Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

[munster#1]

Jean Kleyn, RG Snyman, CJ Stander, Damien De Allende.. without them where would munster be going into the game in August?

The province has relied utterly on Stander for ball carrying for over half a decade and Kleyn for power at lock. Now calling on two world cup winners to further prop up the province in an effort to remain competitive, along of course with recruits from Leinster(Beirne/Carbery) and England(Haley/Gallagher).

And that doesn't even address the disaster of abandoning developing homegrown tightheads in favour of a south african schoolboy and hawaii poached from the leinster academy.

This has been done to death only a couple of weeks ago.
Leinster built their success on a very similar platform, relying on imports for most of their successful period.
It is only recently that Leinster have started churning out such high numbers of homegrown players.

I suggest you read over this thread if you missed it.

Funny that you have a go at Munster for poaching a player that Leinster has already poached. But ironic really.

[munster#1]

Jean Kleyn, RG Snyman, CJ Stander, Damien De Allende.. without them where would munster be going into the game in August?

The province has relied utterly on Stander for ball carrying for over half a decade and Kleyn for power at lock. Now calling on two world cup winners to further prop up the province in an effort to remain competitive, along of course with recruits from Leinster(Beirne/Carbery) and England(Haley/Gallagher).

And that doesn't even address the disaster of abandoning developing homegrown tightheads in favour of a south african schoolboy and hawaii poached from the leinster academy.

This has been done to death only a couple of weeks ago.
Leinster built their success on a very similar platform, relying on imports for most of their successful period.
It is only recently that Leinster have started churning out such high numbers of homegrown players.

I suggest you read over this thread if you missed it.

Funny that you have a go at Munster for poaching a player that Leinster has already poached. But ironic really.

[munster#1]

I thought munster's strength came from the AIL? thats the legend anyway.

now it comes largely from south africa.

Ha ha, you are a gas man.

...and brutally accurate!

Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.

[blockhead]

Ha ha. There’s always one.

Disregard the achievement of an Irish coach and concentrate on having a pop at Munster.

Do you believe that only players from Munster would develop late?
Your comment would suggest yes.
Do you see a biological difference between Munster folk and the rest of the country??

Aren't you all related?

[mildlyinterested]

Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.

May tell two of Knox, Kleyn, Synman, Stander, Cloete and De Allande that they aren't south african.

Munster wouldn't be competitive if they didn't have their south african core. Look at their homegrown pack ffs.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Holland
5. Wycherley
6. POM
7. TOD
8. JOD

[Up Wexford]

now it comes largely from south africa.[/quote]

Ha ha, you are a gas man.[/quote]

...and brutally accurate![/quote]
Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.[/quote]

Dont forget Cloete. And your coach. And your previous coach. And your previous number 8. But apart from that all the difference makers are proud Munstermen through and through. Apart from Farrell, Carbery, Beirne, Conway and Haley. But apart apart from that, there's a super core of Munster veterans there

[munster#1]

Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.

May tell two of Knox, Kleyn, Synman, Stander, Cloete and De Allande that they aren't south african.

Munster wouldn't be competitive if they didn't have their south african core. Look at their homegrown pack ffs.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Holland
5. Wycherley
6. POM
7. TOD
8. JOD

Forgot about the soon to be Irish Cloete, and Knox is not yet in the senior squad.
Still a bit of a stretch to say that the Munster squad largely comes from South Africa.

I wonder if you were this xenophobia in the late 2000s to mid 2010s or is this a new thing with you?

[Up Wexford]

Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.

May tell two of Knox, Kleyn, Synman, Stander, Cloete and De Allande that they aren't south african.

Munster wouldn't be competitive if they didn't have their south african core. Look at their homegrown pack ffs.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Holland
5. Wycherley
6. POM
7. TOD
8. JOD

If you put Stander in hooker you could almost actually field a better non Munster pack

1.Knox 2. Stander 3. Salanoa 4.Kleyn 5.Snyman 6.Beirne 7.Cloete. Keep Botha and you're golden!

[munster#1]

Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.

May tell two of Knox, Kleyn, Synman, Stander, Cloete and De Allande that they aren't south african.

Munster wouldn't be competitive if they didn't have their south african core. Look at their homegrown pack ffs.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Holland
5. Wycherley
6. POM
7. TOD
8. JOD

If you put Stander in hooker you could almost actually field a better non Munster pack

1.Knox 2. Stander 3. Salanoa 4.Kleyn 5.Snyman 6.Beirne 7.Cloete. Keep Botha and you're golden!

Farrell would be well capable of playing in the back row, no need for Botha.

[mildlyinterested]

Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.

May tell two of Knox, Kleyn, Synman, Stander, Cloete and De Allande that they aren't south african.

Munster wouldn't be competitive if they didn't have their south african core. Look at their homegrown pack ffs.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Holland
5. Wycherley
6. POM
7. TOD
8. JOD

Forgot about the soon to be Irish Cloete, and Knox is not yet in the senior squad.
Still a bit of a stretch to say that the Munster squad largely comes from South Africa.

I wonder if you were this xenophobia in the late 2000s to mid 2010s or is this a new thing with you?

never said it was largely from south africa, I said it relied heavily upon south africans to be competitive and that is a fact. Knox is in the senior squad from this summer.

nothing to do with xenophobia, but by all means keep saying that and deflecting from the reality of munsters situation.

[mildlyinterested]

Not really. Munster have 4 South Africans in their squad of 43/44 players, two of which have never even played for Munster and the other 2 are Irish internationals, so the comment is far from accurate.

Saying that a small percentage comes from South Africa would be accurate.

May tell two of Knox, Kleyn, Synman, Stander, Cloete and De Allande that they aren't south african.

Munster wouldn't be competitive if they didn't have their south african core. Look at their homegrown pack ffs.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Ryan
4. Holland
5. Wycherley
6. POM
7. TOD
8. JOD

If you put Stander in hooker you could almost actually field a better non Munster pack

1.Knox 2. Stander 3. Salanoa 4.Kleyn 5.Snyman 6.Beirne 7.Cloete. Keep Botha and you're golden!

You forgot Rhys Marshall

1. Knox(SA)
2. Marshall(NZ)
3. Salanoa(Leinster)
4. Kleyn(SA)
5. Snyman(SA)
6. Beirne(Leinster)
7. Cloete(SA)
8. Stander(SA)

[munster#1]

[quote="munster#1]
Forgot about the soon to be Irish Cloete, and Knox is not yet in the senior squad.
Still a bit of a stretch to say that the Munster squad largely comes from South Africa.

I wonder if you were this xenophobia in the late 2000s to mid 2010s or is this a new thing with you?

never said it was largely from south africa, I said it relied heavily upon south africans to be competitive and that is a fact. Knox is in the senior squad from this summer.

nothing to do with xenophobia, but by all means keep saying that and deflecting from the reality of munsters situation.[/quote][/quote]
Munster’s situation? They have accumulated a squad which will have very few NIQs in it. Not sure of Salanoa’s situation, but considering him as an NIQ, we will have only 3 in the entire squad.

To say that they should have more Munster born players is the pure definition of xenophobia.

Again I will ask you your thoughts towards most of Leinster’s successes, which relied heavily on imports?

[Up Wexford]

A squad of home grown players with an all star recruits a la Thorne, Elsom, Nacewa, Contepomi and the worlds best coaches seriously impressed by this set up is something to be very proud of in my humble opinion.

And less of the xenophobia jibes. Youre just looking to get a rise from the poster. We all know eventually every internet post descends into Hilterism, lets try to delay that for a bit longer if you please

[munster#1]

A squad of home grown players with an all star recruits a la Thorne, Elsom, Nacewa, Contepomi and the worlds best coaches seriously impressed by this set up is something to be very proud of in my humble opinion.

And less of the xenophobia jibes. Youre just looking to get a rise from the poster. We all know eventually every internet post descends into Hilterism, lets try to delay that for a bit longer if you please

Now that is putting a bit of a positive slant on the truth.
Look back through the comprehensive posts supplied by a couple of your own to see that what Munster have now is no different to what Leinster had for years (bar the silverware of course )

If you do not believe that it is xenophobic for anybody in any walk of life to slate a team/employer for brining in people from outside of their region, then I’m not sure what else to say to you.

[Up Wexford]

Haha im woke but im not a fool pal. Its a forum about sport, unfortunately the whole charade is based on two tribes in opposition. So park it.

[wixfjord]

Which are the Munster players who have missed out due to imports over the last few years?

Munster have definitely under-indexed for probably a decade in terms of bringing through local talent. I think that's changing now.

But is there a whole host of Munster born and bred guys who just didn't get a chance to come through because of them bringing in guys from outside?

I don't believe so.

It's fun having a crack at Munster's current lack of homegrown players, and there's also some truth in it.

But as I've said before in Leinster we do have natural resources that aren't available to the same degree in other provinces.

[munster#1]

Haha im woke but im not a fool pal. Its a forum about sport, unfortunately the whole charade is based on two tribes in opposition. So park it.

If your belief is that you need to apply so tribalism to the sport, which largely sport kind of is tribal by its nature, then that is fine.

You as a Leinster fan have enough ammunition without having to resort to petty digs like you have.
Leinster have been very successful on and off the pitch, much more so than Munster for most of the last decade, try to throw digs over that.

But when you reducing yourself to insulting a team because they have too many South Africans, well then it is more a reflection on you.

I know this is an internet forum, and most things you are saying may be tongue in cheek, but unfortunately when you type things then sarcasm gets lost.
So if you are only joking, then I apologise for misinterpreting your intentions.

[munster#1]

Which are the Munster players who have missed out due to imports over the last few years?

Munster have definitely under-indexed for probably a decade in terms of bringing through local talent. I think that's changing now.

But is there a whole host of Munster born and bred guys who just didn't get a chance to come through because of them bringing in guys from outside?

I don't believe so.

It's fun having a crack at Munster's current lack of homegrown players, and there's also some truth in it.

But as I've said before in Leinster we do have natural resources that aren't available to the same degree in other provinces.

This is a hard thing to quantify, as it would take a player to move to another team and thrive before you could even begin.

It makes sense that players at each of the provinces have been blocked by imports, both IQ and NIQ.
For example, if Isa was not at Leinster, would Conway have a number of Lions caps by now?

On the flip side of that, would the local lads have been as good without the outside signings.
Would earls and Zebo have been as good without the guidance of Howlett.

[ronk]

Which are the Munster players who have missed out due to imports over the last few years?

Munster have definitely under-indexed for probably a decade in terms of bringing through local talent. I think that's changing now.

But is there a whole host of Munster born and bred guys who just didn't get a chance to come through because of them bringing in guys from outside?

I don't believe so.

It's fun having a crack at Munster's current lack of homegrown players, and there's also some truth in it.

But as I've said before in Leinster we do have natural resources that aren't available to the same degree in other provinces.

This is a hard thing to quantify, as it would take a player to move to another team and thrive before you could even begin.

It makes sense that players at each of the provinces have been blocked by imports, both IQ and NIQ.
For example, if Isa was not at Leinster, would Conway have a number of Lions caps by now?

On the flip side of that, would the local lads have been as good without the outside signings.
Would earls and Zebo have been as good without the guidance of Howlett.

It's hard to quantify, unless you judge by results. All players get picked block others who ride the pine. Irish, naturalised or foreign it is all the same. This is the way. The worst blocking happened behind Irish internationals.

Nacewa won 4 HCs and helped develop the backline. He didnt get picked ahead of Conway very often. As Leinster have delved deeper into reliance on their production line the line has accelerated. Heaslip and SOB learnt a lot from 1 year of Elsom.

When Munster actually try properly to develop players they do. They were blocked from signing wingers and (more strictly) props for a few years. What happened, guys languishing in the system made huge progress and earned caps for Ireland. Ryan, Archer and Kilcoyne are overachieving relative to the days when there was fear of playing them and Botha was supposed to be training a new generation. They improved after he left.

I want Munster to improve and to become self-sufficient again. If I just wanted to slag off Munster there would be other ways. Player development should be more than signing the captions of tri nations U20s. If Munster were producing internationals these guys would be a welcome bonus. Instead they are covering the cracks.

[neiliog93]

For many years Munster and their fans engaged in endless self-praise and self-promotion about how strong their 'identity' was, their core of homegrown players, their connection to the fans, their pride and commitment to where they were from and their community etc; if you construct an image for yourself along 'pride and pashun' and identity lines, and endlessly waffle about it, then when you start taking in loads of players from other provinces and abroad, expect some blowback. Toughen up and stop calling people xenophobes for pointing out this obvious hypocrisy.