Rugby wages trends

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Twist
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Rugby wages trends

Post by Twist »

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Not sure what the best thread for this is but here ya go. Salaries by position in the three leagues

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ronk
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by ronk »

Trends thread?

Interesting that 2nd rows have moved on.

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Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by artaneboy »

Twist wrote:Image

Not sure what the best thread for this is but here ya go. Salaries by position in the three leagues
Interesting! I thought that conventional wisdom/ scuttlebutt had it that the 10 and 3 were the best earners on average. But second rows and wingers- there ye go...


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paddyor
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by paddyor »

It was props a few years ago alright but it appears the disappearnace of Penaud Traille from the score sheet has seen there value dissiapte. In fact you're more likely to score a PT off lineout maul nowadays. Maybe it takes a while for that to filter thru in terms of wages.

Kind of surprised "Le Petit General" is so low in the T14 rankings
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ronk
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Re: Pro 14 - General Thread

Post by ronk »

paddyor wrote:It was props a few years ago alright but it appears the disappearnace of Penaud Traille from the score sheet has seen there value dissiapte. In fact you're more likely to score a PT off lineout maul nowadays. Maybe it takes a while for that to filter thru in terms of wages.

Kind of surprised "Le Petit General" is so low in the T14 rankings
Tight heads aren’t in as short supply as a few years ago. There are a fair few really really good locks around to drive average up but they are still in demand.

Also this is a different question statistically. e.g. starting out halves in Ireland. Sexton is probably the top paid player overall. The others are Carbery, Carty and Burns. So nothing special salary wise so the average is high but maybe not the highest paid.

Now lock. Beirne and Kleyn signed as internationals; Toner/Ryan and Fardy experienced guys; Roux and Dillane are capped; Henderson and Carter.

The most interesting difference is wings/fullbacks in different leagues. The English love their fullbacks (and have for years), the French buy star wingers.

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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by limecat »

I wonder where the various coaches fit in the scale here
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ronk
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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by ronk »

The English should recruit fullbacks from France and Pro14. The French should recruit wingers from England where they are cheap.

Hookers and sevens look like good value, if you can get a durable one.

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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by dropkick »

It makes sense from a supply and demand point of view.


In the pro14 there are not many foreign players allowed so we need to rely more producing local talent compared to France especially with England somewhere in between. No surprise then that the rarest athletes (locks) are the highest paid. The French clubs import locks from all over the world so their supply is greater.


Big ball carrying 8s are also rare as are top quality tighthead props.


Hookers and 7s tend to be closer in build to the average man so there's more supply there.


What was surprising on first viewing was loose head prop being near the bottom in the top14 but when you think of it, they've been flooded with props from Georgia, SA and the Pacific islands in recent years.


It also looks like English clubs see their fullbacks as second playmakers more than the pro14 and top14.

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Morf
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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by Morf »

Or just how long they have to last in the game to become elite in physique and experience.

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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Very interesting Table and, if it represents more that just recent high-profile movements of 2nd Rows, it is perhaps indicative of a changing pattern of where the most tactically influential players are now found.

In that regard, it is also informative to see the uniformity in the positions of No 10's, 3's and 8's. All still considered vital in all three Leagues.

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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by ronk »

They are also the positions with the rarest body shapes and sizes at elite level.

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neiliog93
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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by neiliog93 »

It's supply and demand. The number of guys who are 6'6"+, and very well built, and very athletic, is low. How many genuinely big, mean, athletic second rows are out there now - maybe Etzebeth, de Jager, Snyman, Retallick, Skelton, Lavinini, Vahamahina? That's about it.
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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by Dexter »

neiliog93 wrote:It's supply and demand. The number of guys who are 6'6"+, and very well built, and very athletic, is low. How many genuinely big, mean, athletic second rows are out there now - maybe Etzebeth, de Jager, Snyman, Retallick, Skelton, Lavinini, Vahamahina? That's about it.
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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by ronk »

Dexter wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:It's supply and demand. The number of guys who are 6'6"+, and very well built, and very athletic, is low. How many genuinely big, mean, athletic second rows are out there now - maybe Etzebeth, de Jager, Snyman, Retallick, Skelton, Lavinini, Vahamahina? That's about it.
James Ryan??
He's not that big but he is highly athletic for a big man. Itoge too.

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ronk
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Re: Rugby wages trends

Post by ronk »

blockhead wrote:Not exactly the right thread for this and it is from last october but some good numbers in this rugbpass article.
Analysis: How European clubs are managing wage inflation, increased revenue and squad growth
By Alex Shaw
Analysis: How European clubs are managing wage inflation, increased revenue and squad growth
As the face of European club and international rugby changes amid significant investment from private equity firm CVC Capital Partners, the finances and structure of rugby in the northern hemisphere have never been more intriguing.

With the Gallagher Premiership beginning this weekend and the Guinness PRO14 moving into its fourth round later this mongth, Esportif Intelligence have released their annual ‘European Rugby by Numbers’ review focusing on the financial strength and squad management of the clubs in both competitions.

RugbyPass have delved into the report and found some of the highlights that make for very interesting reading as the 2019/20 European club season gets fully underway.

In terms of average attendance, the Premiership’s 14,000 average outstripped the PRO14’s 9,200 last season, although those figures were much closer when comparing the top four sides in each competition with the PRO14’s 12,900 much closer to the Premiership’s 13,5000. The report notes that this is due to the three Irish provinces being in the top four of the PRO14, while attendances at the four Welsh regions diminished in 2018/19.

More of a divide was noted in the estimated primary broadcast deals of the two competitions, where the Premiership’s annual £40million deal with BT Sport significantly outstripped that the PRO14’s yearly £20m-25m – excluding South African contribution – deal with Premier Sports.

Both leagues remain considerably behind the Top 14, however, with the French league’s deal worth £65m last season and set to rise to £88m for the current season albeit that is shared with the Pro D2. These figures do not include secondary broadcast deals the competitions have in place, such as the Premiership’s deal in China.

The differences in attendance figures and broadcast deals are reflected in the value of players in the competition, with the Premiership averaging a figure of £150,500 per player and the PRO14 at a mark of £126,500 per player. As a result, there has been a knock-on effect on the financial positions of those clubs.

Overall revenues in the Premiership were up by five per cent in 2018 to a total of £205m, although they still recorded operating losses of £36m across the league. By comparison, Top 14 revenue sat at around £300m and there were combined operating losses of £27m. Due to the array of different ownership and funding models in the PRO14, the report stated it was more difficult to compare their figures.

The report also looked at the coaching and management of the sides in the Premiership and the PRO14, with the former averaging 5.5 senior coaches per club while the latter averaged 4.6 senior coaches. Again, where that disparity changes somewhat is when taking into account just the top four clubs where the Premiership’s average of 5.5 remains steady, but the PRO14’s mark goes up to 5.3 senior coaches per club.

On to the playing squads and Esportif Intelligence found that PRO14 squads remained largely the same size between 2017/18 and 2018/19 while Premiership squads had increased on average from 41 senior players to 43 and from 13 academy players to 16. The number of players used in the season was also up, from 47 to 49. Leinster recorded the most players used across the two leagues with 57, followed by Munster with 54 and Bristol Bears with 53.

On average, Premiership clubs had three more academy players than the PRO14 teams last season, had an additional player signing senior terms from their academy and recruited 11 new players, rather than seven in the PRO14. The PRO14 sides did average a higher retention of players, though, with 32 compared to the Premiership’s 29.

Domestic player figures were high in the PRO14 with around 70 per cent of players on senior contracts being eligible for the nation they were playing in, a figure that jumped to 74 per cent in the top four side of the competition. In the Premiership, the number fell to 57 per cent.

Average Premiership spend on senior playing squad rose from £6.1m to £6.4m last season, while a mark of £5m in the PRO14 stayed steady from 2017/18 to 2018/19. In both competitions, the starting XV accounted for roughly 60 per cent of that total senior squad spend. The rise of £300k in squad spend in the Premiership represents a significant slowing in wage inflation following the jump from £5.2m (2016/17) to £6.1m (2017/18) when the Premiership increased its salary cap.

One factor consistent across both competitions is that the clubs within the top four more heavily rewarded their domestic players financially. In terms of starting XV spend, the Premiership clubs average 49 per cent on domestic players and 51 per cent on foreign players.

That jumps to a 57 per cent and 43 cent split in favour of domestic players at the clubs in the top four. In the PRO14, an average of 69 per cent to domestic players and 31 per cebnt to foreign players becomes 75 per cent and 25 per cent respectively at the top four teams.

These numbers provide an insight into the financial and squad management processes behind the clubs in the top tier of home nations rugby. With the impact of CVC’s investment in both competitions yet to be fully felt, these figures could provide an important baseline moving forward.
Cross posting this.

If that stat is right: prem loses £36 and average spend on senior squad is £6.4 then the clubs are almost losing enough to pay the salaries of another 6 teams. I.e. half the league. Or the prem would still lose money if they paid less than Pro14 salary average.

There are serious questions about their financials.

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