Friday's rant

[fourthirtythree]

Well Cameron got himself another year or so in power and only f%~ked up his country in return.

He was always utterly incompetent, genuinely GWB stupid, but more so, this just cements his place as possibly the worst PM in British history. He had no credibility to lead the remain campaign as he and his party were rhetorically challenged. They worshiped at the altar of fact free anti-intellectual xenophobia and are now hoist on their own petard. Murdoch won himself another election, if the British don't realise soon how deeply damaging his evil empire has been for them they have no hope.

Disgraceful shits putting their careers ahead of the health of the nation.

[cormac]

Question, does anyone else think that if they make noises at rejoining in the future that the rest of Europe could have a referendum to see if we want them?

If they formally leave and then choose to rejoin at a later date they'd probably have to commit to joining Schengen and the Euro too.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Question, does anyone else think that if they make noises at rejoining in the future that the rest of Europe could have a referendum to see if we want them?

Obviously, like the last vote when we all voted to accept Turkey

If I remember correctly that vote was on a saturday and I was weekending in wexford so I couldn't vote

[kermischocolate]

Bet Cameron is wishing he never thought of a referendum no one was really calling for!]

Hmmm. Having lived in the great land of GB for the last 16 years never once have I heard anyone wanting referendums about Europe.

Probably because you're in Scotland - having been based in the South East/Midlands for 29 years I've heard lots about people wanting it.

Fair point.

As to rejoining in the future wouldn't every nation have a veto so surely someone would use it?

[FLIP]

Bet Cameron is wishing he never thought of a referendum no one was really calling for!]

Hmmm. Having lived in the great land of GB for the last 16 years never once have I heard anyone wanting referendums about Europe.

Probably because you're in Scotland - having been based in the South East/Midlands for 29 years I've heard lots about people wanting it.

Fair point.

As to rejoining in the future wouldn't every nation have a veto so surely someone would use it?

Most likely. The only hope I feel is that the EU offer better terms to the UK to stay, and therefore the UK government have grounds for a second referendum. I know for sure if it were to happen I'd actually take time off work and campaign instead of doing what most Remain supporters did and post memes on social media.

[domhnallj]

Because of the weird way laws work here the referendum could be ignored by parliament. It would be suicide politically but perfectly lawful.

[fourthirtythree]

Because of the weird way laws work here the referendum could be ignored by parliament. It would be suicide politically but perfectly lawful.

Sure they don't have a constitution, what they do have is political reality. If the political reality says one thing then it doesn't matter what a written constitution would have said.

I don't see any reason right now why this vote would not bind political parties.

That said the leave shower are desperately trying to slow things down now. Maybe they were just calling bluffs?

Can you imagine playing such high stakes chicken for a little bit of money and power?

[kermischocolate]

I don't see any reason right now why this vote would not bind political parties.

That said the leave shower are desperately trying to slow things down now. Maybe they were just calling bluffs?

Can you imagine playing such high stakes chicken for a little bit of money and power?

I don't think the leave folk ever truly thought they'd win. If they did we'd know who the candidates for next prime minister will be by now- apart from the obvious Boris.

[domhnallj]

I don't see any reason right now why this vote would not bind political parties.

That said the leave shower are desperately trying to slow things down now. Maybe they were just calling bluffs?

Can you imagine playing such high stakes chicken for a little bit of money and power?

I don't think the leave folk ever truly thought they'd win. If they did we'd know who the candidates for next prime minister will be by now- apart from the obvious Boris.

They're trying for time because they don't have a plan. The longer this drags out the more chance article 50 will not be invoked meaning no leave. Dave has already booted it down the road three months. Events may well intercede and it will be bumped down the road again and again. There is a petition to rerun the referendum and it has passed the minimum numbers required and must be debated in parliament.

[fourthirtythree]

And the only thing BJ should ever be a candidate for is the pillory.

Sometimes you realise that your own politicians are not the worst in the world. Cameron was the most stupid, and I really don't say that lightly, world leader I have ever seen. He was the world's village idiot.

BJ is an awful man. Horrifying. Narcissistic. Sociopathic.

[TerenureJim]

Not a fan of Fintan O'Toole but his column in today's IT makes for a good read.

Sometimes democracy does get it wrong during economically challenging times witness the end of the Weimar Republic in the early 1930's

[fourthirtythree]

Pretty sure the Nazis didn't actually win the popular vote - they hijacked the state, did the Anschluss, suppressed the opposition (communists were their only real opposition), banned lots of people from voting, and then won the "vote".

Because: emergency, terrorism.

The last 100+ years have been defined by state reactions to terrorism - who gives a f%~k today about Archduke Franz Ferdinand being assassinated by a Serbian terrorist? All we care about is the First World War that was started in response to such a miniscule event.*

Racism and xenophobia has been so mainstreamed by the word terrorism that people have lost their reason. A campaigner on the leave side literally murdered a campaigner on the stay side and this didn't give pause.

* the historian Hobsbawm tells a story of the archduke's grandson on his death bed hearing crowds and asking his aide were they out for his death "no sir it's the Austria Hungary football match" - "oh, and who are we playing?"...

[tate]

Pretty sure the Nazis didn't actually win the popular vote - they hijacked the state, did the Anschluss, suppressed the opposition (communists were their only real opposition), banned lots of people from voting, and then won the "vote".

Because: emergency, terrorism.

The last 100+ years have been defined by state reactions to terrorism - who gives a f%~k today about Archduke Franz Ferdinand being assassinated by a Serbian terrorist? All we care about is the First World War that was started in response to such a miniscule event.*

Racism and xenophobia has been so mainstreamed by the word terrorism that people have lost their reason. A campaigner on the leave side literally murdered a campaigner on the stay side and this didn't give pause.

* the historian Hobsbawm tells a story of the archduke's grandson on his death bed hearing crowds and asking his aide were they out for his death "no sir it's the Austria Hungary football match" - "oh, and who are we playing?"...

the nazis got 33% of the seats in March 1933, then passed the Enabling Act with support from non-socialist parties and became a de facto dictator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fe ... March_1933
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

I read somewhere that 30% is a kind of magic target politically that gives you critical mass to change things. Think the American Revolutionaries had a similar number before they got the king of england out of their face

[rooster]

Do you lads fancy invading south Armagh and claiming it as a 27th county? You won't find a lot of resistance if you act quickly before the smugglers work out a possible Klondike coming their way

[The Doc]

I was thinking the provos will have a new plan to undermine the UK state... If UK leaves they will run charters from Romania and Turkey and flood immigrants across the border into the UK. They can use their border crossing expertise for a new use.

And if London introduce border controls between Northern Ireland and mainland UK it will be a bit of a slap for the DUP

[TerenureJim]

Can't see the UK lasting in the next 2-5 years, it'll be odd to think a Brexit vote could actually turn out to be a reverse of the Scottish independence vote where England, and Wales, have voted in effect break up the UK. Scotland will be off before too long and I doubt Boris or Michael even know where NI is on the map let alone want to pay for "Paddys" problems so will slowly cut them off and leave them to us and the EU to pick up the tab supporting farmers and regional development.

[Ruckedtobits]

The first impact of Brexit is irreversible and it is the external market effect on the value of Sterling. The more prolonged the strucural process of exit, the more detrimental will be the impact on Sterling.

The second impact of Brexit is that it is now evident that the Leave campaign has no clear picture of what were the steps to be followed, or what were the objectives, if and when, they succeeded in their campaign. As one listens to even the leaders of that group, it is clearer than ever that this was very, very much a vote against the establishment, rather than a vote for any ideal future society.

[tate]

very anecdotal, and given who i follow on twitter and fb no doubt very biased, but there was a lot of buyers remorse today.

is anyone that surprised to hear farage has no idea what he's at?

[cormac]

Pretty sure the Nazis didn't actually win the popular vote - they hijacked the state, did the Anschluss, suppressed the opposition (communists were their only real opposition), banned lots of people from voting, and then won the "vote".

Because: emergency, terrorism.

The last 100+ years have been defined by state reactions to terrorism - who gives a f%~k today about Archduke Franz Ferdinand being assassinated by a Serbian terrorist? All we care about is the First World War that was started in response to such a miniscule event.*

Racism and xenophobia has been so mainstreamed by the word terrorism that people have lost their reason. A campaigner on the leave side literally murdered a campaigner on the stay side and this didn't give pause.

* the historian Hobsbawm tells a story of the archduke's grandson on his death bed hearing crowds and asking his aide were they out for his death "no sir it's the Austria Hungary football match" - "oh, and who are we playing?"...

the nazis got 33% of the seats in March 1933, then passed the Enabling Act with support from non-socialist parties and became a de facto dictator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_fe ... March_1933
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

I read somewhere that 30% is a kind of magic target politically that gives you critical mass to change things. Think the American Revolutionaries had a similar number before they got the king of england out of their face

Nazis won 44% of the vote in March 1933 and finished 36 seats short of a majority but formed a government with the support of Hugenburg's nationalists. They then arrested all the Communist deputies and some of the Social Democrats so they could get the 2/3rds majority they needed to pass the Enabling Act.

[rooster]

very anecdotal, and given who i follow on twitter and fb no doubt very biased, but there was a lot of buyers remorse today.

is anyone that surprised to hear farage has no idea what he's at?

No, when asked a few days before the referendum what his plans were if leave won he said he hadn't even thought about that.