches for Leinster. More Leinster players being away with Ireland because Munster don't have as many internationals also means more young guys can get exposure here during international windows.

[ronk]

If you are right about this, then the decision makers should be expecting their P45s fairly soon.

When have Munster ever fired (including constructive dismissal) coaches over development? Results? Yes. Backstabbing/accent? Yes.

Also, as previous coaches were neglecting player development were they A: talking about how important it was to them. B: telling the truth,

[hugonaut]

Interesting discussion. Just my two cents as a Munster supporter. Firstly I’ve no interest in a parochial interprovincial shitfight. Bores me to tears. They’re all Irish players and the more high quality guys the Irish system produces the better ...

Great post and welcome to the forum.

[Sugary tae]

Munster being a bit sh!t at developing regular internationals has its plusses for Leinster. It means more spaces on the national team for Leinster players to potentially grab and then they can get Test level experience and bring that experience to bear in big matches for Leinster. More Leinster players being away with Ireland because Munster don't have as many internationals also means more young guys can get exposure here during international windows.

A massive nail on the head there with your last point. Also having guys away with Ireland exposes them to the highest levels of training and the highest standards of play. Lifts all boats.

[ronk]

Munster being a bit sh!t at developing regular internationals has its plusses for Leinster. It means more spaces on the national team for Leinster players to potentially grab and then they can get Test level experience and bring that experience to bear in big matches for Leinster. More Leinster players being away with Ireland because Munster don't have as many internationals also means more young guys can get exposure here during international windows.

A massive nail on the head there with your last point. Also having guys away with Ireland exposes them to the highest levels of training and the highest standards of play. Lifts all boats.

That's why Leinster were able to maintain quality depth in key positions for years. International release really makes a difference if you are able to play it right. It's tricky though, it needs buy in from coaches and players.

It shouldn't be a surprise that Cullen and Lancaster have mastered it; an ex-player who a lot of time in and out of the Irish team and an ex-international coach who brought in the big player management system with England.

The other key pillar is player buy in. It broke down a bit due to the MOC era and it started to break down when the unwritten rule about poaching senior players.

But that's a big reason why some Leinster fans were so opposed to the poaching policy change.

[ormond lad]

Fixing = improvement

I’m saying that if the schools and underage development programs didn’t do anything differently (consciously) but the academy players start consistently breaking fully in the Munster 1st team, then standards would improve in the schools.

what percentage of coaches in most of the rugby schools in leinster are teachers as I am quite confident its lot lower than most of the schools in Munster.
And Munster cant just focus on schools. The clubs are where Munster can improve and will do far better from. Plenty more Tom ahearn, Jack o Donoghue, etc.

[The Doc]

Fixing = improvement

I’m saying that if the schools and underage development programs didn’t do anything differently (consciously) but the academy players start consistently breaking fully in the Munster 1st team, then standards would improve in the schools.

what percentage of coaches in most of the rugby schools in leinster are teachers as I am quite confident its lot lower than most of the schools in Munster.
And Munster cant just focus on schools. The clubs are where Munster can improve and will do far better from. Plenty more Tom ahearn, Jack o Donoghue, etc.

Murphy was on a Newstalk podcast last week and gave the details for Newbridge. Off the top of my head I think he listed about 5 or 6 paid non teaching rugby staff with a couple more who were also staff and got an extra stipend.

He also said they were still off the level of a number of schools in Leinster. The Munster schools deliberately don't pay rugby staff according to Quinny on the podcast.

But... I don't think Munster should look to copy the Leinster system. That has been developed for the particular setup in Leinster. There is a very different dynamic and balance between province, schools and clubs in Munster. The academy and junior development needs to be aligned to that.


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[Oldschoolsocks]

Fixing = improvement

I’m saying that if the schools and underage development programs didn’t do anything differently (consciously) but the academy players start consistently breaking fully in the Munster 1st team, then standards would improve in the schools.

what percentage of coaches in most of the rugby schools in leinster are teachers as I am quite confident its lot lower than most of the schools in Munster.
And Munster cant just focus on schools. The clubs are where Munster can improve and will do far better from. Plenty more Tom ahearn, Jack o Donoghue, etc.

Murphy was on a Newstalk podcast last week and gave the details for Newbridge. Off the top of my head I think he listed about 5 or 6 paid non teaching rugby staff with a couple more who were also staff and got an extra stipend.

He also said they were still off the level of a number of schools in Leinster. The Munster schools deliberately don't pay rugby staff according to Quinny on the podcast.

But... I don't think Munster should look to copy the Leinster system. That has been developed for the particular setup in Leinster. There is a very different dynamic and balance between province, schools and clubs in Munster. The academy and junior development needs to be aligned to that.


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Don’t mind Quinny, he knows f%~k all

[blockhead]

Great weekend for fans of Munster.

A great weekend’s entertainment for anyone of the Munster faith!
THURSDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA TWO
20:00 Fans’ Choice - 2006 Semi final win over Leinster
FRIDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
20:00 Munster v Gloucester, 2003 (The “Miracle Match”)
SATURDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
19:00 Munster v Leinster – 2006 HCC Semi Final
21:00 Munster v Biarritz – 2006 HCC Final​
SUNDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
19:00 Munster v Toulouse – 2008 HCC Final

For those watching in Black and White, Munster are wearing red.

[cormac]

Great weekend for fans of Munster.

A great weekend’s entertainment for anyone of the Munster faith!
THURSDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA TWO
20:00 Fans’ Choice - 2006 Semi final win over Leinster
FRIDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
20:00 Munster v Gloucester, 2003 (The “Miracle Match”)
SATURDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
19:00 Munster v Leinster – 2006 HCC Semi Final
21:00 Munster v Biarritz – 2006 HCC Final​
SUNDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
19:00 Munster v Toulouse – 2008 HCC Final

For those watching in Black and White, Munster are wearing red.

No need to watch Virgin Media Sport this weekend then.

[mildlyinterested]

Great weekend for fans of Munster.

A great weekend’s entertainment for anyone of the Munster faith!
THURSDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA TWO
20:00 Fans’ Choice - 2006 Semi final win over Leinster
FRIDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
20:00 Munster v Gloucester, 2003 (The “Miracle Match”)
SATURDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
19:00 Munster v Leinster – 2006 HCC Semi Final
21:00 Munster v Biarritz – 2006 HCC Final​
SUNDAY- VIRGIN MEDIA SPORT
19:00 Munster v Toulouse – 2008 HCC Final

For those watching in Black and White, Munster are wearing red.

Back to the past.

[FLIP]

Airing the semi final from 2006 twice

Nothing from the last decade either

[Up Wexford]

The new Munster CEO Ian Flanagan was commercial director for Leicster City from second division to Prem league title.. a competent guy from a cursory glance of his Linkedin...

[munster#1]

Ciaran Parker and Sean O Connor have signed for Jersey reds.
Good to see them continue in professional rugby.

Given their ages we may well see them back playing for one one of the provinces in the future

[hugonaut]

Ciaran Parker and Sean O Connor have signed for Jersey reds.
Good to see them continue in professional rugby.

Given their ages we may well see them back playing for one one of the provinces in the future

I've seen O'Connor play live a couple of times, and he's a good player. Particularly good lineout player, but just a good all rounder. Not sure if Connacht were in the market for him, but they were certainly in the market for that sort of player – they contracted a similar one in Oisin Dowling.

[munster#1]

Ciaran Parker and Sean O Connor have signed for Jersey reds.
Good to see them continue in professional rugby.

Given their ages we may well see them back playing for one one of the provinces in the future

I've seen O'Connor play live a couple of times, and he's a good player. Particularly good lineout player, but just a good all rounder. Not sure if Connacht were in the market for him, but they were certainly in the market for that sort of player – they contracted a similar one in Oisin Dowling.

I actually thought that O Connor would have come good at Munster, and is probably unfortunate that there are plenty of options coming through or already established.

I do hope, like with any player who doesn’t make it at the first attempt, that we see him in a Munster Jersey again.

[munster#1]

Like most, I have too much time on my hands right now, and have been thinking about how teams will operate going forward.
Munster are probably fortunate to have a relatively large stadium, with the ability to add more seating.

Operating at 50% you are looking at 13k fans, which for most Pro14 games is not far off the average attendance anyway.

Munster were in advanced talks to move games to Pairc Ui Choimh, so they could feasibly move the home HC games there along with the Leinster and Ulster games.
Again, operating at 50% we would have over 22k, meaning that the number of tickets sold would largely be unaffected.
Granted there will be loss of revenue with regards to concessions, and there will be the cost of rent to consider, but would be interesting to see the numbers

[hugonaut]

Like most, I have too much time on my hands right now, and have been thinking about how teams will operate going forward.
Munster are probably fortunate to have a relatively large stadium, with the ability to add more seating.

Operating at 50% you are looking at 13k fans, which for most Pro14 games is not far off the average attendance anyway.

Munster were in advanced talks to move games to Pairc Ui Choimh, so they could feasibly move the home HC games there along with the Leinster and Ulster games.
Again, operating at 50% we would have over 22k, meaning that the number of tickets sold would largely be unaffected.
Granted there will be loss of revenue with regards to concessions, and there will be the cost of rent to consider, but would be interesting to see the numbers

Very good fit to look to Pairc Ui Chaoimh. Cork is underserved in terms of games compared to Limerick, and the new stadium would be a big draw in itself. I think the South Stand in particular looks great. The novelty value of Munster playing a European Cup fixture in Cork after 10+ years would be a big draw. Also, the stadium ran badly over budget, so the GAA would be keen to rent it out during winter and get some money in.

Difficult to know how it would play in the IRFU. I've also heard [anecdotally] that the Cork County Board are very anti-rugby, but maybe that is a thing of the past.

[munster#1]

Like most, I have too much time on my hands right now, and have been thinking about how teams will operate going forward.
Munster are probably fortunate to have a relatively large stadium, with the ability to add more seating.

Operating at 50% you are looking at 13k fans, which for most Pro14 games is not far off the average attendance anyway.

Munster were in advanced talks to move games to Pairc Ui Choimh, so they could feasibly move the home HC games there along with the Leinster and Ulster games.
Again, operating at 50% we would have over 22k, meaning that the number of tickets sold would largely be unaffected.
Granted there will be loss of revenue with regards to concessions, and there will be the cost of rent to consider, but would be interesting to see the numbers

Very good fit to look to Pairc Ui Chaoimh. Cork is underserved in terms of games compared to Limerick, and the new stadium would be a big draw in itself. I think the South Stand in particular looks great. The novelty value of Munster playing a European Cup fixture in Cork after 10+ years would be a big draw. Also, the stadium ran badly over budget, so the GAA would be keen to rent it out during winter and get some money in.

Difficult to know how it would play in the IRFU. I've also heard [anecdotally] that the Cork County Board are very anti-rugby, but maybe that is a thing of the past.

Yes, it would definitely make sense, both in terms of being able to fit in as many fans as possible, and to drum up additional support in Cork.

The cost of the rent would be the deciding factor. With a reduced capacity it might not be financially viable

[sunshiner1]

by hugonaut

I've also heard [anecdotally] that the Cork County Board are very anti-rugby, but maybe that is a thing of the past.

Definitely not a thing of the past.