Connacht 2019/20/21

[artaneboy]

The more I see of Alan O’Connor this season, the more I like what I see: a really honest, abrasive ‘enforcer’ type of second row. Some here complained of his behaviour last week! I say he’s worth a look when Fardy goes.

And with that he scores a try- I think...


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[Dave Cahill]

Remember when some people thought that Tiernan O'Halloran should be in the Irish team

[artaneboy]

Remember when some people thought that Tiernan O'Halloran should be in the Irish team

Well in fairness, I never thought he was that good (to take the jersey)- but he was playing very well 3 to 4 years ago.


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[Dave Cahill]

One thing the Connacht pack lacks is a serious ball carrier - they had 20-odd phases there on the line and couldn't get a guy over

[wixfjord]

The more I see of Alan O’Connor this season, the more I like what I see: a really honest, abrasive ‘enforcer’ type of second row. Some here complained of his behaviour last week! I say he’s worth a look when Fardy goes.

And with that he scores a try- I think...


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Yep that was me. DIdn't do much 'enforcing' last week unless you count mouthing at the ref and complaining.

I'm also not sure we should be looking at a 27 year old who has never really threatened an Irish squad as a replacement for Fardy, particularly considering the talent we have and have coming through!

[artaneboy]

The more I see of Alan O’Connor this season, the more I like what I see: a really honest, abrasive ‘enforcer’ type of second row. Some here complained of his behaviour last week! I say he’s worth a look when Fardy goes.

And with that he scores a try- I think...


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Yep that was me. DIdn't do much 'enforcing' last week unless you count mouthing at the ref and complaining.

I think he did okay against us, in a pack well outgunned on paper. He needed to be “prominent” in that game. Set the tone for them- and while he went off in the final quarter, I think the resistance he initially led, helped them in the end game revival.


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[wixfjord]

The more I see of Alan O’Connor this season, the more I like what I see: a really honest, abrasive ‘enforcer’ type of second row. Some here complained of his behaviour last week! I say he’s worth a look when Fardy goes.

And with that he scores a try- I think...


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Yep that was me. DIdn't do much 'enforcing' last week unless you count mouthing at the ref and complaining.

I think he did okay against us, in a pack well outgunned on paper. He needed to be “prominent” in that game. Set the tone for them- and while he went off in the final quarter, I think the resistance he initially led, helped them in the end game revival.


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He set the tone alright. A captain that swore at the ref and cost his team 10 metres, while doing feck all else!

He'd be a replacement for Fardy in the same way Damian Browne was a replacement for Nathan Hines!

[artaneboy]

Yep that was me. DIdn't do much 'enforcing' last week unless you count mouthing at the ref and complaining.

I think he did okay against us, in a pack well outgunned on paper. He needed to be “prominent” in that game. Set the tone for them- and while he went off in the final quarter, I think the resistance he initially led, helped them in the end game revival.


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He set the tone alright. A captain that swore at the ref and cost his team 10 metres, while doing feck all else!

He'd be a replacement for Fardy in the same way Damian Browne was a replacement for Nathan Hines!

He did plenty of good more in play. Played well in what was always likely to be a losing cause. You think falling foul of the ref isn’t an occupational hazard in those situations? He over stepped the mark that time, but had a lot of positive influence on the game.

What Hines and Browne offer as an analogy is lost on me. Pick an obvious imbalance and use that as the metric- is that it? The truth is- neither of us knows who will replace Fardy when he goes, but O’Connor is playing well in that dog role now.


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[wixfjord]

He did plenty of good more in play. Played well in what was always likely to be a losing cause. You think falling foul of the ref isn’t an occupational hazard in those situations? He over stepped the mark that time, but had a lot of positive influence on the game.

What Hines and Browne offer as an analogy is lost on me. Pick an obvious imbalance and use that as the metric- is that it? The truth is- neither of us knows who will replace Fardy when he goes, but O’Connor is playing well in that dog role now.


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Can't say I saw too much from him besides trying to act the hardman tbh. What did he do so well?

It's a good analogy too if I do say so myself!

One is an Aussie born top class ball playing international second row come back row with plenty of dog who had a huge impact on us.

The other is a fairly limited bulky Irish TH lock who has never really looked like a test/top class Euro player but is probably good enough as a stop gap.

We talk a lot here about competing with clubs like Sarries and competing with their power and athleticism.

If someone like O'Connor replaces Fardy and usurps players with more potential (the likes of Baird, Dunne, Molony, Charlie Ryan) etc then we're in a bit of trouble!

Answer this honestly - if he wasn't an ex Leinster player would we even be looking at him?

If we're looking at Ulster based IQ second rows I'd far prefer Treadwell. Looks much more dynamic, is bigger and has already played a higher level.

[arsebiscuits1]

He did plenty of good more in play. Played well in what was always likely to be a losing cause. You think falling foul of the ref isn’t an occupational hazard in those situations? He over stepped the mark that time, but had a lot of positive influence on the game.

What Hines and Browne offer as an analogy is lost on me. Pick an obvious imbalance and use that as the metric- is that it? The truth is- neither of us knows who will replace Fardy when he goes, but O’Connor is playing well in that dog role now.


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Can't say I saw too much from him besides trying to act the hardman tbh. What did he do so well?

It's a good analogy too if I do say so myself!

One is an Aussie born top class ball playing international second row come back row with plenty of dog who had a huge impact on us.

The other is a fairly limited bulky Irish TH lock who has never really looked like a test/top class Euro player but is probably good enough as a stop gap.

We talk a lot here about competing with clubs like Sarries and competing with their power and athleticism.

If someone like O'Connor replaces Fardy and usurps players with more potential (the likes of Baird, Dunne, Molony, Charlie Ryan) etc then we're in a bit of trouble!

Answer this honestly - if he wasn't an ex Leinster player would we even be looking at him?

If we're looking at Ulster based IQ second rows I'd far prefer Treadwell. Looks much more dynamic, is bigger and has already played a higher level.

I'd much rather O'Connor than Treadwell.

Treadwell hasn't played at a higher level. The test match(es?) he played in was a lower standard than your average Pro14 game. I can't see any other reason of his cap than to tie him down to Ireland.

Neither are tremendous players. But O'Connor would offer a lot of benefit in a rough away day in Wales or Italy.

But give me Baird or Dunne or Murphy in the row over those 2 any day

[wixfjord]

Treadwell hasn't played at a higher level. The test match(es?) he played in was a lower standard than your average Pro14 game. I can't see any other reason of his cap than to tie him down to Ireland.

Neither are tremendous players. But O'Connor would offer a lot of benefit in a rough away day in Wales or Italy.

But give me Baird or Dunne or Murphy in the row over those 2 any day

He has literally played at a higher level. He's a test player at 24. O'Connor is three years older and has never gotten near that.

This is all a moot point tbh. AOC wasn't good enough for us first time around and he isn't worth bringing back, never mind to replace Scott Fardy!!

[artaneboy]

He did plenty of good more in play. Played well in what was always likely to be a losing cause. You think falling foul of the ref isn’t an occupational hazard in those situations? He over stepped the mark that time, but had a lot of positive influence on the game.

What Hines and Browne offer as an analogy is lost on me. Pick an obvious imbalance and use that as the metric- is that it? The truth is- neither of us knows who will replace Fardy when he goes, but O’Connor is playing well in that dog role now.


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Can't say I saw too much from him besides trying to act the hardman tbh. What did he do so well?

It's a good analogy too if I do say so myself!

One is an Aussie born top class ball playing international second row come back row with plenty of dog who had a huge impact on us.

The other is a fairly limited bulky Irish TH lock who has never really looked like a test/top class Euro player but is probably good enough as a stop gap.

We talk a lot here about competing with clubs like Sarries and competing with their power and athleticism.

If someone like O'Connor replaces Fardy and usurps players with more potential (the likes of Baird, Dunne, Molony, Charlie Ryan) etc then we're in a bit of trouble!

Answer this honestly - if he wasn't an ex Leinster player would we even be looking at him?

If we're looking at Ulster based IQ second rows I'd far prefer Treadwell. Looks much more dynamic, is bigger and has already played a higher level.

Jeez- what do you want- a minute by minute analysis? Watch the recording yourself and see- if you want to see. But you’ve obviously made your mind up already- as to be fair have I.

To, more usefully to both of us and to answer you honestly as demanded- Yes- even if he wasn’t an ex-Leinster player, I’d be impressed by him. He’s a different type of 2nd row to Treadwell- and O’Connor has a skill set we need above his sometime partner.

Your analogy is self-serving and only useful in a superficial way: just because Hines and Fardy were Aussies and Browne and O’Connor are IQ means very little in terms of comparisons.

Now, do I think that O’Connor is the first choice I’d go for of those we may to be allowed to sign as a replacement? No. But as I doubt we’ll be allowed replace him with another NIQ- I do think he’d be a decent pick of those in the much shallower pool we are likely to be allowed to sign.

BTW- I’d never, ever condone abusing officials... but it was Clancy he swore at.


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[wixfjord]

Jeez- what do you want- a minute by minute analysis? Watch the recording yourself and see- if you want to see. But you’ve obviously made your mind up already- as to be fair have I.

Ah that old chestnut! 'You do the work to prove my point'!

I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[artaneboy]

Jeez- what do you want- a minute by minute analysis? Watch the recording yourself and see- if you want to see. But you’ve obviously made your mind up already- as to be fair have I.

Ah that old chestnut! 'You do the work to prove my point'!

I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.

More than happy to do so...


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[arsebiscuits1]

Treadwell hasn't played at a higher level. The test match(es?) he played in was a lower standard than your average Pro14 game. I can't see any other reason of his cap than to tie him down to Ireland.

Neither are tremendous players. But O'Connor would offer a lot of benefit in a rough away day in Wales or Italy.

But give me Baird or Dunne or Murphy in the row over those 2 any day

He has literally played at a higher level. He's a test player at 24. O'Connor is three years older and has never gotten near that.

This is all a moot point tbh. AOC wasn't good enough for us first time around and he isn't worth bringing back, never mind to replace Scott Fardy!!

Do you think Treadwell's international caps were any way close to a higher level than the game this evening as an example? They weren't close.

You're absolutely correct though on the points of Fardys replacement. Which I never argued

[Aird]

Can’t see O’Connor heading down to Leinster after you rejected him. His whole career of any significance has been with Ulster and with Junior now playing at Ulster and getting game time this would be a further reason to stay. I am surprised it has taken so long for him to get any recognition in Leinster. Right from the startAlanwas never a man to take a step back might not be spectacular but a real grafter who takes no nonsense from anybody.
Mc Farland has used him as a Captain on a number of times and Dan recognises his ability. Treadwell is a slightly more cultured player but whilst the two are much of the same O’Connor would be an enforcer whereas Treadwell would be more prominent in open play.
Personally I am more than happy with the two boys and was surprised when Ulster signed Carter. He is a bit of an unknown Quantity as he was just beginning to settle in and produce when he was crocked at Bath.

[hugonaut]

One thing the Connacht pack lacks is a serious ball carrier - they had 20-odd phases there on the line and couldn't get a guy over

Agree 100%. I don't think it's going to be the most popular thing to say on the Connacht thread, but I don't really rate Eoin McKeon as a player, never have. If there's a value to having a native son in the squad, it's eaten away by the fact that he looks like one of the least effective players in the entire group.

He's 28 this season, has got 132 Connacht appearances to his name and every time I see him play, I see a guy with no points of difference. I think there are probably 15-20 or so uncontracted backrowers in Ireland who could show up after a solid pre-season and do what he does.

Aside from him, I quite like how Connacht's backrow shapes up. Butler and Fainga are really good players, but I would still question bringing the two of them in at the same time - they're so similar.

I think Gallagher is a good 5/6 option, more a blindside than a lock at the moment. Having the ability to cover the two positions will get him in squads and keep him busy, keep him involved. He's a very good lineout option too, offers something different than SOB2. Basher Boyle is a good all-rounder across the backrow, offers quite a bit of suddenness and explosion without really having the size you'd ideally want at blindside or No8. He's a serious worker and a hard-nose though, more mature than his peers. I like the career he's building for himself.

Personally speaking, I would take SOB and put him in place at blindside and captain. I see him cut from the same stone as John Muldoon: a local, a natural leader and a physical presence. As a player, I think he's a lot more rounded than Muldoon, though obviously not as durable. He played in the same 2014 U20s side as Leavy and Jack O'Donogue [they all captained it at various stages, if I remember correctly] and I'd see that as a viable backrow at test level. I think he has test-level ability and is going to turn out to be a seriously physical No6.

The way I see it, there are a lot of pieces in place but they need to find a Nick Williams/Fritz Lee character. Connacht don't have the money to tie down a No8 with a SANZAR test cap, but there are plenty of serious and hard-nosed No8s in NZ playing Heartland rugby for a hell of a lot less than they'd earn playing for the Westies. It's the right time of the year to be scouting SH No8s; Super Rugby kicks off next month. They need to concentrate on a No8 though, not the best player available. They've enough multi-taskers.

Blindside: Sean O'Brien [No6], Cillian Gallagher [No6/5]
Openside: Jarrad Butler [No7/8], Colby Fainga [No7], Paul Boyle [No7/6]
No8: A.N. Other [No8], R. Copeland [No8]

[Colmodon]

One thing the Connacht pack lacks is a serious ball carrier - they had 20-odd phases there on the line and couldn't get a guy over

Agree 100%. I don't think it's going to be the most popular thing to say on the Connacht thread, but I don't really rate Eoin McKeon as a player, never have. If there's a value to having a native son in the squad, it's eaten away by the fact that he looks like one of the least effective players in the entire group.

He's 28 this season, has got 132 Connacht appearances to his name and every time I see him play, I see a guy with no points of difference. I think there are probably 15-20 or so uncontracted backrowers in Ireland who could show up after a solid pre-season and do what he does.

Aside from him, I quite like how Connacht's backrow shapes up. Butler and Fainga are really good players, but I would still question bringing the two of them in at the same time - they're so similar.

I think Gallagher is a good 5/6 option, more a blindside than a lock at the moment. Having the ability to cover the two positions will get him in squads and keep him busy, keep him involved. He's a very good lineout option too, offers something different than SOB2. Basher Boyle is a good all-rounder across the backrow, offers quite a bit of suddenness and explosion without really having the size you'd ideally want at blindside or No8. He's a serious worker and a hard-nose though, more mature than his peers. I like the career he's building for himself.

Personally speaking, I would take SOB and put him in place at blindside and captain. I see him cut from the same stone as John Muldoon: a local, a natural leader and a physical presence. As a player, I think he's a lot more rounded than Muldoon, though obviously not as durable. He played in the same 2014 U20s side as Leavy and Jack O'Donogue [they all captained it at various stages, if I remember correctly] and I'd see that as a viable backrow at test level. I think he has test-level ability and is going to turn out to be a seriously physical No6.

The way I see it, there are a lot of pieces in place but they need to find a Nick Williams/Fritz Lee character. Connacht don't have the money to tie down a No8 with a SANZAR test cap, but there are plenty of serious and hard-nosed No8s in NZ playing Heartland rugby for a hell of a lot less than they'd earn playing for the Westies. It's the right time of the year to be scouting SH No8s; Super Rugby kicks off next month. They need to concentrate on a No8 though, not the best player available. They've enough multi-taskers.

Blindside: Sean O'Brien [No6], Cillian Gallagher [No6/5]
Openside: Jarrad Butler [No7/8], Colby Fainga [No7], Paul Boyle [No7/6]
No8: A.N. Other [No8], R. Copeland [No8]

I think last night for me might have been tough to watch for Deegan. Doris really came of age over the back to backs against Northampton. Deegan got a chance v Ulster and bagged two tries and played well. For the more glamorous game of the interpro series - Deegan doesn't make the 23 and Doris gets man of the match. Given that Conan will likely be back in the next 4 - 6 weeks, Deegan is likely to struggle even further for game time. I would not be surprised if Connacht renewed their efforts to get him to head west. An age old problem in the Leinster back row, but he's too good a player not to be playing regularly at this stage of his career and Doris's stellar performances are really ramping up the pressure on him to perform so much so that, even when he does play really well, it's no guarantee he'll be involved the following week.

[leinsterforever]

O'Brien's a serious player, but his injury record means they can't really rely on him. Coming back from ages out against Leinster and almost immediately getting another injury that'll keep him out for months again was a sickener. Him being out all the time means they could go looking for a physical 6 as well. Gavin Coombes would be an interesting Irish option.

[Ruckedtobits]

The real solution won't happen. Convince Josh Murphy to go on loan to Connacht for the rest of this Season, with the incentive of selection to go on Irish Tour in June.

Leinster can survive with Ruddock, Fardy, Toner, Ryan, Baird and Dowling to cover 5/6. Josh, Connors and Penny competing for No 7 and Doris, Deegan soon to be re-joined by Conan in competition for No 8.

Murphy has the physique, technique and engine to play international No 6. But he won't get sufficient game time in Leinster to fulfill his potential. Connacht could give him top European fare at No 6 and Pro14 experience at 5 and 6.

However, unless it works with his medical training, it might be a complete non-runner.