Civil (selfserving) servants
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Civil (selfserving) servants
Civil servants take 11 sick days
The average civil service employee took over eleven days sick leave in 2007, resulting in the loss of almost 5 per cent of the total available working time, a report published today by the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) has revealed.
The report, based on a survey in 2007, found 59 per cent of all civil service staff availed of sick leave that year at an estimated cost of €64 million. However, the C&AG John Buckley pointed to a recent UK study which suggested the real cost, when knock-on effects are taken into account, could be twice as much.
Nearly one in ten of all days lost were uncertified by a doctor or unauthorised
The report said there was a considerable variation in sick days taken when the pattern of absence by grade, age, gender and work sharing arrangements was analysed.
For example, the average number of days that each employee was out sick ranged from almost five and a half days in the Department of the Taoiseach to nearly 16 days in the Property Registration Authority
Only 42 per cent of staff took sick leave at the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism compared to 76.5 per cent in the State Laboratory.
The report also found female staff accounted for 68 per cent of total days lost with the average woman taking six days more sick leave annually than her male colleague – 14 days compared to eight.
The report stressed legitimate sickness leave is a normal part of employment but insisted civil servant managers need to intervene where it is “excessive and unwarranted”.
The number of days lost in the Irish civil service is comparable to other countries, the report concluded.
The average civil service employee took over eleven days sick leave in 2007, resulting in the loss of almost 5 per cent of the total available working time, a report published today by the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) has revealed.
The report, based on a survey in 2007, found 59 per cent of all civil service staff availed of sick leave that year at an estimated cost of €64 million. However, the C&AG John Buckley pointed to a recent UK study which suggested the real cost, when knock-on effects are taken into account, could be twice as much.
Nearly one in ten of all days lost were uncertified by a doctor or unauthorised
The report said there was a considerable variation in sick days taken when the pattern of absence by grade, age, gender and work sharing arrangements was analysed.
For example, the average number of days that each employee was out sick ranged from almost five and a half days in the Department of the Taoiseach to nearly 16 days in the Property Registration Authority
Only 42 per cent of staff took sick leave at the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism compared to 76.5 per cent in the State Laboratory.
The report also found female staff accounted for 68 per cent of total days lost with the average woman taking six days more sick leave annually than her male colleague – 14 days compared to eight.
The report stressed legitimate sickness leave is a normal part of employment but insisted civil servant managers need to intervene where it is “excessive and unwarranted”.
The number of days lost in the Irish civil service is comparable to other countries, the report concluded.
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Don't get me started.
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Whats the rate of sick leave in the private sector?
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Less than 3% according to the news this morning.Dave Cahill wrote:Whats the rate of sick leave in the private sector?
To be fair to the public sector - I'd say there's a fair bit of long term sick leave, of which the public service seems a lot more subject to, pulling that average up. I think most private companies give up to six months' pay, depending on size, before you'd have to take up disability support or the like, though plenty would not go anywhere near that far.
I know my contract gives me five days' sick pay and after that it's discretionary.
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Had to laugh at the prison service, the sick days dropped after a recent payrise
Doctors are also to blame for this, some will give sicknotes out at the drop of a hat
Doctors are also to blame for this, some will give sicknotes out at the drop of a hat
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Most places I know pay for either 4 or 5 and after that your on welfare.Dave Cahill wrote:Whats the rate of sick leave in the private sector?
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It was something similar when I was in the service.Hickiefan wrote:
To be fair to the public sector - I'd say there's a fair bit of long term sick leave, of which the public service seems a lot more subject to, pulling that average up. I think most private companies give up to six months' pay, depending on size, before you'd have to take up disability support or the like, though plenty would not go anywhere near that far.
I know my contract gives me five days' sick pay and after that it's discretionary.
It should also be bourne in mind that the public service has more older people than any other employer, is required under law to hire people who may be susceptible to recurring illness, and, despite the ESRI saying that being a Guard is equivalent employment to being a security guard in Tesco, some jobs in the public service are considerably more dangerous than any in the private sector.
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Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
Weekly Civil Service pay up 3.2pc
Average weekly earnings in the Public Sector (excluding Health) rose by 3.2pc in the year to June 2009 from E942.81 to E973.09, the latest figures from the CSO reveals.
This compares to a rise of 3.2pc in the year to March 2008. Weekly earnings for the Civil Service rose by 4.7pc (from E889.82 to E931.46) and for the Defence sector by 4.3pc (from E799.65 to E834.06). Average weekly earnings for the Gardai, inclusive of overtime, fell by 3.1pc from E1,247.74 to E1,208.50 per week.
However, their weekly earnings excluding overtime rose by 0.6pc from E1,093.16 to E1,099.25 for the same period.
Over the four year period from June 2005 to June 2009, average weekly earnings in the Public Sector (excluding Health) rose by 16.1pc from E838.35 to E973.09.
Regional Bodies' earnings rose by 19.2pc (from E720.92 to E859.70) and Semi State by 17.8pc (from E898.01 to E1,058.26), while the earnings for the Gardai, inclusive of overtime, rose by 11.6pc.
Earnings for sectors within Education rose by around 13pc in this period with the exception of Third Level which rose by 22.8pc from E918.27 to E1,127.68 per week.
Average weekly earnings in the Public Sector (excluding Health) rose by 3.2pc in the year to June 2009 from E942.81 to E973.09, the latest figures from the CSO reveals.
This compares to a rise of 3.2pc in the year to March 2008. Weekly earnings for the Civil Service rose by 4.7pc (from E889.82 to E931.46) and for the Defence sector by 4.3pc (from E799.65 to E834.06). Average weekly earnings for the Gardai, inclusive of overtime, fell by 3.1pc from E1,247.74 to E1,208.50 per week.
However, their weekly earnings excluding overtime rose by 0.6pc from E1,093.16 to E1,099.25 for the same period.
Over the four year period from June 2005 to June 2009, average weekly earnings in the Public Sector (excluding Health) rose by 16.1pc from E838.35 to E973.09.
Regional Bodies' earnings rose by 19.2pc (from E720.92 to E859.70) and Semi State by 17.8pc (from E898.01 to E1,058.26), while the earnings for the Gardai, inclusive of overtime, rose by 11.6pc.
Earnings for sectors within Education rose by around 13pc in this period with the exception of Third Level which rose by 22.8pc from E918.27 to E1,127.68 per week.
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Dave Cahill wrote:It was something similar when I was in the service.Hickiefan wrote:
To be fair to the public sector - I'd say there's a fair bit of long term sick leave, of which the public service seems a lot more subject to, pulling that average up. I think most private companies give up to six months' pay, depending on size, before you'd have to take up disability support or the like, though plenty would not go anywhere near that far.
I know my contract gives me five days' sick pay and after that it's discretionary.
It should also be bourne in mind that the public service has more older people than any other employer, is required under law to hire people who may be susceptible to recurring illness, and, despite the ESRI saying that being a Guard is equivalent employment to being a security guard in Tesco, some jobs in the public service are considerably more dangerous than any in the private sector.
If it smells like an excues, looks like and excuse and talks like an excuse, its an excuse.
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And if the figures are bullshit in the first place, every subsequent argument based on them is also male bovine excrement.the spoofer wrote:If it smells like an excues, looks like and excuse and talks like an excuse, its an excuse.Dave Cahill wrote:It was something similar when I was in the service.Hickiefan wrote:
To be fair to the public sector - I'd say there's a fair bit of long term sick leave, of which the public service seems a lot more subject to, pulling that average up. I think most private companies give up to six months' pay, depending on size, before you'd have to take up disability support or the like, though plenty would not go anywhere near that far.
I know my contract gives me five days' sick pay and after that it's discretionary.
It should also be bourne in mind that the public service has more older people than any other employer, is required under law to hire people who may be susceptible to recurring illness, and, despite the ESRI saying that being a Guard is equivalent employment to being a security guard in Tesco, some jobs in the public service are considerably more dangerous than any in the private sector.
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Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
Dave the figures are fact. FACT
They are only incorrect in that they do not take into the account late arrival, early leaving, extended lunches, fraudulant "time-in-lieu" and general idleness of many (not all) of our civil (selfserving) servants.
"The average civil service employee took over eleven days sick leave in 2007, resulting in the loss of almost 5 per cent of the total available working time, a report published today by the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) has revealed."
They are only incorrect in that they do not take into the account late arrival, early leaving, extended lunches, fraudulant "time-in-lieu" and general idleness of many (not all) of our civil (selfserving) servants.
"The average civil service employee took over eleven days sick leave in 2007, resulting in the loss of almost 5 per cent of the total available working time, a report published today by the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) has revealed."
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Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
Stress can be difficult to prove, can't it? Rather like back pain. Doesn't mean they don't have it.sheepshagger wrote:Had to laugh at the prison service, the sick days dropped after a recent payrise
Doctors are also to blame for this, some will give sicknotes out at the drop of a hat
I cannot imagine a worse job than being a prison officer.
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Questi parea che contra me venisse
con la test'alta e con rabbiosa fame,
sì che parea che l'aere ne tremesse'
INFERNO CANTO 01
http://www.bornfree.org.uk
Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
I was invited to an interview to be a Garda almost 2 years ago. bloody wish i had gone for it now looking at those stats (i didnt fancy standing in the rain outside government buildings at 4am)
The best they can manage for me now is the Garda Reserve, where i risk my life for no pay. but im actually really looking forward to it.
my background check should be completed very soon...hope they dont find out about that mars bar when i was 5
The best they can manage for me now is the Garda Reserve, where i risk my life for no pay. but im actually really looking forward to it.
my background check should be completed very soon...hope they dont find out about that mars bar when i was 5
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Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
It's "only" 7 in the semi-state - how did they fall behind?the spoofer wrote:Most places I know pay for either 4 or 5 and after that your on welfare.Dave Cahill wrote:Whats the rate of sick leave in the private sector?
And it's a rolling 12 months period, so the clock is not reset to 0 on 1st Jan of each year.
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Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
What... Another chrystalnacht ??sheepshagger wrote:Don't get me started.
Its amazing how all of this progaganda is emerging just as Biffo prepares to dig the knife into everyone other than his own kind...
Look behind populist the soundbites contained in the report summary, and relied upon exclusively by the media, at the real picture. A comparison with private sector sick leave can easily be carried out using electronic information stored on the Social Welfare IT systems. But its convenient to ignore such readily available information, that could be sourced over the space of a weekend, in order to scapegoat a group of individuals.
Most of us who put in the effort, and have done so for many years, have a complete and utter pain in the b*%&!x with the bullshite that passes for fact at this stage.
Those dealing with the public have faced a huge increase in aggressive behaviour directed toward them, as a result of this concerted media campaign. In the private sector the aggressor would be told to leave, and not come back. In the public sector, staff are expected to take it and turn the other cheek.
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Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
Equality legislation applies equally to the private sector so that point doesn't provide any justification. I agree with you that the manner of presentation of the information is sometimes suspect but there's no doubting that in this country we have about 100,000 too many public servants, a sizeable majority of whom are grossly overpaid.Dave Cahill wrote:It should also be bourne in mind that the public service has more older people than any other employer, is required under law to hire people who may be susceptible to recurring illness, and, despite the ESRI saying that being a Guard is equivalent employment to being a security guard in Tesco, some jobs in the public service are considerably more dangerous than any in the private sector.
I just can't agree with any of that. Anyone who has regular contact with the public service in this country knows that the overwhelming preponderance of organs of state are horifically inefficient, lazy and unhelpful. How often do we see State-run offices or telephone lines that are only available between the hours of 11 and 4 or something equally ridiculous!? Until recently, I worked in the same building as a State IT Department and I can honestly swear that all they ever did was sit around in their canteen stuffing their fat faces, pausing occasionally to gather around someone's computer and look at the latest hilarious clip on YouTube.CRAZYDAVE wrote:What... Another chrystalnacht ??sheepshagger wrote:Don't get me started.
Its amazing how all of this progaganda is emerging just as Biffo prepares to dig the knife into everyone other than his own kind...
Look behind populist the soundbites contained in the report summary, and relied upon exclusively by the media, at the real picture. A comparison with private sector sick leave can easily be carried out using electronic information stored on the Social Welfare IT systems. But its convenient to ignore such readily available information, that could be sourced over the space of a weekend, in order to scapegoat a group of individuals.
Most of us who put in the effort, and have done so for many years, have a complete and utter pain in the b*%&!x with the bullshite that passes for fact at this stage.
Those dealing with the public have faced a huge increase in aggressive behaviour directed toward them, as a result of this concerted media campaign. In the private sector the aggressor would be told to leave, and not come back. In the public sector, staff are expected to take it and turn the other cheek.
For many of us in the private sector, it's not uncommon to have to work until 11 or 12 at night for nothing extra in return save for the respect of our employers and the satisfaction of a job well done. If public sector employees were expected to work on such terms, the country would grind to a standstill with industrial action. We need a fundamental shift in attitude in Ireland and a radical restructuring of public sector benefits. We need an end to excessive overtime (if it takes you until 7 or 8 in the evening to get the work done, just f***ing well do it and be thankful that you have a steady job while so many people in this country struggle to make ends meet); an end to ridiculous expenses (why the hell should someone be entitled to 20 or 30 quid extra just because they have to leave the office for a couple of hours!?); and an end to the mammoth pension cost which is crippling the Irish economy.
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Re: Civil (selfserving) servants
tackle-bag wrote:I just can't agree with any of that. Anyone who has regular contact with the public service in this country knows that the overwhelming preponderance of organs of state are horifically inefficient, lazy and unhelpful. Most of the private sector companies I have had the misfortune to deal with recently could be classified in the same way, telecomms and banks.. Pathethic customer service ethos How often do we see State-run offices or telephone lines that are only available between the hours of 11 and 4 or something equally ridiculous!? Most have a 9:30 to 5:30 policyUntil recently, I worked in the same building as a State IT Department and I can honestly swear that all they ever did was sit around in their canteen stuffing their fat faces, pausing occasionally to gather around someone's computer and look at the latest hilarious clip on YouTube.Name and shame them, if you feel so aggrieved. Tell your employer that you refuse to work there again... Better still organise your co-employees and together tell your employer that you'll never work there again. Perhaps this will save the State another few hundred grand from the "external consultancy/support" budget.
For many of us in the private sector, it's not uncommon to have to work until 11 or 12 at night for nothing extra in return save for the respect of our employers and the satisfaction of a job well done.If we all worked that way we'd be called slaves. I can understand working late to protect your jobs, but only "for respect". puleease who are you kidding. What bonuses and other perks did you get for working late ? If public sector employees were expected to work on such terms, the country would grind to a standstill with industrial action. We need a fundamental shift in attitude in Ireland and a radical restructuring of public sector benefits. We need an end to excessive overtime (if it takes you until 7 or 8 in the evening to get the work done, just f***ing well do it Many do, regularly, and also work weekend for no exta pay and be thankful that you have a steady job while so many people in this country struggle to make ends meet) another stereotype; an end to ridiculous expenses (why the hell should someone be entitled to 20 or 30 quid extra just because they have to leave the office for a couple of hours!?); and an end to the mammoth pension cost which is crippling the Irish economy. Where's the yawn emoticon when you need it
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First off, you've made the mistake of generally assuming that my arguments have to be based on some suggestion that the private sector is magnificently efficient and diligent. I completely agree that a huge number of private enterprises offer shocking customer service. The fact that most banks are only open from 10-4 is an absolute disgrace in my opinion. They should be operational from 8am to 7pm so that people aren't constantly nipping out of work (thereby spreading the inefficiency) to pay their rent etc.CRAZYDAVE wrote:tackle-bag wrote:I just can't agree with any of that. Anyone who has regular contact with the public service in this country knows that the overwhelming preponderance of organs of state are horifically inefficient, lazy and unhelpful. Most of the private sector companies I have had the misfortune to deal with recently could be classified in the same way, telecomms and banks.. Pathethic customer service ethos How often do we see State-run offices or telephone lines that are only available between the hours of 11 and 4 or something equally ridiculous!? Most have a 9:30 to 5:30 policyUntil recently, I worked in the same building as a State IT Department and I can honestly swear that all they ever did was sit around in their canteen stuffing their fat faces, pausing occasionally to gather around someone's computer and look at the latest hilarious clip on YouTube.Name and shame them, if you feel so aggrieved. Tell your employer that you refuse to work there again... Better still organise your co-employees and together tell your employer that you'll never work there again. Perhaps this will save the State another few hundred grand from the "external consultancy/support" budget.
For many of us in the private sector, it's not uncommon to have to work until 11 or 12 at night for nothing extra in return save for the respect of our employers and the satisfaction of a job well done.If we all worked that way we'd be called slaves. I can understand working late to protect your jobs, but only "for respect". puleease who are you kidding. What bonuses and other perks did you get for working late ? If public sector employees were expected to work on such terms, the country would grind to a standstill with industrial action. We need a fundamental shift in attitude in Ireland and a radical restructuring of public sector benefits. We need an end to excessive overtime (if it takes you until 7 or 8 in the evening to get the work done, just f***ing well do it Many do, regularly, and also work weekend for no exta pay and be thankful that you have a steady job while so many people in this country struggle to make ends meet) another stereotype; an end to ridiculous expenses (why the hell should someone be entitled to 20 or 30 quid extra just because they have to leave the office for a couple of hours!?); and an end to the mammoth pension cost which is crippling the Irish economy. Where's the yawn emoticon when you need it
As to State offices being open from 9.30 to 5.30, I would say the following. Firstly, that's not correct in my experience. To take just a few examples which I encounter regularly, the Dublin District Court office is only open from 10.30 to 4 (and very often closes early); the Four Courts information desk is open from 10.30 to 3.30; the Central Office of the High Court is open from 10 to 4.30. Second of all, even if your assessment of the regular hours is correct, it's still a much shorter period that we can and should expect of an efficient public service.
The IT Department I mentioned simply operated out of the same building, I wasn't working for the same organisation at all. As such, any complaint I could have made would have carried little weight.
In terms of other general stuff, I've never received so much as a cent of overtime or of any bonus in my entire life. I'm now self-employed and making considerably less than the average public sector worker. I don't mind the fact that I have to work harder for less money. I just wish that State employees would realise that they're on to a good thing and stop obstructing cost-cutting measures that are necessary to stop the country from going bankrupt.
"Hickie, scorching down the wing... God, I've missed saying that!" - Ryle Nugent