Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

[ronk]

Fitzgerald and Johnson have done okay, and quickly. Maybe not as noticeable withvthe talent coming the other way.

JvG has done a few things that set off alarm bells. Extending Mathewson and signing McCarthy shows that he wasnt planning on Casey bolting.

He had a low pressure way to ease Casey in during the RWC against weaker opposition and he used Mathewson to the last year allowed. The overreliance on key players is one reason they struggled coming back from the RWC. They threw them all back in at once.

The big name signings have mostly performed, but it's the apparebt thought process behind some smaller extensions and signings that is more troubling. Why sign/extend players and never use them again.

The Irish provincial season is incredibly broken up. The ones who embrace it are the ones who succeed. We got stung by MOC and we learnt from the totally different approach of Leo and the patience.

Munster have some talented young players who will mostly do well. They will have better young players and be better off overall if they take more risks on those players.

Ross Byrne was promoted to 4th choice when 2 outhalves left Leinster, we was 2nd choice in tge academy even. But he started HC games when the 3 ahead of him were injured. That was a big risk at that stage of his development. But you need to take them to get results.

[Sugary tae]

don’t disagree with most of that ronk. Some of the short term extensions have rankled for me. Although Casey was injured/at jwc for a lot of that time I’d preferred if we had given the minutes to McCarthy at the time. I suspected at the time matthewson was kept to get larkhams new game plan going.

Johnston couldn’t stay fit during his time here and the word was his application wasn’t great. With Healy flannery and now Crowley coming behind I think that decision to let him go was correct. Stephen fitz was different. We have a large number of similar level back 3 players....put simply one needed to break away. Best of luck to them of course. I think there needs to be a shape up or ship out level to younger players. If they’re not pushing on redistribute in another province. Leinster really do this well. If you’re a Young squad member and see The likes of loughman or McCarthy have to go elsewhere (and give up dream of being a top player at your home province ) because of Other talent that will push you on to succeed

@johng I really hope we don’t end up like the Cardiff blues. Rumour is they’re potentially going to the wall

[munster#1]

Joey wont be back until September, so will miss the interprovincial matches.

Hopefully we get to see Healy getting some game time.

[ronk]

don’t disagree with most of that ronk. Some of the short term extensions have rankled for me. Although Casey was injured/at jwc for a lot of that time I’d preferred if we had given the minutes to McCarthy at the time. I suspected at the time matthewson was kept to get larkhams new game plan going.

Johnston couldn’t stay fit during his time here and the word was his application wasn’t great. With Healy flannery and now Crowley coming behind I think that decision to let him go was correct. Stephen fitz was different. We have a large number of similar level back 3 players....put simply one needed to break away. Best of luck to them of course. I think there needs to be a shape up or ship out level to younger players. If they’re not pushing on redistribute in another province. Leinster really do this well. If you’re a Young squad member and see The likes of loughman or McCarthy have to go elsewhere (and give up dream of being a top player at your home province ) because of Other talent that will push you on to succeed

@johng I really hope we don’t end up like the Cardiff blues. Rumour is they’re potentially going to the wall

Connor Fitzgerald.

[munster#1]

With the much anticipated return to rugby just around the corner, I have been flicking through clips in youtube.
I am no very excited to see De Allende pull on the red jersey.

He reminds me of a big Darcy, very skilful and powerful at the same time.
Looks to be a fairly no nonsense player, just goes about his job.

Snyman is not too bad either. He has some serious gas for a tall second row.

Munster will not be an easy team to bully next season.

[wixfjord]

Munster being easy too bully isn't the problem though. They've never been easy to bully.

The issues over the last 5 or so years in big games against top teams has been the lack of subtlety in attack and the overr-eliance on Stander/Kilcoyne to carry 20+ times a game.

With Larkham, Carbery and De Allende that's the part that needs to change.

I would hope that De Allende and Farrell are used in a more nuanced way than bashing it up, as both can do other jobs too.

I would also say that Beirne hasn't been well utilised by Munster in an attacking sense.

[Morf]

Munster being easy too bully isn't the problem though. They've never been easy to bully.

The issues over the last 5 or so years in big games against top teams has been the lack of subtlety in attack and the overr-eliance on Stander/Kilcoyne to carry 20+ times a game.

With Larkham, Carbery and De Allende that's the part that needs to change.

I would hope that De Allende and Farrell are used in a more nuanced way than bashing it up, as both can do other jobs too.

I would also say that Beirne hasn't been well utilised by Munster in an attacking sense.

Am I missing something here with De Allende being regarded as a 'ball playing 12'?

I think Munster/Larkham will be putting the ball playing into him rather than the opposite.

[blockhead]

Munster are going to sell the naming rights to TP. About time too says all.
Could we as a group, who see Munster as our 2nd team, offer them some suggestions?
Now, I don't any jiggery pokery here. Serious suggestions only.
"It's for Women.ie Park" and the likes will not be tolerated.

[FLIP]

Munster are going to sell the naming rights to TP. About time too says all.
Could we as a group, who see Munster as our 2nd team, offer them some suggestions?
Now, I don't any jiggery pokery here. Serious suggestions only.
"It's for Women.ie Park" and the likes will not be tolerated.

Haven't they tried before and not found serious enough interest?

If we all chuck in €50 we could name it the Athenry is in Galway Stadium

[hugonaut]

Munster are going to sell the naming rights to TP. About time too says all.

They are under pressure to do it. They are only paying back €100k per year - they'd be paying Thomond off for 65 years at that rate. Under the second restructuring of the loan repayments, the IRFU will get 50% of naming rights under the second restructured payment agreement

"50% of any additional multi-year ticket sales, 50% of any multi-year corporate box sales and 50% of net Thomond Park naming rights income on an annual basis.
The arrangement is to be reviewed on a biennial basis and the Union reserves the right to revert to the strict terms of the Loan Agreement following each review in its absolute discretion and/or in the event of any failure by the Munster Branch IRFU to meet the newly agreed arrangements."

[source: https://d2cx26qpfwuhvu.cloudfront.net/i ... t_1819.pdf , p.47]

[Sugary tae]

They can call it dildo park for all I care as long as it brings In money. Most supporters still call it musgrave but it’s been A good Cash injection. Bills have to be paid!

[ronk]

Munster are going to sell the naming rights to TP. About time too says all.
Could we as a group, who see Munster as our 2nd team, offer them some suggestions?
Now, I don't any jiggery pokery here. Serious suggestions only.
"It's for Women.ie Park" and the likes will not be tolerated.

They had their chance when it was new. Dont know numbers but it was silly money that would have paid off the debt by now. They've been trying for years in better markets than this. They wont be selling the naming rights anytime soon.

[munster#1]

It’s a good sign that Munster are not rushing into any old deal, and that the IRFU have the sense to not demand that they speed up the process.

Supposedly Saracens were getting £2m a year from Allianz, so naming rights can be a lucrative option.
Granted Munster are not Saracens, and the Pro 14 is definitely not the premiership, but if Munster could broker a deal for even half of that then it would go a long way to solving their financial issues.

I like the it’s for women.ie idea, very inclusive, and the travelling lady fans along with our blue recruits would feel most welcome.

[offshorerules]

I wonder if all the troubles they've had with doping has prevented a deal being done?

[blockhead]

Mahlatse ‘Chiliboy’ Ralepelle banned for eight years
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4293443

I wonder if all the troubles they've had with doping has prevented a deal being done?

Doubt it, although they do have strong links to the Saffers, might be a few nervous investors out there.

[Sugary tae]

I find that suggestion humorous tbh lads. I’d suggest there’s no more or less likely to be doping in one province than another. I think it’s very naive to think that There aren’t players doping as much as I hope there aren’t. Be careful about smirking too much.

Regarding grobler I think Munster and irfu tried to pull a fast one. They got caught with donnacha Ryan refusing his contract when they thought it was a banker. They went to the open market and didn’t have the funds to pay the going rate and found grobler, a very handy player at a good age and tried to see could they get him under the media radar. Initial one year deal but with a second 2 year deal already on the table if it worked out. Both Munster and irfu planned it as a poach. A very cheap poach. Wages were supposed to be very low. How in the name of god they thought they’d get away with it is beyond me. It was a constant nagging shiiiteshow on social media all year. Irfu messes up badly. They lowballed Ryan, who’s played the best rugby of his career in France and would definitely have travelled to japan. While Erasmus signed grobler nucifora signs off on all. That’s where the ultimate blame goes in my opinion.

I felt certain sympathy to grobler himself. If it a 2 year ban by the authorities you have to assume He’ll play again. However it wasn’t a good image. A longer ban is far more effective in my opinion.

God knows re Cronin. Only the doc the pharmacist and James himself know the truth. I’m in the medical line myself. Mistakes happen and it would shock you how many people of the same name are present in small town Ireland. On my patient list I counted 22 of the same male name. Is it possible I’d be treating two at the same week...very much so. I don’t know. It’s possible


Regarding the argument about why TP hasn’t got a sponsor by now. I really don’t know. I think there’s a couple of things at play. Firstly the first deal is the big ticket. The millennium stadium is still that In common parlance even with It’s new shiny name. Are the next sponsors going to cough up as much?? TP opened in the midst of a massive recession. Limerick has been hit terribly and was only recovering in the last few years far behind Dublin or even cork. I think they’ve probably over estimated it’s worth. It’s like an old stately home that has an imaginary worth by country gentry in my opinion. The biggest problem is the fact that Munster branch and the irfu as a whole are co guarantors.

[Dave Cahill]

Regarding the argument about why TP hasn’t got a sponsor by now. I really don’t know. I think there’s a couple of things at play. Firstly the first deal is the big ticket. The millennium stadium is still that In common parlance even with It’s new shiny name. Are the next sponsors going to cough up as much?? TP opened in the midst of a massive recession. Limerick has been hit terribly and was only recovering in the last few years far behind Dublin or even cork. I think they’ve probably over estimated it’s worth. It’s like an old stately home that has an imaginary worth by country gentry in my opinion. The biggest problem is the fact that Munster branch and the irfu as a whole are co guarantors.

The reason TP hasn't sold the naming rights is very simple. The Munster Branch made a hames of it. There was no shortage of takers at the price Munster Rugby were looking for when the stadium was being built. They allowed hubris and a vocal minority inside and outside the branch persuade them that they didn't need the money from selling the naming rights. Now they're in a position where they will at best get a third to a quarter of the original value (rights to new builds are more valuable), they will now only get half of even that anyway as the union have taken the other half as part of the deal that restructured the TP debt. When the stadium opened they were about to win their second HEC and were one of Europes big dogs, now they aren't. And all the talk of moving games to PUC won't help either. (though I am super-mega sceptical that this will ever happen)

[Sugary tae]

Ya 100% dave I agree. I never got the “magic” of the name of the ground. Ffs gimme a break. Get some money to pay the man. Irfu needed to crack the whip earlier

[ronk]

The time to sponsor a stadium is when it is new and shiny. Then it might catch

[Dave Cahill]

The time to sponsor a stadium is when it is new and shiny. Then it might catch

Yep, the value falls off a cliff for an established stadium, not just TP, everywhere. The figure I quoted above is the generally accepted rule of thumb