Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on dole
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Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on dole
A BUSINESSMAN told yesterday how he was "gobsmacked" when he offered a permanent job to two workers who had been unemployed for two years -- but both turned it down because they get more in handouts from the State.
David Lawlor, of Watermark Technology in Citywest, Dublin, and who owns the distribution rights to Gaggia commercial coffee machines in Ireland and the UK, was offering a job in maintenance for an annual wage of €28,000.
A person on the national minimum wage of €7.65 an hour would earn €15,912.
First,the businessman offered the position to a Romanian national who has been living here for a number of years. But he quit after just one day.
"He's married, with kids, and is renting," said Mr Lawlor, adding that the man qualifies for multiple types of social welfare.
"He'd been working for a rival but had been let go two years ago. He started on the Tuesday and on the Wednesday he said he felt he was entitled to more money.
"He said he'd get more money on the dole."
Mr Lawlor had pointed out to the man that he could also earn overtime, at one-and-a-half times the rate, as well as have the use of a company van for incidental personal use.
"A lot of these guys are handy, so they do nixers; they have that on top of their dole."
The following week Mr Lawlor offered the job to a Filipino national, who, he said, had the skills required and had done the "best ever interview". He had been living here for several years, had four children and drove an "06 or 07 car".
During the interview Mr Lawlor -- who employs 10 people -- discovered the man had been involved in an industrial dispute with his previous company and had been unable to find another job.
"He was in a situation where no one would give him a job. But I figured that I would be able to manage the situation because I work very closely with my employees.
"But he went home and the next day he called and told me his wife said they would get more money on the dole."
Mr Lawlor said he was frustrated that, despite receiving almost 300 CVs and offering the job twice, he still could not find someone.
Secure
"It's a good job, it's secure, and it's well over the minimum wage. Yet we can't fill it.
"We've got people here who don't want to work, they don't want to be worse off (than on the dole)."
He said the new Government must tackle the issue for the sake of the economy.
"There are politicians here but they're not living in the real world where there are real problems. And until they fix those problems, we're going to go nowhere.
''If anybody out there is listening, I want them to know this is a real issue."
Figures supplied by the Revenue show that a single person earning €28,000 would net €23,565.36 with basic tax credits. This would rise to €23,924.88 for a medical card holder as they would pay 4pc Universal Social Charge (USC).
A married person on the same salary would have additional credits and would take home €25,215.36, rising to €25,574.88 if they hold a medical card and pay the reduced USC of 4pc.
The USC for non-medical card holders is 7pc for all earnings over €16,016.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 73644.html
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
Am I surprised ? No.
Am I shocked ? No. Although it is a shocking statistic.
Until the politicians in this country adopt a system of a 'Hand-up' as opposed to a 'Hand-out' then scroungers and wasters will choose the easy option every time.
Take the decision out of their hands, something this plank of a Taoiseach will not do anytime soon.
Am I shocked ? No. Although it is a shocking statistic.
Until the politicians in this country adopt a system of a 'Hand-up' as opposed to a 'Hand-out' then scroungers and wasters will choose the easy option every time.
Take the decision out of their hands, something this plank of a Taoiseach will not do anytime soon.
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- Shane Jennings
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
Is that an IBEC press release? Perhaps the employer should offer the job to a single person living at home instead of moaning that people relying on the money to feed a family don't want to work. On €28K a married person takes home €2,101.28 per month, assuming no medical card. That's a little over €525 per week to cover rent (or mortgage), food and all other bills as well as any child related expenses.
If the social welfare payments are providing them with more than this then saying they don't want to work is a bit of an exaggeration.
What does he mean by "A lot of these guys are handy, so they do nixers; they have that on top of their dole." Is he tarring everyone with the one big black economy brush or actively encouraging his employees to look for a bit of undeclared earnings on the side?
Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
If the social welfare payments are providing them with more than this then saying they don't want to work is a bit of an exaggeration.
What does he mean by "A lot of these guys are handy, so they do nixers; they have that on top of their dole." Is he tarring everyone with the one big black economy brush or actively encouraging his employees to look for a bit of undeclared earnings on the side?
Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
Is that a serious question?Broken Wing wrote: Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
It seems you're hemp underpants are chaffing a little too much. Send the blighters too work.Broken Wing wrote:Is that an IBEC press release? Perhaps the employer should offer the job to a single person living at home instead of moaning that people relying on the money to feed a family don't want to work. On €28K a married person takes home €2,101.28 per month, assuming no medical card. That's a little over €525 per week to cover rent (or mortgage), food and all other bills as well as any child related expenses.
If the social welfare payments are providing them with more than this then saying they don't want to work is a bit of an exaggeration.
What does he mean by "A lot of these guys are handy, so they do nixers; they have that on top of their dole." Is he tarring everyone with the one big black economy brush or actively encouraging his employees to look for a bit of undeclared earnings on the side?
Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
The whole Social Welfare system needs a radical overhaul from unemployment to disability to invalidity payments. It's unfortunate that this exercise wasn't done when there was little excuse for those who could work, not to & we had almost full employment in this country.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
The exact same sh!t went on in the 1980's. Either it doesn't make financial sense for the person being offered the job (in which case it's the system thats' at fault) or they're working the "black" economy (in which case they should join the string section of the Kilfenora Ceilí Band). As pay rates drop, the gap between work and dole (with the additional benefits) narrows to such an extent that it becomes a disincentive to work.sheepshagger wrote:Is that a serious question?Broken Wing wrote: Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
If the prospective employer really wanted to get their own back they'd report the candidate to the Dept of Social Protection. He/she'd lose the dole because he/she was not "Genuinely Seeking Work" !
Problem is that for every genuine employer, there are countless others that will operate on the basis of "under the counter payments". Historically, the problem is that people offered these type of "jobs" are reluctant to shop any scumbag employer, who makes such an offer. Welcome back to recession (the 1980's fiddles revisited).
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
Yes.sheepshagger wrote:Is that a serious question?Broken Wing wrote: Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
There's not much point in being disapproving of people who won't take a job that those being disapproving wouldn't take.
I'm doing the sums now and I think I could afford to work for that provided my mortgage doesn't go up, I'm hawklike in watching the electricity and gas bills, I watch my rugby at home (thankfully I've no TV bills to pay, sometimes with a cheap beer or two and neither I nor Mrs. Wing get sick.
If being on the dole meant I didn't have to be worrying about energy prices going up because of trouble in Libya, or the ECB increasing my mortgage or the USC digging deeper into my pocket then maybe that'd be a better option, financially, than working for €28K.
Can you honestly argue against it? Sure, there's a pride in going to work every day rather than milling around at home but what cost pride?
Of course this should not be taken to mean I'm in favour of a social welfare system that makes it more profitable not to work. I was hoping the current economic crisis would mean cuts in welfare. After all, those payments come out of my pocket.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
I earn less than that and I generally do a 50 hour week. I did the dole thing for eight months and I'd much rather be doing what I'm doing now even though the money is cr@p.sheepshagger wrote:Is that a serious question?Broken Wing wrote: Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
Nail on head. Should have been done over the past decade but Bertie wouldn't have wanted to do the 'dirty' work.sarah_lennon wrote:The whole Social Welfare system needs a radical overhaul from unemployment to disability to invalidity payments. It's unfortunate that this exercise wasn't done when there was little excuse for those who could work, not to & we had almost full employment in this country.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
Bertie had to keep pushing it up to stay in power.Hickiefan wrote:Nail on head. Should have been done over the past decade but Bertie wouldn't have wanted to do the 'dirty' work.sarah_lennon wrote:The whole Social Welfare system needs a radical overhaul from unemployment to disability to invalidity payments. It's unfortunate that this exercise wasn't done when there was little excuse for those who could work, not to & we had almost full employment in this country.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
I think if you look back you could cite the annual rate of inflation running at over 5%, for up to five years in succession, as one of the reasons why the rate of SW payments never dropped, in the late 90's early 00's. Rather than address the inflation issue, the "solution" was to throw money at the unemployed (including the 3.8% that were/are unemployable).sarah_lennon wrote:The whole Social Welfare system needs a radical overhaul from unemployment to disability to invalidity payments. It's unfortunate that this exercise wasn't done when there was little excuse for those who could work, not to & we had almost full employment in this country.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
They actually take home €1,905.94 if they're the lower earner in the marriage.Broken Wing wrote:On €28K a married person takes home €2,101.28 per month, assuming no medical card.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
D'Arse wrote:I earn less than that and I generally do a 50 hour week. I did the dole thing for eight months and I'd much rather be doing what I'm doing now even though the money is cr@p.sheepshagger wrote:Is that a serious question?Broken Wing wrote: Hands up who'd take a job paying €28K per year.
I worked for just over 28k for somewhere just over 50 hours a week most weeks and was glad to have this as it was a whole pile better than being driven mad on the dole for 5 months with no job to get up for in the morning.
I dont want to have a go at everyone on the dole cos i know its negative craic and reckon most people on the dole do want to work. We need to do something to make it more worthwhile to work than to not work.
The bulk of people who are cohabbiting with childeren if this was the second job in the house (especially if the 28k is the lower paid job) you should be able to service a mortgage and still live unless you bought an overvalued overpriced house which may not have been the best plan in the world anyway
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
My figure was based on dividing the figure in the original article by 12.honeyec wrote:They actually take home €1,905.94 if they're the lower earner in the marriage.Broken Wing wrote:On €28K a married person takes home €2,101.28 per month, assuming no medical card.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
If, if and should doesn't cover a lot of people's situations. It clearly didn't cover the situation of the two individuals offered the job.Seosamh wrote:The bulk of people who are cohabbiting with childeren if this was the second job in the house (especially if the 28k is the lower paid job) you should be able to service a mortgage and still live unless you bought an overvalued overpriced house which may not have been the best plan in the world anyway
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
Apparently, only 3% of people on social welfare can achieve this amount. you need 4 kids, to be in rented accomodation and some other cr@p. at the end of the daythe fact that unemployment benifit is anywhere near close to being an incentive NOT to work is wrong. However, a large aleration to this will effectively impoverish and no doubt starve/freeze some quite elderly people to death! What do you do?
EDIT: I do want change here, just worried about the ramifications of slashing for the sake of expedience
EDIT: I do want change here, just worried about the ramifications of slashing for the sake of expedience
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
One of the reasons it doesnt cover a lot of people situations is because a lot of people locked themselves into stupidly high mortgages on the assumption that all would stay rosey forever and that the value of there propety would just keep rising.Broken Wing wrote:If, if and should doesn't cover a lot of people's situations. It clearly didn't cover the situation of the two individuals offered the job.Seosamh wrote:The bulk of people who are cohabbiting with childeren if this was the second job in the house (especially if the 28k is the lower paid job) you should be able to service a mortgage and still live unless you bought an overvalued overpriced house which may not have been the best plan in the world anyway
I acknowledge this is not the case with ALL people but from talking to people and listening to media coverage it was the way with a lot of people
Last edited by Seosamh on March 28th, 2011, 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Workers turn down €28,000 job because they 'get more on
"Mr Lawlor said he was frustrated that, despite receiving almost 300 CVs and offering the job twice, he still could not find someone."
The story really says something about what that guys thinks a good CV is! 300 cvs and he picks the 2 duffs.
I dont fancy his chances of picking any winners in Chelthenham this week!
The story really says something about what that guys thinks a good CV is! 300 cvs and he picks the 2 duffs.
I dont fancy his chances of picking any winners in Chelthenham this week!
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