Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

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Logorrhea
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Logorrhea »

And all the comments from "real Munster Fans" about the one or two people that ruined it.

The fans that went to see Munster week in week out were the ones that went after Williams and Keatley. Its was a pretty low point in Munsters history and those that remained frequently took it out on those two players in particular.

wixfjord
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by wixfjord »

A little less of the holier than thou attitude please lads. Certain elements of our fanbase (and every fanbase) are no better.

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LeinsterLeader
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by LeinsterLeader »

wixfjord wrote:A little less of the holier than thou attitude please lads. Certain elements of our fanbase (and every fanbase) are no better.
Agreed. I remember some less then savory remarks made about Matt O'Connor (not on here I might add) towards the end of his tenure with us.

The reason I posted the article was just to highlight that sometimes we can tend to forget that these are people as well as players/coaches etc. They have families too and regardless how much they're getting paid they're not getting paid enough to put up with abuse on the street or having to think twice before going out their front door.

Sorry if this is all a bit preachy but it really winds me up ........ and it's Christmas. The time for preaching :D

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Logorrhea
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Logorrhea »

wixfjord wrote:A little less of the holier than thou attitude please lads. Certain elements of our fanbase (and every fanbase) are no better.
So lets white wash it instead? Pretend it didn't happen in case we look bad ourselves? Bollix. Duncan Williams and Keatley were treated like absolute shite down there and it was a lot more than one or two.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by arsebiscuits1 »

Folks I refuse to believe that Williams and Keatley and all the other Munster players who were subjected to abuse is in any way close to being indicative of the majority of their fan base.

We focus on the negatives because we're conditioned to.

Any Munster fan I've met has stuck through their good and bad times and cheered and criticised as paying fans are entitled to.

We can be here on our high horse and pretend that there aren't any Leinster fans that reef abuse at Leinster players on Twitter or Instagram or give our foreign born players a harder time than normal (that definitely has "nothing" to do with their appearance) or skirt over the fella on trial for murder showing up in a Leinster hoody.

The bottom line is all clubs have pests in their fan base who feel it's acceptable to act in a certain way.
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ronk
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by ronk »

The abuse it only part of the story. Williams is INE of the guys who played a lot for Munster but improved late in his career as gametime/coaching at a high level corrected deficiencies.

This points to historical coaching weakness on the fringes of the squad. He was more specific: his skills atrophied during runs of injuries due to neglect. Thankfully he also says that this has been corrected but it bears further comment. A professional sports team can't afford to squander playing capital that way.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by ronk »

arsebiscuits1 wrote:Folks I refuse to believe that Williams and Keatley and all the other Munster players who were subjected to abuse is in any way close to being indicative of the majority of their fan base.

We focus on the negatives because we're conditioned to.

Any Munster fan I've met has stuck through their good and bad times and cheered and criticised as paying fans are entitled to.

We can be here on our high horse and pretend that there aren't any Leinster fans that reef abuse at Leinster players on Twitter or Instagram or give our foreign born players a harder time than normal (that definitely has "nothing" to do with their appearance) or skirt over the fella on trial for murder showing up in a Leinster hoody.

The bottom line is all clubs have pests in their fan base who feel it's acceptable to act in a certain way.
I don't agree. The worst of the fans do the worst of the stuff obviously but there was a lot of hostility towards some of those guys from wider quarters. A lot of people booed Keatley. A lot of people said negative things.

That article is absolutely shocking. It's not one off stuff.

After he was told his contract was not being renewed he was edged out of the squad for the rest of the season. He was brought to the USA for the "A" team tour for kids and sat on the bench along with Hart. That was designed to humiliate.

Williams played over 160 games for Munster and would have passed 200 without injuries early in his career. Compare to the send off Matthewson got. Guys who hit those sorts of appearance numbers, even ones who weren't international stars are seen very very differently in Leinster. Michael Bent would be a loyal player who's a big step down and has had a few bad games. He got a few things from a few quarters but he's popular with fans and his tenacity has endeared himself.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by wixfjord »

Logorrhea wrote:
wixfjord wrote:A little less of the holier than thou attitude please lads. Certain elements of our fanbase (and every fanbase) are no better.
So lets white wash it instead? Pretend it didn't happen in case we look bad ourselves? Bollix. Duncan Williams and Keatley were treated like absolute shite down there and it was a lot more than one or two.
Yep. And similar has happened up here too.

What colour jersey you wear doesn't change the fact that every fan base has a % of utter gobshites.
Last edited by wixfjord on December 24th, 2019, 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by blockhead »

arsebiscuits1 wrote:Folks I refuse to believe that Williams and Keatley and all the other Munster players who were subjected to abuse is in any way close to being indicative of the majority of their fan base.

We focus on the negatives because we're conditioned to.

Any Munster fan I've met has stuck through their good and bad times and cheered and criticised as paying fans are entitled to.

We can be here on our high horse and pretend that there aren't any Leinster fans that reef abuse at Leinster players on Twitter or Instagram or give our foreign born players a harder time than normal (that definitely has "nothing" to do with their appearance) or skirt over the fella on trial for murder showing up in a Leinster hoody.

The bottom line is all clubs have pests in their fan base who feel it's acceptable to act in a certain way.
WTF Man!!!
There is no correlation between fans booing their own players and the heinous murder of an innocent women.
Do you honestly think we should have discussed this at the time on this forum?
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by arsebiscuits1 »

ronk wrote:
arsebiscuits1 wrote:Folks I refuse to believe that Williams and Keatley and all the other Munster players who were subjected to abuse is in any way close to being indicative of the majority of their fan base.

We focus on the negatives because we're conditioned to.

Any Munster fan I've met has stuck through their good and bad times and cheered and criticised as paying fans are entitled to.

We can be here on our high horse and pretend that there aren't any Leinster fans that reef abuse at Leinster players on Twitter or Instagram or give our foreign born players a harder time than normal (that definitely has "nothing" to do with their appearance) or skirt over the fella on trial for murder showing up in a Leinster hoody.

The bottom line is all clubs have pests in their fan base who feel it's acceptable to act in a certain way.
I don't agree. The worst of the fans do the worst of the stuff obviously but there was a lot of hostility towards some of those guys from wider quarters. A lot of people booed Keatley. A lot of people said negative things.

That article is absolutely shocking. It's not one off stuff.

After he was told his contract was not being renewed he was edged out of the squad for the rest of the season. He was brought to the USA for the "A" team tour for kids and sat on the bench along with Hart. That was designed to humiliate.

Williams played over 160 games for Munster and would have passed 200 without injuries early in his career. Compare to the send off Matthewson got. Guys who hit those sorts of appearance numbers, even ones who weren't international stars are seen very very differently in Leinster. Michael Bent would be a loyal player who's a big step down and has had a few bad games. He got a few things from a few quarters but he's popular with fans and his tenacity has endeared himself.
I'm definitely not disputing Williams treatment. He's an honest player who clearly loved where he played. That's 2 criteria that should endear themselves to everyone without question in a just world.

What is irking me here is people more than happy to tar another clubs fanbase on what is unquestionably a minority. A loud one perhaps. But not indicative of their fan base
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by fourthirtythree »

Concerted media narrative to blame Keatley for his forwards' failures. Concerted media narrative to blame Jones for thr fact the forwards couldn't win or retain ball.

Individuals in the fanbase are gonna be arseholes but the media narrative surrounding Munster, which has negative impact on Leinster which is why I care, creates the environmemt for that to happen. It's toxic.
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Logorrhea »

ronk wrote:Compare to the send off Matthewson got.
THIS

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by ronk »

I'm questioning that it's a minority. I've seen enough myself. It usually wasn't bad, but it wasn't the usual idiots.

There are always a few idiots. But their voices get drowned out by the majority. It's like making noise during kicks. The quiet spreads.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by joooooe »

Logorrhea wrote:
ronk wrote:Compare to the send off Matthewson got.
THIS
I found this baffling. I said it previously earlier in this thread but imho Mathewson is the worst thing to happen to "Munster"'s playing squad in a decade and the fans LOVED him. He didn't plug a hole, he just blocked the progress of others (long-term impact) in a season where they didn't win anything anyway (short-term impact).

He's gone, fans gnash their teeth and ask for medical jokers and big money replacements, Nucifora stands firm, "Munster" FINALLY try Casey and it turns out he's class, if a bit raw.
Last edited by joooooe on December 27th, 2019, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by domhnallj »

Logorrhea wrote:
ronk wrote:Compare to the send off Matthewson got.
THIS
What this? What send off did he get?
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Aird »

Found it surprising that Nucifor allowed Matheson’s. arrival in the first place let alone his prolonged stay.
There was great anger in Ulster at his refusal to renew Pienars contract, and Ulster at that point had no obvious replacement. But cometh the Hour cometh the man and John Cooney saw this as an opportunity and came North. He is a gem , showing it iboth in his play and commitment to the cause.
There is no doubt that D4’s handling of Pinear , together with their surrender to social media pressure over the Jackson / Olding case lost the province quite a few supporters. The majority leaving over the IRFU policy with maybe a minor few over the actual court case.
Personally unless the players are IR or capable of becoming IR qualified I would be against them being signed to any province.
I know that you cannot guarantee what positions your Academy is going to produce but I would prefer any “surplus” being redistributed around the other provinces rather than see them go overseas.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by ronk »

There are 3 players in the Ulster pack who became Irish team regulars with Leinster.

There were another 4 yesterday in the pack who left relatively early post school.

There is a lot of redistribution.

Munster signed, wasted and ditched a scrumhalf who had left the Irish system (& also a loyal veteran who'd been playing well) so they could take a player getting gametime from Leinster. Redistribution is not a panacea.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by Dave Cahill »

An independent Disciplinary Committee composed of Chairman, Simon Thomas (Wales), Jean-Noël Couraud (France) and Rhian Williams (Wales), convened in London on 30 December 2019 under EPCR’s Disciplinary Rules to hear a misconduct complaint against Munster Rugby Team Doctor, Dr Jamie Kearns arising from the Heineken Champions Cup, Round 4 fixture between Saracens and Munster Rugby.

“The independent panel found that, during the match at Allianz Park on Saturday 14 December, Dr Kearns verbally abused the Saracens player, Jamie George, and that in doing so, Dr Kearns breached the EPCR Disciplinary Rules.

“The independent Disciplinary Committee took into account the immediate expression of remorse shown by Dr Kearns and determined that he serve a three-week touchline ban, suspended for a period of 12 months and pay a fine of €2,000 (due immediately).

“Both Dr Kearns and EPCR have the right to appeal the decision.”
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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Had Munster already given him a touchline ban themselves? Don't see why it should be a suspended ban otherwise.

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Re: Munster, The Money Pit Province 2019/2020

Post by blockhead »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Had Munster already given him a touchline ban themselves? Don't see why it should be a suspended ban otherwise.
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