Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

[Keith]

by hugonaut

I've also heard [anecdotally] that the Cork County Board are very anti-rugby, but maybe that is a thing of the past.

Definitely not a thing of the past.

Lets face it any GAA board would jump at the chance to earn a few more quid.

[munster#1]

If it is a case that the cork county board say no, it’s not like there are no other options.
Limerick’s Gaelic Grounds is only a few hundred metres from TP and has a similar capacity to PUC.

[Up Wexford]

Good to see that even after nearly 20 years the Cork County Board are still finding new and innovative ways to make sh*t of things

[munster#1]

Fairly sure that talks were advanced, so it may well be a runner.
Would be great to turn this negative into a positive, and move games around the province.

Would be great to see the Leinster game in Fitzgerald stadium in Killarney, and the home HC games spread between PUC, thurles and The Gaelic grounds.

[sunshiner1]

by munster#1
Fairly sure that talks were advanced, so it may well be a runner.
Would be great to turn this negative into a positive, and move games around the province.

Would be great to see the Leinster game in Fitzgerald stadium in Killarney, and the home HC games spread between PUC, thurles and The Gaelic grounds.

Would love to have it to happen but the folks I know who are involved in Cork GAA (and want this to happen) tell me that there is a sizeable group who would rather cut their own faces off then let Rugby be played there. I sincerely hope the pragmatics win but I'm doubtful. Really hope I'm wrong though.

[munster#1]

by munster#1
Fairly sure that talks were advanced, so it may well be a runner.
Would be great to turn this negative into a positive, and move games around the province.

Would be great to see the Leinster game in Fitzgerald stadium in Killarney, and the home HC games spread between PUC, thurles and The Gaelic grounds.

Would love to have it to happen but the folks I know who are involved in Cork GAA (and want this to happen) tell me that there is a sizeable group who would rather cut their own faces off then let Rugby be played there. I sincerely hope the pragmatics win but I'm doubtful. Really hope I'm wrong though.

Would be great for all parties. Would be a massive boost for the pockets of the Cork county board who are no doubt under pressure to justify the spend on the stadium and It would allow the people of Cork to witness European rugby on the back yard.

Flip side of this is that it has to be financially viable. I believe that the Cork county board wanted around €300k per game. That would negate the benefit of the bigger stadium, unless you charge in the region of an average of €50 a ticket.

Anyone know how much Leinster pay for the use of the Aviva, and how much the buy out would be to move additional games from the RDS?

[Ruckedtobits]

by munster#1
Fairly sure that talks were advanced, so it may well be a runner.
Would be great to turn this negative into a positive, and move games around the province.

Would be great to see the Leinster game in Fitzgerald stadium in Killarney, and the home HC games spread between PUC, thurles and The Gaelic grounds.

Would love to have it to happen but the folks I know who are involved in Cork GAA (and want this to happen) tell me that there is a sizeable group who would rather cut their own faces off then let Rugby be played there. I sincerely hope the pragmatics win but I'm doubtful. Really hope I'm wrong though.

Would be great for all parties. Would be a massive boost for the pockets of the Cork county board who are no doubt under pressure to justify the spend on the stadium and It would allow the people of Cork to witness European rugby on the back yard.

Flip side of this is that it has to be financially viable. I believe that the Cork county board wanted around €300k per game. That would negate the benefit of the bigger stadium, unless you charge in the region of an average of €50 a ticket.

Anyone know how much Leinster pay for the use of the Aviva, and how much the buy out would be to move additional games from the RDS?

Try €400k for a fully serviced and "dressed" Aviva with security also provided. That's always been the cost and it may now be extended because of enhanced Health & Safety post Covid-19.

[Ruckedtobits]

by munster#1
Fairly sure that talks were advanced, so it may well be a runner.
Would be great to turn this negative into a positive, and move games around the province.

Would be great to see the Leinster game in Fitzgerald stadium in Killarney, and the home HC games spread between PUC, thurles and The Gaelic grounds.

Would love to have it to happen but the folks I know who are involved in Cork GAA (and want this to happen) tell me that there is a sizeable group who would rather cut their own faces off then let Rugby be played there. I sincerely hope the pragmatics win but I'm doubtful. Really hope I'm wrong though.

Would be great for all parties. Would be a massive boost for the pockets of the Cork county board who are no doubt under pressure to justify the spend on the stadium and It would allow the people of Cork to witness European rugby on the back yard.

Flip side of this is that it has to be financially viable. I believe that the Cork county board wanted around €300k per game. That would negate the benefit of the bigger stadium, unless you charge in the region of an average of €50 a ticket.

Anyone know how much Leinster pay for the use of the Aviva, and how much the buy out would be to move additional games from the RDS?

Try €400k for a fully serviced and "dressed" Aviva with security also provided. That's always been the cost and it may now be extended because of enhanced Health & Safety post Covid-19.

[munster#1]

So essentially Leinster would be in the same boat as Munster, where it may not even be an option to move to a bigger stadium due to financial constraints.
I presume that Leinster would have an additional impact of having to pay the RDS compensation for moving additional games?
Would be interesting to see what that figure would be.

[Ruckedtobits]

So essentially Leinster would be in the same boat as Munster, where it may not even be an option to move to a bigger stadium due to financial constraints.
I presume that Leinster would have an additional impact of having to pay the RDS compensation for moving additional games?
Would be interesting to see what that figure would be.

Doubtful, they could give them the JCT Final or Towns Cup Final or an SCT S/F, anyone of which would be comparable to a 'normal' Pro14 game.

[munster#1]

So essentially Leinster would be in the same boat as Munster, where it may not even be an option to move to a bigger stadium due to financial constraints.
I presume that Leinster would have an additional impact of having to pay the RDS compensation for moving additional games?
Would be interesting to see what that figure would be.

Doubtful, they could give them the JCT Final or Towns Cup Final or an SCT S/F, anyone of which would be comparable to a 'normal' Pro14 game.

Really? I haven’t seen the agreement so had just assumed that it had to be Leinster playing there.

Odd that this hasn’t happened before.

[ronk]

There would have been no reason to consider moving to Aviva for 20k fans. The costing may well be much lower than normal.

I don’t think we’ll see heavy demand though. A lot of people will be staying at home.

[Ruckedtobits]

There would have been no reason to consider moving to Aviva for 20k fans. The costing may well be much lower than normal.

I don’t think we’ll see heavy demand though. A lot of people will be staying at home.

We need 33 - 35k crowd to justify going to Aviva. When (if) RDS gets new Stand and we renegotiate the commercial aspects of venue, including Corporate Boxes and all 3rd Party franchises, the number will go to about 42k. Going to Aviva is giving your lunch away, unless it's for Munster or Ulster games. No other Pro14 team travels in fan numbers and for EPCR games you have to give opponents a straight 25% of gate - less nominal exs (not including ground hire).

Leinster have smart money management but IRFU / AVIVA treat them like sh!t, so I am certainly satisfied to stay in RDS with 18.5k and play in front of a passionate knowledgible crowd who spent all match going back & forth to the bar.

[munster#1]

There would have been no reason to consider moving to Aviva for 20k fans. The costing may well be much lower than normal.

I don’t think we’ll see heavy demand though. A lot of people will be staying at home.

We need 33 - 35k crowd to justify going to Aviva. When (if) RDS gets new Stand and we renegotiate the commercial aspects of venue, including Corporate Boxes and all 3rd Party franchises, the number will go to about 42k. Going to Aviva is giving your lunch away, unless it's for Munster or Ulster games. No other Pro14 team travels in fan numbers and for EPCR games you have to give opponents a straight 25% of gate - less nominal exs (not including ground hire).

Leinster have smart money management but IRFU / AVIVA treat them like sh!t, so I am certainly satisfied to stay in RDS with 18.5k and play in front of a passionate knowledgible crowd who spent all match going back & forth to the bar.

Just looking at some of your recent fixtures, and last season you played Ulster, Wasps and Toulouse in the RDS, that is why I assumed that you weren’t allowed to move such games.
I hadn’t realised that it was decided that you wouldn’t be able to draw a big crowd for these games.

I would have assumed, wrongly based on your feedback, that those games would be close to a sell out in the Aviva.

[The Doc]

Just looking at some of your recent fixtures, and last season you played Ulster, Wasps and Toulouse in the RDS, that is why I assumed that you weren’t allowed to move such games.
I hadn’t realised that it was decided that you wouldn’t be able to draw a big crowd for these games.

I would have assumed, wrongly based on your feedback, that those games would be close to a sell out in the Aviva.

I'm sure someone will correct my numbers (given my recent comments)... Leinster are obliged to play all but 2 regular season games in the RDS . They therefore can play one European and usually the Munster game in the aviva. And that only came about because of the increase in the league if I remember correctly



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[munster#1]

Just looking at some of your recent fixtures, and last season you played Ulster, Wasps and Toulouse in the RDS, that is why I assumed that you weren’t allowed to move such games.
I hadn’t realised that it was decided that you wouldn’t be able to draw a big crowd for these games.

I would have assumed, wrongly based on your feedback, that those games would be close to a sell out in the Aviva.

I'm sure someone will correct my numbers (given my recent comments)... Leinster are obliged to play all but 2 regular season games in the RDS . They therefore can play one European and usually the Munster game in the aviva. And that only came about because of the increase in the league if I remember correctly



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That was my thinking also, but from others comments, it appears that they could swap games with other games based on attendances??

[paddyor]

They probably could if they wanted to. But the lease obligations plus the 400k for the Aviva make it unprofitable. I suppose we never needed to as well. Solid off the pitch and successful on it. .

[munster#1]

They probably could if they wanted to. But the lease obligations plus the 400k for the Aviva make it unprofitable. I suppose we never needed to as well. Solid off the pitch and successful on it. .

What are the lease obligations?
Another poster stated that Leinster would merely have to move a schools game to the RDS as a substitute?

[The Doc]

They probably could if they wanted to. But the lease obligations plus the 400k for the Aviva make it unprofitable. I suppose we never needed to as well. Solid off the pitch and successful on it. .

What are the lease obligations?
Another poster stated that Leinster would merely have to move a schools game to the RDS as a substitute?

That isn't accurate as far as I know. Maybe the suggestion was that something could be negotiated given the extraordinary circumstances.

In the normal course of events, Leinster rugby have to play a minimum of (I think) 12 pro games in the RDS. It is Leinster's choice which games they move.

I might be out by 1 in that number... Might be 11. But it is Leinster Rugby games. Not Leinster Branch domestic games.

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[paddyor]

They probably could if they wanted to. But the lease obligations plus the 400k for the Aviva make it unprofitable. I suppose we never needed to as well. Solid off the pitch and successful on it. .

What are the lease obligations?
Another poster stated that Leinster would merely have to move a schools game to the RDS as a substitute?

I don't know exactly but I'll take a stab at it. There's the basic rent which has to be paid anyway. Then there's the insurance rent which you might get a reduction on but you might not. Then there might be other elements of a service charge like water, rates, or waste disposal. On the latter you might get a reduction in general but any fixed element will be distributed across fewer games. Last there's the concessions which AFAIK Leinster get none of that so they'd have to be compensated.

I've no idea about the last part. It seems like the kind of idea that would land you in court.