Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Forum for the discussion of other Teams and Clubs as well as General Rugby chat.

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Morf
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2319
Joined: April 26th, 2011, 2:20 am

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Morf »

blockhead wrote:That's a lot of money for a franchise in debt. I would assume that some of the other foreign legion will be offloaded so as to meet their 6+1 quota?
Munster laughs at your assumptions of how the player pathway and NIQ signings/re-signings should work.

User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Cian Healy
Posts: 13207
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Morf wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:That's some signing, he's arguably the best 12 in the world right now. I feel for Niall Scannell but realistically they need an upgrade in that position.
A lot of meat in that argument.

De Allende has been lucky to have his place for SA for quite a while and has hit a purple patch. Wouldn't be hugely surprising to see him return to par.
Very true, I was never sure about him until the last year or so. He'll still be better than Scannell (the correct one) and Goggin though even if he does regress.

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10536
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by ronk »

blockhead wrote:That's a lot of money for a franchise in debt. I would assume that some of the other foreign legion will be offloaded so as to meet their 6+1 quota?
They have to offload some Irish players before that sort of thing is allowed.

He's a wow signing. They have promising centre options but it's not any more a position of depth than anywhere else.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5895
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by wixfjord »

The De Allende signing would make complete sense. They really need some class there.

Snyman would be strange one. Would mean either Kleyn or Beirne not starting big games.

Theleinsterlad
Bookworm
Posts: 180
Joined: April 22nd, 2018, 7:18 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Theleinsterlad »

Munster has become the Pro14’s version of Montpellier. No sorry don’t even need to stretch that far, they should change their colours to white and recall themselves ULSTER 2.0. Crazy the number of SA players they now have, it hasn’t worked for any other club and is so short sighted. Connaught are now the next best team after Leinster to develop players

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5895
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by wixfjord »

I'd imagine Botha and Bleyendaal will be gone at end of the year, along with Marshall being naturalised which is where the holes for both of these would come from.

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 12770
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 2:10 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Oldschool »

These sort of and amount of signings are bad for the national team.
Has this been slipped in during the national coach regime change??
The new national coach can't be happy about this sort of carry on!
The red army were quick enough to refer to Joe as Blue Joe when he wasn't selecting their liginds but it didn't stop them undermining his need to build depth for the national squad.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

User avatar
johng
Devin Toner
Posts: 18380
Joined: March 23rd, 2009, 11:37 pm
Location: Behind You!!

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by johng »

Neither Munster nor Leinster have any niq players signed past 2020. So both are free to sign 3 players they fancy.

User avatar
johng
Devin Toner
Posts: 18380
Joined: March 23rd, 2009, 11:37 pm
Location: Behind You!!

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by johng »

wixfjord wrote:I'd imagine Botha and Bleyendaal will be gone at end of the year, along with Marshall being naturalised which is where the holes for both of these would come from.
Bleyendaal qualified for Ireland a couple of years ago. Marshall is already iq. Cloete and Lowe qualify in 2020

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 12770
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 2:10 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Oldschool »

johng wrote:Neither Munster nor Leinster have any niq players signed past 2020. So both are free to sign 3 players they fancy.
How many project players has each province and when are they due to come on stream is a related issue/problem.
You read my question before I posted.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

neill_m
Mullet
Posts: 1027
Joined: May 1st, 2014, 12:39 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by neill_m »

Leinster 2 NIE - Tomane, Fardy, 1 NIQ - Lowe IQ'd Oct 2020
Ulster no NIQ, 3 NIE - Faddes, Carter, Coetzee
Connacht 2 NIE - Godwin, Porch, 3 NIQ - Butler Autumn IQ'd 2020, Faainga and Horwitz 2023.
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.
Last edited by neill_m on November 5th, 2019, 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5895
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by wixfjord »

johng wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I'd imagine Botha and Bleyendaal will be gone at end of the year, along with Marshall being naturalised which is where the holes for both of these would come from.
Bleyendaal qualified for Ireland a couple of years ago. Marshall is already iq. Cloete and Lowe qualify in 2020

Sorry yes I meant Mathewson not Bleyendaal!

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6116
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 2:20 pm
Location: Bastardstown, Co. Wexford

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by blockhead »

Don't forget Holloway.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

ChrisUppy
Graduate
Posts: 559
Joined: May 7th, 2011, 9:52 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by ChrisUppy »

neill_m wrote:Leinster 2 NIE - Tomane, Fardy, 1 NIQ - Lowe IQ'd Oct 2020
Ulster no NIQ, 3 NIE - Faddes, Carter, Coetzee
Connacht 2 NIE - Godwin, Porch, 3 NIQ - Butler Autumn IQ'd 2020, Faainga and Horwitz 2023.
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.
Also Matt Moore for Munster, I guess qualifying in 2020

User avatar
cormac
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5805
Joined: May 24th, 2006, 2:05 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by cormac »

ChrisUppy wrote:
neill_m wrote:Leinster 2 NIE - Tomane, Fardy, 1 NIQ - Lowe IQ'd Oct 2020
Ulster no NIQ, 3 NIE - Faddes, Carter, Coetzee
Connacht 2 NIE - Godwin, Porch, 3 NIQ - Butler Autumn IQ'd 2020, Faainga and Horwitz 2023.
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.
Also Matt Moore for Munster, I guess qualifying in 2020
Pretty sure that Matt Moore has left Munster already.
Look out Itchy, he's Irish

leinsterforever
Mullet
Posts: 1254
Joined: March 18th, 2015, 2:20 am

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by leinsterforever »

Yeah, More done gone home.

User avatar
blockhead
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6116
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 2:20 pm
Location: Bastardstown, Co. Wexford

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by blockhead »

Munster Rugby have issued a statement surrounding their 'potential' signings of World Cup winning Springbok pair Damian de Allende and RG Snyman.
"In reference to reports about the province signing the World Cup-winning Springbok duo of Damian de Allende and RG Snyman, Munster Head Coach Johann van Graan said: “We are in advanced discussions with both players, but there are no contracts signed at this stage.
“We are confident there will be a commitment in the future, subject to conditions, but at this stage no contracts have been signed and we have nothing official to confirm.”
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

User avatar
TrapperChamonix
Mullet
Posts: 1242
Joined: November 12th, 2007, 4:27 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by TrapperChamonix »

neill_m wrote:..........
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.
Mathewson is like Brexit the number of extensions he's got.
Never argue with an idiot. Someone looking on may not be able tell the difference

User avatar
Peg Leg
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9461
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 6:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia
Contact:

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Peg Leg »

blockhead wrote:Munster Rugby have issued a statement surrounding their 'potential' signings of World Cup winning Springbok pair Damian de Allende and RG Snyman.
"In reference to reports about the province signing the World Cup-winning Springbok duo of Damian de Allende and RG Snyman, Munster Head Coach Johann van Graan said: “We are in advanced discussions with both players, but there are no contracts signed at this stage.
“We are confident there will be a commitment in the future, subject to conditions, but at this stage no contracts have been signed and we have nothing official to confirm.”
Good agent
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan

joooooe
Knowledgeable
Posts: 432
Joined: April 7th, 2009, 12:04 pm

Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by joooooe »

TrapperChamonix wrote:
neill_m wrote:..........
Munster 2 NIE - Botha, Mathewson, 2 NIQ - Cloete IQ'd Nov 2020, Knox summer/autumn 2020. Holloway is NIQ also, but only signed on a RWC cover contract for 2 months covering Oct and Nov. Mathewson is only signed till start of Dec 19 as RWC cover also.
Mathewson is like Brexit the number of extensions he's got.
Matheson encompasses everything wrong in Munster rugby. Conor Murray was injured at the start of last season so Munster asked for a short term signing and got former All Black Alby Mathewson as short term cover. They could, of course, have chosen to play any of the other three scrum halves they had on their books (Cronin, Hart or Williams) or, God forbid, one of their academy scrum halves (Craig Casey is the bee's knees imo), but, no, they took the money option. Murray came back fit in November but Mathewson hung around in an extended contract and played ahead of the other three 9s, but benched for Murray in big games. Then, his contract was extended to the end of the season, for no reason other than it turns out he's handy. Cronin, meanwhile, is kicking his heels for the A team and not developing (much like Hart and Williams before him). Then, in a short space of time, Munster announce the signing of McCarthy from Leinster, extend Mathewson's contract AGAIN through the World Cup and let Hart and Williams go. In the last regular league match of the season Casey gets 10 mins off the bench after being called up as a late injury replacement.

Munster's 9s are now Murray, Mathewson, Cronin, McCarthy and Casey. The World Cup is over and Mathewson is still there. The justification is that the other scrum halves aren't experienced enough to be relied on for the big games, but they won't get experience if you don't give them game time. Leinster, to make a comparison have McGrath, Gibson-Park, Patterson, O'Sullivan and Osborne all with senior team time and of course brought through McCarthy in the same period. In my opinion none of these are currently "world class" but the solution is not to parachute in a replacement but to work with what you have. When McGrath gets an international call up (c.f. Murray) or McCarthy gets injured you simply whistle for the next cab off the rank.

But Munster feel they have a need to win every match and so compromise long term development in order to do so. The flaw in this system is that they don't win every match, at least not the big knock out games and come the next season they haven't developed the players necessary to go again, so they look to big money signings and the process starts all over again.

Post Reply